SUBJECT: NATTERING ABOUT UFO SHOWS FILE: UFO878 PART - 1 Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 1 of 45 Subj: TV Productions To: All From: Tom Mickus Date: 10/15/88 09:18:04 PM I'd be interested to hear people's reactions towards the TV expose's...what did you think? [CONF #4 Msg #1 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#]n Conf UFOlogy Msg: 2 of 45 Subj: UFO TV Productions To: All From: (#1) Date: 10/24/88 12:51:30 PM Recently there have been two prominent TV productions which have devoted all or part of their time to a "serious" look at contemporary UFO activity. "UNSOLVED MYSTERIES" approximately 2 wks ago featured the so called Gulf Breeze, Florida sightings for further investigation. If you are not familiar with this now famous series of UFO Sightings, please refer to the UFOlogy File Area, where one can find close to a dozen related files on the matter. In my opinion, the producers of the show didn't do half bad a job in examining the matter. They presented positions of both pro and con, with most of the focus being on the former. In their Florida studio, they had gathered roughly 100 people from all walks of life who said that they saw something which they could not explain, and was identical to that photographed by "Mr. Ed" in anyone of his over a do zen photographs. The show focuse d its attention on both the photographs and video tape of the UFO in action. The authenticity of the photographs was of course the issue that was dwelt upon. Were they faked, or were they really the pictures of something up in the sky? Most people, myself included, left the program with the strong feeling that the pictures were really those of a UFO. Where we go from there, of course takes us on even shakier ground. We don't know who pilots the craft, assuming it is piloted, and what its origin is. Why it presented itself almost exclusively to the Gulf Breeze resident "Mr. Ed", is also not known. While the "UNSOLVED MYSTERIES" program left us with more questions than it answered, in my opinion it did do a half credible job in at least laying out the facts of the matter, trying to get more than one opinion, and in not over sensationalizing an already sensational incident. For that they deserve credit, and the wide exposure the program received may also lead us to more facts, and the uncoverin g of other similar type incidents which eventually result in some definitive explanations as to what is really going on. In the next message, I'll be looking at the "UFO COVERUP - LIVE!" TV production which aired a little over a week ago. -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #2 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 3 of 45 Subj: ufo`s To: All From: Enzo Cofini (#17) Date: 10/24/88 04:47:39 PM Hi well Im new here and I have seen both of those shows mentioned about unsolved mysteries an d the UFO live show. This wednesday unsolved mysteries looks at the ghost phenomena. I am not quite sure of what to beleive from those two shows because the whole town could be running a hoax.. why doesnt mr ed come out?? and there is another theory that i read from a book, it could be possible and sounds realistic and it stated that ufo`s might not come from another planet but from our but it is being flow by TIME travellers coming back which could explain why they just disa ppear so quickly. Are there any people out there on this bbs that have claimed to been abducted?? let me know .. DO YOU beleive in ufos??.................... [CONF #4 Msg #3 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 4 of 45 Subj: UFO TV Productions To: Enzo Cofini (#17) From: (#1) Date: 10/25/88 04:59:44 PM A whole town pulling off a hoax?? Organizationally speaking that would be difficult enough, but why would a town full of pr ominent and well to do people open themselves up to possibilit y of ridicule over "Flying Saucers"? I think this is proof rather that the incident is not a hoax, meaning they DID see something. What that something is, who controls it...is the real underlying question. -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #4 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 5 of 45 Subj: Discussion To: All From: (#1) Date: 10/25/88 05:15:09 PM Its my fervent desire to "elevate" the discussion of UFO phenomena beyond the juveni le level which it is often r elegated to. If you consider yourself basically unknowledeable in this field except for what you've heard on morning talk shows and in B movies, then I STRONGLY SUGGEST you get a hold of a couple recent books on the subject. Speculation is fine, but I want people to at least be operating off of some amount of written material. Also see the File Library. There is close to 250 files connected with various aspects of the UFO phenom. EDUCATE your self as best as you can, so that you can have a grasp of the subject and then be able to participate in reasoned and intelligent debate. You don't have to be an expert, just aware of where UFOlogy is at today. Its gone beyond seeing "Flying Saucers" in the sky. Lastly, when composing your statements....PLEASE use proper punctuation, capitalization, spelling, etc., where warranted. This makes them easier to read, and won't make your messages look like some 10-year old entered them (even if that's your real age!). In other words, try to be neat and organiz ed, even if that's not your true nature. I'm not after perfection, but if your [P]osts are going to be in the Public Record (which they are, on a BBS) then they should at least be composed with reasonable care. -Sysop [CONF #4 Msg #5 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 6 of 45 Subj: Re: UFO TV Productions To: Sysop From: Richard Wakefield (#19) Date: 11/01/88 03:46:32 PM Hi, Tom. I saw it too. I let a message elsewhere (not used to p oking around your board yet). All I can say was it was a fake from beginning to end. The stuff that was presented there has already been written on and show to be false. The interesting thing I noted was the EVERYONE, except the three skeptics at the end, READ CUE CARDS!!! Even the "experts" were reading the cards. If they have an experience to tell, then why do they need it written down ahead of time to reread? The three skeptics did not read cards. They were mor e credible. Now I wonder why Phil Klass was not there? He has wri tten several books on UFOs and the forgery behind many of them he has studied (Tom, check out the Promethius Books list I sent you, should come anyday now!). If they have aliens as guests in the US why not tell us? Why so much hush hush on such an important item. If we are not alone in the universe then let us se them!!! JRW [CONF #4 Msg #6 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 7 of 45 Subj: Re: UFO TV Productions To: Richard Wakefield (#19) From: < SYSOP> (#1) Date: 11/02/88 03:14:34 PM Richard, first off thanks for sending me the Prometheus Book List...I haven't received as of yet, but will let you know when it comes in. I think I know which book you are referring to when you speak of Klass. I don't know why he wasn't on the program, was he asked? Perhaps he was busy fishing on the Potomac or something. I'm glad you watched the broadcast. You like me probably noticed how fast things were moving.. .the guests were all given short shrift, a few minutes at bes t...and why? The program was LIVE...and you can tell the producers we're trying to make a "slick" production as evidenced by the continual reliance on glitz and satellite hook-ups and the rest... What I'm leading to is that, the use of a teleprompter (not cue cards...see UFOlogy File #253) was there more for the benefit of the nervous producers than the people interviewed. This by itself does NOT indicate that the information presented was therefore suspect or fabricated. To me, that is a wea k argument. By use of a teleprompter, the length of the program (UFO Coverup - LIVE) could be timed more exactly, as well as eleviate any nervousness on the part of interviewees who might be nervous on LIVE TV and do something unexpected. Budd Hopkins, an UFO abduction "advocate" spoke quite confidently when it was his turn...and he didn't need a teleprompter to aid his confidence. The same is true with the anti-UFO group towards the end, who apparently didn't need a teleprompter either. Cue cards, teleprompters ...whatever technological gimmicks that are used, do not one way or the other have any bearing on the FACTS. If you are going to challenge what they say (something I encourage)...then lets challenge the content of what is said. In regards to the sensibility of keeping the whole thing secret from the people (assuming its all or part true)...that is certainly another question worth asking. On the 50th anniversary of the War of the World's broad cast, perhaps the fear engendered by that radio play was enough to make those in higher levels wary of "prematurely" releasing such information. This is just one factor of many that they no doubt considered, rightly or wrongly. In a number of the UFOlogy files, you'll find all sorts of theories as to why such a course of action was taken (again, assuming its true...a big step I know). -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #7 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 8 of 45 Subj: Upcoming Interview To: All From: (#1 ) Date: 11/02/ 88 05:40:51 PM I'm pleased to announce that this coming Nov.6th, I will be conducting an interview with one of Canada's foremost authorities in UFOlogy. The transcript I hope to have in the File Library either late Sunday night, or early Monday morning. It promises to be an extremely fascinating exchange. -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #8 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 9 of 45 Subj: Interview questions To: All From: Joe Holland (#66) Date: 11/05/88 11:46:06 PM Well , here are some questions: 1.I get a wide range of response from people when they begin to get exposed to UFO information, ranging from "seeking the space brothers", to blandness, to paranoia about the aliens acts and intentions. Do you think that the aliens are a threat, and if so how much of a threat? -- 2.What estimate do you make of the relationship between the military and MJ-12 and the aliens? Is this a tolerable working relationship, or is it out of control, with the aliens doing as they damn please, and we can't do anything about it? -- 3.I keep getting indications the aliens are preparing the abductees to act or do something at some future time, and they are being programmed with the knowledge of what to do, this knowledge to emerge later. Like Bud Hopkins said they were shown a box, that they would know what to do with later. Have you come accross this? What is this future time, and what is supposed to happen? A natural disaster? A n invasion/takeover? -- 4.How many types of aliens are th ere? And what are they like: interfering, noninterfering, good, or bad? -- 5.Do the aliens have any spiritual beleifs that you have come accross? (I certainly would not expect theirs to be like ours). -- 6.Do you have any independent impressions of the abduction experiences, different from Bud Hopkins and his traumatic insertions of the nose implants? Is there another kind of abduction experience, from which we might get a different impression? Do any abductees think they have a good re lationship wit h the aliens? [CONF #4 Msg #9 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 10 of 45 Subj: Re: UFOlogist Interview To: Joe Holland (#66) From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/07/88 01:20:12 AM Joe...I'm happy to announce that the interview has been completed, and YOUR questions asked as promised, although not in sequencial order. The exchange lasted for about 2 1/4 hours on tape...and is more conversational style than a formal type interview. Alls that is left for me to do at this time is to transcribe it onto disk format, so that all of you can read it, and evaluate it for yourselves. It was an extremely interesting exchange, and was quite productive, in my mind at least. Be forewarned however, much of the content IS controversial to say the least....but I never promised anyone that Pi would avoid controversy! I'm hoping that in 2 or 3 days I can have the interview transcribed. Be patient, for as I've mentioned elsewhere....it WILL be wor th the wait. -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #10 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 11 of 45 Subj: UFOs & Public To: All From: Brad Langton (#14) Date: 11/09/88 05:25:55 PM For the last few weeks, there has been an upsurge of popular interest on UFOs in the media. Along with this interest has been the usual snickering from those who have long ago decided that UFOs are flaky. My point is simply this: If UFOs are in fact real, which I believe they are, the gr eatest interest would likely be directed at discrediting those who make claims on them. I say this because that is what history seems to be teaching us. Despite a good deal of highly probable reports from good sources, the government(s) appear to desire that the whole topic be set to ridicule. Why might this be happening and for what reasons? Is Lear and his ilk right or are we all making a silk purse out of a sow's ear out of what I will coin as "buffism." The state of being a buff... supporter, enthusiast, etc. It would be interesting t o see what m ight account for a coverup if one exists, likewise, what would account for the public certainty that UFOs may in fact be real??? I'll be interested in heraing your replies. Brad Langton [CONF #4 Msg #11 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 12 of 45 Subj: UFO's are they believable? No.... To: Sysop From: Richard Wakefield (#19) Date: 11/10/88 08:51:21 PM Well, Tom, I had a long reply ready, but it seems to have disappeared from by disk (sound of Twilight zone in back ground :->). But anyway. Essentialy, I can't accept what was on that program. Teleprompting or not, it seemed damn phony to me. If there are aliens housed in the white house, how has it been uble to bhave been covered up for almost 30 years, and how many administrations???? No. I just can't accept it. Besides, it is one of the biggest questions we humans have is "Are we alone!!!!????" This will be of paramount importance to humans ~rif there really are aliens! Lets see them!!!! JRW [CONF #4 M sg #12 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 13 of 45 Subj: UFO coverup To: All From: Paul Munson (#38) Date: 11/11/88 03:19:00 PM I know the special ran almost a month ago, but i haven't gotten around to voicing my comments on it yet. Some of the information was believeable and quite fascinating, but the majority, in my opinion, was a load of crap. Aliens as guests of the U.S government living in Arizona? That's ridiculous. However, the Gu lf Breeze sightings seem genuine, as d o most of the other reports. I can't believe the Alien-guest nonsense though. Anyway, gotta go. TTYL PM [CONF #4 Msg #13 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 14 of 45 Subj: Guests at the White House To: Paul Munson (#38) From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/11/88 04:36:48 PM Obviously it sounds ri diculous. This coupled with the "strawberry ice-cream" reference, m ade the whole thing look like one big joke...on US the viewer. Some of those views you will find echoed in FENWICK.TXT (UFOlogy file #257), the fantastic claim that the aliens are here....THEY LIVE! Since most of us are "out-siders", its a claim that we can hardly verify on our own. However there are some people reputed to be in the know, who do know what's really going on. Those are the people that should be talking....and apparently some are. I'm curious Paul, what did you find believeable in th e show? You didn't mention any specifics. And what is YOUR explanation....Its easy to pick a part the claims and say that its all garbage and that the people are a bunch of wackos....but HOW do you explain it? Take your pick...UFO's, abductions...implants... -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #14 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 15 of 45 Subj: FENWICK.TXT To: All From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/14/88 11:34:00 AM Its been over a week now since I did the inte rview...and I'm still trying to digest and evaluate the information that was said. I've certainly got opinions about a number of things said, and I hope to come out with them here soon. For those who've READ the text....I'm going to list a number of claims which I feel are by far the most significant. No commentary from me on all of them yet...but it will come. Here's a brief list of some of them, in no particular order of ranking.... (1) - Adolf Hitler was "programmed " by the EBEs to star t WW II... (2) - JFK was similarly influenced to drag the Russians into a nuclear conflagration...he failed...and he was killed by people influenced by the EBEs... (3) - WW III is inevitable according to the EBE "Master Plan", and will commmence in 1990 and end lead to nuclear war in 1999. (4) - The U.S. Gov't has had an "agreement" with the EBEs since 1975, and they have been heavily influencing U.S. policy t owards them, if not totally controlling it. (5 ) - What you read in "The National Enquirer" is for the most part TRUE when it comes to stories dealing with UFOs. Same for "The Weekly World News", but NOT with the other tabloids... (6) - Phil Klass is a CIA "asset". He is fed information by them, and does their bidding." (7) - Author W.A. Harbinson is also at least formerly an NSA operative, and through his three books "Genesis", "Revelation", and "The Light of Eden"...he has revealed m ore than just fiction. .. (8) - Steven Speilberg has two close associates (former schoolmates), who have been heavily influencing him to produce and direct "friendly E.T type" movies to promote the FALSE perception that the EBEs are benevolent. (9) - Their is one surviving member of the original MJ-12 group. He is elderly (inbetween 78-82 yrs) and has important notes from the original meetings in his possession. MUFON, and other UFOl ogists are aware of who he might be...and ar e trying to secure these papers. The "old man" as he's called, originally agreed to hand them over, but reneged later, saying "What good would it do?" (10) - Part of the 1975 "agreement" included an exchange of technology to the Americans in return for their non-interference in the cattle mutilations, and for their not revealing the EBEs presence publicly... This is only a few of the "highlights". There is more. YES it is sensational, incredib le, outlandish, mi nd-boggling, unbelievable, crazy, etc. etc. etc! However this IS NOT the first time (nor the last I suspect) someone has said similar things. We MUST examine the claims and allegations within the interview transcript....on a case by case basis, that's all there is too it. Once that is done, then we'll have a better idea as to the overall veracity of the scenario as put forward by veteran UFOlogist Larry Fenwick. If you've already made up your mind on thi s subject...and what you see here disturbs you. The n let's hear your reaction. HOWEVER I do NOT want ANYONE commenting on the above who HAS NOT READ the actual transcript....that should be self-evident. -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #15 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 16 of 45 Subj: what To: All From: Enzo Cofini (#17) Date: 11/14/88 12:04:07 PM ...does EPE stand for? sorry for asking such a stupid question... [CONF #4 Msg #16 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 17 of 45 Subj: EBE (Extra-terrestrial Biol ogical Entity) To: Enzo Cofini (#17) From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/14/88 02:08:06 PM I don't know what EPE is...but I do know what an EBE is. Its just another way of classifying an alien entity. Instead of calling him an E.T. (which generally has a warm connotation due to the movie), some UFOlogists use EBE...Extra-terrestrial Biological Entity. However...the aliens..if they exist, and whatever they are...MAY be TBEs...Terrestri al Biological Entities. There are as you can expect, M ANY different lines of thinking on this. Some posit that the EBEs come from one of the close star systems of Zeta Reticuli....others think they are from Sirius B...or the Pleiades...etc. -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #17 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 18 of 45 Subj: Re: EBE (Extra-terrestrial Biological Entity) To: tom rickus From: Enzo Cofini (#17) Date: 11/14/88 05:43:34 PM Thanks alot ! When the sysop talks about having a nuclear war in 1990 does he mean against the aliens? t hat sounds a bit too kooky for me.... [CONF #4 Msg #18 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 19 of 45 Subj: Re: EBE (Extra-terrestrial Biological Entity) To: Enzo Cofini (#17) From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/14/88 06:38:59 PM Enzo...here are a couple of questions for you to ponder... (1) - Who is tom rickus? (2) - What is the name of the Sysop of this board? (3) - Where did you read about EPE? (4) - Where does it say that nuclear wa r will begin in 1990? (5) - Have you READ Fenwick.Txt? Conclusion: - Read Msg #15 again...then re-read Msg #5. If you are not prepared to take CARE in reading what you are looking at, or when commenting on texts you HAVEN'T even read....then you are wasting both your time and mine. -Tom Mickus [CONF #4 Msg #19 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 20 of 45 Subj: Hmmm To: All From: Brad Langton (#14) Date: 11/12/88 11: 04:55 PM Well... I've only recently gotten involved here, but as Sysop of Lambda, I feel compelled to make an entry... what if it turns out that there really IS an alien faction operating in our world... what if they have an agenda that includes our cooperation/subservience? If the aliens are here, and if half of what we've read from Lear et. al. is true... where does that leave us? On the other hand... suppose they are here and yet NOT malevolent... can there be any chance that an enlightened sharing betw een our cultures ids possible? I'll be interested in your replies. Brad Langto Sysop Paranet Lambda --- 716-377-3985 [CONF #4 Msg #20 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 21 of 45 Subj: "UFOlogists" To: All From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/14/88 09:12:56 PM Along with some of the more sensational revelations coming from the Mickus/Fenwick Interview...there was also quite a bit of interesting comments made by Fe nwick in regards to other UFOlogists. If these names are unfamiliar...then use the UFOlogy File Library resource area to brush up on some of them. Some of these people are at the forefront of UFOlogy in North America. Larry's comments, if true, provide a fascinating look at some of the personalities involved. I will highlight a few of them here. (1) Bill Moore, whom Fenwick says has the "biggest ego" in the field provided some very interesting comments regarding the MJ-12, Aquarius material. One of Moor e's key statements made according to Fenwick was that "Religion" would be most affected if the classified information was made known. (2) Bill Moore MAY have had an abduction experience as a child, and at that time MAY have had an implant inserted by the EBEs. (3) Tracy Torme apparently KNOWS EVERYTHING that Moore does about the content of the MJ-12, Project Aquarius documents. (4) Stanton Friedman...Canadian Nuclear Physicist based o ut of New Brunswick, also seems to know ALL of the classif ied material, but like Torme and Moore...he's not talking. (5) According to a conversation with Larry Fawcett (author of "Clear Intent")...what is to happen to the Earth in the future is NOT geological (ie. Earthquakes, Flooding, etc.)...which means that the nuclear holocaust option seems to be more likely. Again, these are only SOME of the claims that Larry Fenwick admitted to hearing in conversations with these very people. At this time, I cannot obviously ver ify whether they are all true or not. In time, I assume the aforementioned people will be responding in some fashion. When I or ParaNet finds out what their reaction is....I'll be sure to make the information available here, for anyone to examine. -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #21 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 22 of 45 Subj: Nazi Connection To: All From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/15/88 03:14:15 PM For those of you who shy away from "out- of-this-world" explanations for UFOs...what ab out the German Nazi hypothesis from W.W.II? Everyone is aware that the German scientists back then were the most advanced of any in world...evidenced by their use in the U.S. rocket and space program after the war, with the likes of people such as Werner Von Braun. Did the Nazi's create flying saucer like proto-types...which exist to this day in the hands of some other government? For more exploration along this line...please see V ESCO.TXT and WHATARE.UFO in the UFOlogy file library. They are both courtesy of one of our users, Al Pinto, who is doing research and investigation along this line. -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #22 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 23 of 45 Subj: Another Stupid Question To: Sysop From: Richard Burry (#42) Date: 11/15/88 06:42:05 PM Whats the difference between Extra-Terrestrial and Terrestrial. I can believe in UFO's although a lot of the stories are obviously faked for whatever reason. I can't believe they would want to play around{_ in our politi cs. If so for what purpose. If they did I do not think they would want to start a nuclear war. Again for what purpose. All the acts mentioned seemed agressive. I would imagine that with increased intelligence any being would become less aggressive. [CONF #4 Msg #23 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 24 of 45 Subj: Extra-terrestrials To: Richard Burry (#42) From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/15/88 07:34:49 PM Extra- terrestrials are beings or entities NOT from our planet ...but from out of our solar system or galaxy. Terrestrials WOULD refer to an earthly origin. As far as their intentions go...we're past the stage of mere speculation. There are all kinds of documented reports of "alien abductions" by people from all walks of life. And the things done to the people involved would NOT suggest that the aliens are very ethical creatures. They supposedly manipulate people's bodies without asking permission...and much of what they tell the abductees are out and out lie s. Needless to say, this paints a very disturbing portrait of them. So much for the "friendly ET" image. -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #24 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 25 of 45 Subj: geez To: Tom Mickus! From: Enzo Cofini (#17) Date: 11/15/88 07:47:09 PM Sorry for being wrong! I am not perfect... And it does mention nuclear war in msg 15 number 3! geez.... [CONF #4 Msg #25 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 26 of 45 Subj: Wrong again! To: Enzo Cofini (#17) From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/15/88 07:52:15 PM Enzo...this has nothing to do with being "perfect". I just don't appreciate the fast and loose style you've been exhibiting when making your posts. I expect people to at least take care when writing posts...and making sure their facts are right...especially in reference to other Posts. Nuclear war IS mentioned in Msg #15...but that's not what I was referring to...you said that nuclear war would occur in 1990...when act ually 1999 is the date that is mentioned. It's not my intention to blow this out of proportion...but you don't seem to be listening. -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #26 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 27 of 45 Subj: XT Purpose/Nuke/Politics...Ethics... To: Richard Burry From: Mike Vadera (#30) Date: 11/15/88 09:37:54 PM Yo Richard! Ok...about the XT's getting into politics etc... First of all, I am by no means an e xpert...but I will look at it from a sensible point o f view. Politics, seem to control our countries. If aliens want to control it, the ultimate purpose is to control us. By starting a nuclear war, they destroy us, and now have a planet to themselves...Maybe they are immune to Nuclear Toxic Waste...and radiation...or have technology/whatever to clear it up later. Any geography teacher can tell you that this planet is the most diverse of probably billions of planets...not to mention, it is capable of supporting life...3/4 or 2/3 water.. .etc... Now, tell me...why would an alien want such a nice planet? Higher intelligence hasn't made the human race any friendlier...so would an advanced alien intelligence be any less aggressive? What if their world is about to his the frying pan...(epsilon? what's the term?)...and they need to move in... An intelligent race...would plan ahead?! 'Nuff Said... Michael Vadera - XT Possessed?! [CONF #4 Msg #27 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Ms g: 28 of 45 Subj: Skeptics? To: All From: bruce ll oyd (#0) Date: 11/16/88 01:46:15 PM All -- I know this may not be the place (or time) to post this kind of message, but I feel that I must. I've just briefly pressed my way through all the messages in this area. I take it that everyone believes in life other than that on our planet. I do to, and I do believe that someday we humans will be in communication with these beings. However, I must protest all of these people who believe that UFOs are among us. Let me explain: <1> Why would al iens come to Earth? If there are 30 million different and we only know 3 - 4 million of those species. If there is vast numbers of life in space, [CONF #4 Msg #28 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 29 of 45 Subj: The Move in... To: Mike Vadera (#30) From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/17/88 01:00:41 PM You're right there Michael...an intelligent race would plan ahead. And if some of the hypotheses surrounding t he infamous "cattle mutilations" is true, then perhaps t he EBEs are doing just that...planning ahead by gathering DNA, so that perhaps after a nuclear holocaust, they can "re-seed" the planet. Does higher intelligence mean higher ethics? It should, but apparently it doesn't. Try this one on for example: According to Fenwick, the EBEs want US to do ourselves in through nuclear war...because for them to do it directly would be a violation of THEIR ethics? Hypocrisy? Yes. Don't forget...its been documented thro ught a mulititude of regressive hypno sis sessions with hundreds of abductees...that the EBEs LIE. This is very significant point. If they lie about the most trivial things...could they also not be purposely deceiving us as to our future? Strange stuff indeed. The whole thing is starting to sound more and more like..."a riddle wrapped in an enigma." -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #29 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 30 of 45 Subj: Re: Skeptics? To: Bruce Lloyd From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/17/88 01:05:06 PM I think Michael Vadera's previous message best answers the question as to "Why Earth?" Their MAY be life (abundantly as on Earth) on other planets...but for the time being...we may be UNIQUE...Earth may truly be the envy of the ENTIRE Universe. Now...this must be said every once in a while, so that people do not misunderstand some of the messages posted here in the UFOlogy Conference. Some of us believe in UFOs...the 5 or 10% which are not readily explainable according to our conventional scie ntific understanding. Some of us think that their are some sort of advanced "intelligence" behind a fraction of these remaining 5 to 10%. Thus technically...they are no longer UFOs...but IFOs..Identified Flying Objects...although not as "identified" as our curiousities would like it. Once we have reached the point whereby we feel sure that a SMALL percentage of typical UFO sightings can be explained through recourse to the Alien-EBE-ET hypothesis (of either Earthly or other p lanetary origin)...the n we go on to further speculate as to what ARE their actions, intentions, goals, etc., here on Planet Earth. Please don't confuse speculation...with someone believing in it wholeheartedly. So far a lot of the previous posts I and others have made, have been premised with such obviously controversial assertions. And where does this speculation originate from? For some, not initiated in the UFO field, it comes from their own intuitive feelings on the subject, and of course from the cul tural environm ent around them...be it from science-fiction books, tv, movies, etc. However, much of the speculation is based on actual abductee accounts of what they saw, were told, experienced physically, etc. So my point is, this is not idle speculation....along the line of a Carl Sagan or James Oberg....this is speculation based off of actual reports from people who have claimed to have been first-hand witnesses. Speculation also originates from so called "insiders"; who are intelligence agents, scientists, etc...who although not in direct contact with "Aliens", have nonetheless access to classified information which reveals something about their agenda. Obviously the latter is not readily available to the public through gov't documents, etc...but must be fed sureptiously to outside contacts. Thus in closing...I make the point again: Do not take the discussion going on in this Conference area as one bie YES to every strange and bizarre theor y as to what are the origin and purpose of UFOs. Much is speculation.. .which can be useful...and which in part is BASED on information already known in the UFOlogy field. Yes...there is a personal risk as soon as someone starts to talk about a subject as sensitive and controversial as this...a risk of ridicule, or of not being taken serious. While I will not tolerate ridicule here, people are welcome to present opposing views...indeed encouraged to do so. Just remember the underlying premise...not all of us have our minds made up, so a lot of the discussion will in evitably lead to speculation....speculation which should not be misinterpreted as our own strongly held personal beliefs, unless of course someone has already stated that as their position. -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #30 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 31 of 45 Subj: CANADIAN UFO PROJECT To: All From: Harvey Stewart (#28) Date: 11/17/88 02:01:29 PM Hi to one and all. I'm new on Paranet and as such I am about to post my first message. I hope to become a fairly active participa nt and will definately respond in due corse to all mail sent to me. I have been reading the subject matter since the early 60's and find myself once again drawn to the topic in the wake of all the recent meddia hype. I have been an active BBS er for over 5 years and have only recently discovered the Toronto Paranet node run in an exemplary manner by Tom Mickus. I remember reading somewhere about a project called MAGNET which was run by the Canadia n government. (It might have been in a 60's copy of FATE m agazine as I was a subscriber back then) Does anyone out there have any information on this or sourcebooks that I can go to. My UFology library currently consists of about 60 volumes and I am in the market to expand it if any of you out there have material you wish to part with. I look forward to participating and hearing from you all. [CONF #4 Msg #31 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 32 of 45 Subj: FIDONET UFO ECHO To: All From: (#1) Date: 11 /17/88 02:56:32 PM Just a reminder to everyone that Pi now carries the FIDONET UFO Echo...but in file format only (due to computer compatibility problems). The files can be found in the FIDONET UFO ECHO Menu option off of the UFOlogy Menu. The files are numbered sequentially, with the highest number being the latest capture upload. It will be updated on a weekly and sometimes twice-weekly basis. They contain messages relating to the discussion of UFOlogy, from aro und North America. Coming soon...Pa raNet will have its own UFOlogy Echo...along with a General Echo (for other paranormal and unexplained phenomena discussion). These will be coming on-line soon...so stay tuned for more details. -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #32 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 33 of 45 Subj: UFOs To: All From: Matthew Zold (#92) Date: 11/17/88 07:13:34 PM Hi all I'm new here so I'm not to sure of how everything works. This is just a thought, but does anyone think that the saucer business is phony. My thought of all ETs is maybe they are like us and maybe they are launching Shuttles or rockets and of the sort. Does anyone believe this idea more than the saucer thing? Could anyone answer my question of the possiblity of this idea over the others? If you can thanks for clearing this up for me. Matthew Zold [CONF #4 Msg #33 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 34 of 45 Subj: Shuttles & Rockets? To: Matthew Zold (#92) From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/18/88 04:33:44 AM Could you be a little more specific Matthew? I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at. Do you mean you think that ETs may be more humanoid like us, and at a similar stage of development? -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #34 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 35 of 45 Subj: Bill Cooper To: All From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/18/88 04:39:59 AM Don't look now...but the greatest UFO debunking extravaganza of all time, could be just over the horizon. Bill Cooper along with others, including Larry Fenwick who hinted of such a possibility; think that UFOlogy may soon be going through a period of intense debunking. The scenario as put forward by Bill Cooper...is that all the MJ-12 - Project Aquarius material is part of one large elaborate disinformation campaign, one of whose goals is to discredit UFOlogists of the likes of Bill Moore and others....and thus turn the public again st UFOs period. And to what ultimate purpose you ask? Who knows.... -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #35 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 36 of 45 Subj: Antarctica To: Al Pinto (#91) From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/18/88 04:59:14 AM Having just read ORIGINS.UFO, I have just a couple of questions I wouldn't mind having you answer. First off, do you think that there was an active German presence there even after W.W.II? Realizing that much of this is speculation on your part...what type of activit ies do you think they would have been engaging in since 1945? And what about today? Antarctica is a strange continent...and the least explored land mass in the entire globe. What "secrets" do you think she might have to reveal? -Tom [CONF #4 Msg #36 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#]n Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 37 of 45 Subj: Re: Antarctica To: Sysop From: Al Pinto (#91) Date: 11/19/88 12:30:02 AM Very good questions Tom. Yes, I do think that the missing scientists a nd SS men went d own there after WWII was over. I am speculating, but whenever I do, it is based in fact. I have reason to believe that two U-boats secretly stole awy at the end of the war and took these people and blueprints down there. The Germans were exploring Antartica more than any nation on this Earth. They ~rcould have built underground bases there in which to develop their saucer and other related technology, in order to reach their diabolical end, whatever it may be. I thi nk it is world domination and the continua nce of the Master-Slave society they were so interested in. Funny how the "Aliens" are interested in the same thing. I could go{on forever but, this only holds so much information in this message. It is important to read my files. They contain much in the way of historical fact. Thanks for the questions. -Al [CONF #4 Msg #37 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 38 of 45 Subj: Humanoi d ETs? To: Sysop From: Richard Wakefield (#19) Date: 11/19/88 0 3:37:08 PM Well, I would have to say that the probibility of a species of organims evolving like us on a different planet is miniscule. However, there are phyisical constraints which would force an organims to look similar. For example, two eyes at the front of the "head" end. Fingers, with opposable fingers to grasp. Things like this are a MUST and would evolve because of the physical restraints just like we did. But visitors to earth of ETs is something I can't accept without SOLID verifyable evi dence. It WOULD be great if there were! JRW [CONF #4 Msg #38 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 39 of 45 Subj: JFK - EBE Connection? To: George Belanus (#58) From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/19/88 11:29:55 PM George, the person's name which I received from Larry Fenwick, concerning the hypothesized link between the EBEs and the JFK assassination...is that of Fred Crisman. He is the so-called "vagrant of Dealy Plaza". He was supoenaed by the Garrison Commiss ion investigating the presidential murder. This same individual apparently has some links to the Mob and CIA. The EBE link is said to come from an involvement he head in a UFO incident, detailed in one of the UFO anthologies. I will be getting more info on this soon. Larry Fenwick told me that he had also heard of Crisman's involvement through Bill Moore who got the information from Condor and Falcon....the anonymous military intelligence insiders....or Project Aquarius "rebels". YES...this is an INCREDIBLE claim...but according to Fenwick, he believes this did indeed happen. -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #39 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 40 of 45 Subj: At the Ontario Science Centre.... To: All From: Bruce Lloyd (#103) Date: 11/20/88 09:56:09 PM ============================================ SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE EXHIBIT. Laser Lobby, through Jan. 31, 19 89. See what THE PLANETARY SOCIETY are doing to monitor our galaxy for sounds of extraterrestrial life. ============================================ As you can tell from the message header, this is taking place at the Ontario Science Centre. For more information, I guess you would call OSC.. Bruce "hey! what's that funny blue thing in the sky" Lloyd [CONF #4 Msg #40 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 41 of 45 Subj: Re: Shuttles & Rockets? To: Sysop From: Bruce Lloyd (# 103) Date: 11/20/88 10:00:04 PM Whats the general "theory" (I can never spell that word) on aliens being based on silicon (whereas humans being based on carbon)? Bruce "..then the dog rose on his hind legs and walked toward us.." Lloyd [CONF #4 Msg #41 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 42 of 45 Subj: silicon To: Bruce Lloyd (#103) From: Harvey Stewart (#28) Date: 11/21/88 07:11:09 PM I would have to assume that since silicon is similar t o carbon based on its place in the Periodic table and its valence that the theory is that a silicon based life form could theoretically evolve in an environment that started off with different raw components than did earth. In a nitrogen, oxygen, carbon environment silicon would certainly have been at a disadvantage given the temperature range we are looking at on the earth. Who is to say if silicon would of had a potential to be the building blocks of life in an env ironment that was higher in temperature and not using H2O as the sol vent. Even on the earth life has taken some pretty unsuspected turns as can be seen in the bacteria that inhabit boiling hot sulfer springs and have a sulfer chemestry based metabolism and of course let us not forget the copper based metabolism in the tube worms, clams and bacteria inhabitting the hot vents on the mid ocean ridges. Just because we are carbon,oxygen,hydrogen based let us not be so naive to think that that is the credo for the universe. I believe in fa ct that one of the new theories that is i n vogue is that life on earth got its start using clays as a structural building block and catalyst for initial metabolic reactions [CONF #4 Msg #42 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 43 of 45 Subj: Re: silicon To: Harvey Stewart (#28) From: Bruce Lloyd (#103) Date: 11/22/88 07:34:03 AM I for one don't limit my imagination to just carbon based creatures like ourselves. There might even be other creatures made of other elements that we couldn't e ven imagine. BL [CONF #4 Msg #43 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 44 of 45 Subj: UFOLOGY FILES To: All From: Harvey Stewart (#28) Date: 11/22/88 10:21:55 PM I recently downloaded the entire contents of the Ufology library on THE CRUCIBLE and actually printed and read the contents of each file. I must say that Tom Mickus has done an excellent job on this board and is to be commended to no end. As not all of you are fortunate enough to have a 9600 baud modem I have listed below t he files which are really worth you taking the time to download. The file sizes are in bytes as stored by IBM DOS. If you cant take the time to read them all then perhaps you might want to cheat a bit and read just the files which are highlited (*******) Name Length Date ============ ======== ========= FEDEX2.DOC 5120 17 Nov 88 FEDEX3.DOC 28672 17 Nov 88 ****************** FEDEX4.DOC 3072 16 Nov 88 ****************** FEDEX5.DOC 4096 16 Nov 88 GUNGHO .UFO 4096 16 Nov 88 ****************** HOWE.THD 13312 18 Nov 88 JSLEAR.REP 13312 16 Nov 88 LANGRES.TXT 4096 18 Nov 88 LEAR.REP 7168 16 Nov 88 ******************* LEAR.TXT 27648 9 Oct 88 ******************* LEARBIO.UFO 4096 9 Oct 88 LEARCAL.UFO 6144 17 Nov 88 LEARCIS.THD 21504 18 Nov 88 LEARCOOP.THD 6144 15 Nov 88 LEARDANW.UFO 8192 18 Nov 88 ******************* LEAR FLM.UFO 7168 17 Nov 88 LEARMES.TXT 932 17 Nov 88 LIGHT.TXT 9216 18 Nov 88 RELEASE1.UFO 3072 19 Nov 88 TOALL.DOC 4096 16 Nov 88 WPLEAR.MIS 5120 19 Nov 88 ******************** AQUACONF.SR 4096 17 Nov 88 AQUAMEMO.DOC 4096 15 Nov 88 AQUAQUES.TXT 20480 31 Aug 88 ******************** AQUATV.DOC 3072 15 Nov 88 GLEASON.UFO 2048 18 Nov 88 GLENAQUA.DOC 5120 18 Nov 88 HIDUFO.TXT 4096 18 Nov 88 HILLENKO.UFO 3072 17 Nov 88 HOTTEL.UFO 2048 18 Nov 88 JMP.UFO 16384 18 Nov 88 LETDIX.TXT 4096 18 Nov 88 ******************** NSA.UFO 11264 16 Nov 88 WAREUFO.TXT 6144 18 Nov 88 FENWICK.TXT ******************** WARNING.PBB ******************** VESCO.TXT ******************** BREAK2.UFO 1024 16 Nov 88 EXPMJ12.TXT 4096 15 Nov 88 FRIEDOS.DOC 7168 18 Nov 88 ******************** GREENCO.CIS 14336 20 Nov 88 MJ12-1.TXT 5120 30 Aug 88 MJ12-2.TXT 5120 30 Aug 88 MJ12.DOC 26305 19 Nov 88 ********************* MJ12.SS 10240 18 Nov 88 MJ12DOC1.UFO 5120 18 Nov 88 MJ12DOC2.UFO 13312 18 Nov 88 ********************* MJ12DOC3.UFO 2048 16 Nov 88 MJ12DOC4.UFO 2048 16 Nov 88 MJ12QA.DOC 7168 16 Nov 88 ********************* SPOOK.UFO 11264 17 Nov 88 ********************* THISISIT.UFO 14336 15 Nov 88 ********************* TIMES.UFO 9216 19 Nov 88 ************ ********* [CONF #4 Msg #44 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] Conf: ParaNet Pi - UFOlogy Msg: 45 of 45 Subj: GB Update To: All From: Tom Mickus (#1) Date: 11/23/88 11:03:43 AM According to the latest news...the Gulf Breeze sightings have yet to be fully exposed as a hoax. Although some have pointed to a "devastating" series of investigative reports on a Florida TV station....no one has yet seen them. Perhaps its just another rumour. UFOlogists are still split on the whole episode...with some believing it to be an authentic UFO encounter. Tracy Torme apparently believes that its now 99% for real. Others have come out against it. ParaNet Alpha has rated the incident as a "hoax". This may be a little premature, but is still a safer bet than coming out in support of the veracity of the sightings, especially in light of all the rumours and suspicion swirling around. For some recent information, see the UFOlogy file library for YEAR.GB, which contains 3 articles by the Editors of the "Gulf Breeze Sentinel". The au thor s are Bob Oeschler, Duane Cook, and Don Ware. The last individual will be the featured guest in 2 wks time on the weekly Sunday night CI$ Paranormal Issues "Convention". If you don't want to attend (on-line time is expensive!), see the file library soon after for a transcript. -Tm [CONF #4 Msg #45 of 45] Cmd [?] or [#] [---End of File---] ********************************************** * THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo * **********************************************