The "interviewer" in this case is Armen Victorian, who has written for The Circular previously and who introduces himself as Kasaba Ntumba. Unaware of Ntumba's true identity, Schnabel gradually opens up to this apparently sympathetic caller.
It is only fair to say that Schnabel now denies everything which is contained herein and telephoned me some days later in a state of scarcely suppressed agitation to claim that he had just been ~winding up ~ Victorian (whom he had never met or talked to, apart from a very brief introductory phone call a short while before on the same day). Readers of The Circular will have to judge for themselves whether or not this is the case.
One may justifiably ask why someone would ever reveal well- hidden secrets to a total stranger at such short notice. I can only say that Victorian has achieved similar coups time and again in speaking, by telephone to top intelligence officers in the U.S.A., in South Africa and in other countries and these people have frequently regretted what they have let slip. If Schnabel had been "winding up" Victorian, it is inconceivable that he would then ring me up and come clean. Apart from anything else he never normally calls me, and of all the hoaxes I 've known --not just circular ones-- no hoaxer has ever once sprung forward saying "it's all a hoax, don't believe a word I just said." Double bluff? Well, if you believe that, you'll believe anything !
The acid test, of course, is the tape recording itself rather than the transcript. Listen to this and, as with the recent "Dianagate" tapes, one soon discards the notion that the responses are contrived or false. It is to be regretted that information has been obtained in this way but in the face of a ruthless and sustained campaign to deceive the public and CCCS this is amply justified.
For people who scoff at the idea that intelligence agencies have any interests in the circles phenomenon, I can only say that when in Washington, D. C., last April I was taken specifically to meet four charming gentlemen from the CIA who made no secret about their profession and also their interest in the circles and the UFO phenomenon. This is entirely consistent with the content of this interview.
Vic: Mr Schnabel?
Vic: This is Mr Ntumba.
Sch: Oh, hi. Hallo.
Vic: I'm sorry to bother you at this time of the night. I was...now then, I was speaking to your friend.
Vic: I was, I was speaking to your friend a few hours ago, Mr Robert Irving.
Sch: Oh yeah, Rob Irving, yeah.
Vic: That's right; and I understand that you won the second prize in proving that, eventually, these, eh, circles are not really what the others think are made by 7-feet green men. And they are very much in an earth bound situation.
Sch: Yes, yes, I wouldn't have to prove anything really.
Vic: My congratulations - [laughs] - you did a good job.
Sch: Thank you very much, thank you very much.
Vic: Have you published anything?
Sch: Yes, eh, I have published a few things....
Vic: In magazines or newspapers - or private or.. ?
Sch: Well, yeah, I published something just this past weekend.
Sch: In the Independent Magazine - that was a collaboration with....
Vic: Hey! You have an American accent!
Vic: You have an American accent.
Sch: Yes, I'm originally from the States, that's true.
Vic: Which part?
Sch: I'm from the East Coast.
Vic: East Coast. New York part?
Sch: In Virginia.
Vic: Virginia, a beautiful part of the country.
Sch: Yes it is, thank you very much.
Vic: Beautiful part of the country. One thing. . . One thing that Mr Irving said to me that I was a bit puzzled. He said that he works at a group of intelligence . . ., or something like that.
Sch: Oh, he did?
Vic: He did.
End of part 2
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