Copyright 1995 by Linda Moulton Howe
P. O. Box 538, Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006
FAX: 215-491-9842 E-Mail: LMH333@aol.com
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INTERVIEW WITH RAY SANTILLI
[Oct 18, 1995] -- On Tuesday, September 12, 1995 in London, I went to the offices of Merlin Productions to talk with owner and music video producer Ray Santilli about his company's release of alleged extraterrestrial autopsy footage to television networks. Santilli said he had been working on a music video about Elvis Presley in 1993 and was in the United States to screen and purchase old Presley film from a retired cameraman, "JB." From 1942 until 1952, JB said he had worked for Air Force intelligence and had photographed a crashed flying saucer, three live "Freaks" and one dead "Freak" on June 3, 1947 near Socorro, New Mexico. A month later in July 1947, JB said he filmed autopsies on two of the "Freaks" that had died and was again called to film a third autopsy in 1949 on the last humanoid that had survived for nearly two years.
JB showed Santilli B &W film excerpts he had photographed of the "Freak" humanoids. Santilli negotiated to purchase them, in addition to the Elvis Presley footage, not knowing that "I was getting in over my head in a subject I knew nothing about" with implications evolving toward the stunning revelation that we are not alone in the universe and the U. S. government has had hard evidence for at least fifty years. The following are excerpts from my interview with Santilli:
Howe: Since [the cameraman] handed you those film reels in 1993 and their first broadcast on Fox in the U. S. and Channel 4 in England on August 28, 1995, has anybody gone to his door or called him or done anything to threaten him?
Santilli: That's his greatest concern. The original agreement we had with him for the purchase of the film really was a very simple one. And it was that he wanted some cash and we wanted the film and it was only possible if we could guarantee his privacy. His concern at the time we met him was that his granddaughter was getting married and he needed money to help her with the wedding. At the moment, his real name has still not been made public and he has still not been located. So, unless that changes, he doesn't have a problem.
Howe: Has JB suggested any reason why the United States government has maintained a policy of silence about the craft and aliens or "Freaks" as he called them in his statement?
Santilli: Yes, absolutely. He thinks a great deal more has happened and in private conversations, he maintains that much of the technology that we enjoy today came from that vehicle in digital technology, fiber optics, the lot. He says that Americans have raced ahead of other countries in terms of technology and the reason was because they were acquiring the technology from the vehicle. And from maybe other vehicles that crashed as well. And if you look at how fast technology has spread in the last 30 years or so, you have to think it's quite remarkable and outside the normal course of events if you look back at human history.
But it hasn't all been kept a secret because we were contacted by people representing the Chinese government, and people representing the Japanese government. They all said they have seen footage similar to ours. In fact, the Chinese people who came to my office said that the film they saw was from the same batch as our film stock. And they confirmed that there was an exchange of information between the Chinese and the Americans sometime two years ago. And that they had access to footage that they are certain comes from the same material as ours.
Howe: Was that screening in any particular agency in the United States?
Santilli: Well, it's the CIA that's involved apparently.
Howe: Did the Chinese explain why the CIA would be showing them alien autopsy footage?
Howe: Did they see both autopsies?
Santilli: No, I think they saw only the one autopsy that we have released so far.
Howe: When will the world be able to see the first autopsy? It's an identical humanoid, isn't it?
Santilli: A similar species. I wouldn't say it's identical. A similar species. It's in the hands really of my friend, the German collector [who put up the cash financing to purchase the U. S. cameraman's film reels and in exchange has retained exclusive rights to the First Autopsy.] I have spoken to him about it because obviously after the television broadcasts of the second autopsy, everyone is asking to see the first one, too.
Howe: How would you personally describe the differences of the being in the autopsy we haven't seen?
Santilli: I think the only way you could describe it without being an expert on what these creatures are is by saying that the other creature [in the First Autopsy] is slightly smaller and looks more wrinkled and blemished, but you can't see any wounds on it. There was no visible signs of damage to that creature. But then if you look at the cameraman's statement, he was quite certain that three of the creatures were alive and that apart from the dead one and an injured one, the other two were in reasonably good shape.
(Howe Note: Bob Shell hypothesizes that the televised humanoid autopsy is the injured being retrieved at the site and that the wrinkled and blemished body was the being already dead at the Socorro retrieval site and put on ice for preservation. Since the cameraman said the two autopsies were filmed the same time in July 1947, the implication is that the injured being lived for about a month before death and was then autopsied along with the longer dead and more deteriorated being. That would still leave two more beings. The cameraman said he filmed a third autopsy in 1949. What happened to the fourth humanoid? I have received anonymous information that the fourth being returned to its own kind suggesting communication between its species and the U. S. government.)
Howe: Do you see more of an autopsy, more cutting, more organs, in the First Autopsy?
Santilli: It's similar, although the doctors spend a great deal of time examining the sexual organs and we don't have the full procedure as much as we do on the one you've already seen. They examine the genitalia and turn the creature up and they fiddle around with the limbs and then you see them cut the chest open and start work on the organs. And I don't think we get much further than that. There is a head shot there once again and they do remove the membrane on the eyes. That's one of the very first things they do in that autopsy. They start with the examination of the body. The eyes are one of the first things they do and then they start looking around the sexual areas.
Howe: In the second televised autopsy, there were no discernible sexual organs ...
Howe: ... but there appears to be an opening in what we would consider to be a pubic area.
Howe: In the First Autopsy, when you say they examine genitalia, is there a difference?
Santilli: No, it's the same, except it's a little more graphic and a little more unpleasant for the squeamish, I'm afraid. It's the full pull-the-legs-apart and look.
Howe: Like a gynecological exam?
Santilli: Yes, exactly. That's what it looks like. And a small, white organ of some kind with strings or tendrils was removed, but I couldn't tell you what it is.
Howe: Which goes back to what are the greatest differences between the autopsies of the humanoids and an autopsy of a human?
Santilli: I think the film has now been analyzed by several medical experts in different countries. They all agree that the creature is flesh and blood. That's the first thing. Secondly, the majority of the pathologists all agree that the creature was alive two hours or so before the autopsy started because of the fluid - which the cameraman says was red like blood - and also the texture of the organs and so forth. None of them can agree as to what the creature is. And certainly none of them have seen anything like that in their professional careers.
(Howe Note: Since non-human "blood" might not have the same clotting factor as human blood, the fluid that ran from the scalpel cutting would not necessarily imply fresh blood.)
Howe: The cameraman's statement says he was first told a Russian spy plane had crashed but knew that wasn't true when he got to the Socorro site. Why?
Santilli: Because it was most definitely a disk that had crashed. It was a disk that had a smaller disk attached to it and during the crash, a smaller disk had broken off and created the debris - the struts or the beams that connected the two disks together. He said that even though the crash occurred many hours prior to their arriving, the ground and the vehicle were still radiating heat.
It's a fascinating story because it's one of fear by most of the people who were there at the site. And when he arrived, he arrived with 15 or 16 other people who had been collected from Wright Field near Dayton, Ohio. Then they picked up more medical personnel in Roswell. JB thought they seemed to know exactly what was occurring there at the time (as if they had done this before.) He said there was a great deal of concern about the welfare of the creatures because they had to get them out of that area. But no one was allowed to go near for fear of explosion. There was confusion and they weren't sure what to do.
Eventually, the decision was made to move in around 6 AM and the first thing was to recover the creatures and any loose debris and then stand back again. Which is what they did. And JB makes no bones about how the creatures were handled. He said they were very badly handled, as far as he was concerned. He said they screamed throughout the evening. Then they screamed louder as people moved in and the only way they were able to retrieve the boxes or release the grip of the creatures was to strike one of them with the butt of a rifle. Which they did and then the creatures were taken away.
Howe: How were they taken?
Santilli: They were stretchered off. They were taken to tents for examination.
Howe: You mean that humans lifted these beings on to a stretcher like you would in an ambulance situation?
Howe: And did JB say anything about what the beings did when they were put onto the stretchers?
Santilli: First, the creatures were secured and by securing them, he meant they were tied and taped so they couldn't move and put on stretchers and taken through to the examination tents. And they were examined there for a great deal of time. [Some of this tent footage has not been released yet to the public.]
Howe: All three alive?
Santilli: All three alive, yeah. Then they were removed. And the vehicle itself was loaded on to what I think was a Diamond-T truck. It was a flatbed-type truck. It was then taken off to Wright Field.
Howe: And he filmed American military and intelligence personnel examining the live creatures?
Santilli: Absolutely. And he goes further than that. It's been a great bone of contention. But he insists that Truman was there for one of the autopsies as well. I know that the Truman Library says that Truman couldn't have been there - but JB insists that Truman was there and that a significant number of the military hierarchy were there as well at the time. I don't know the names, but certainly people who mattered. He confirms that in fact on one of the canisters we have, we see the name "Truman" and a reel number, but unfortunately we weren't able to process that one piece of film.
Howe: Why are there conflicting stories about whether U. S. President Harry S. Truman can be seen viewing one of the humanoids during autopsy?
Santilli: I had no experience dealing with the UFO community. I come from the very commercial world of music and video. And when we first received the footage, I felt that today's technology would be able to retrieve all the images and it wouldn't be a problem. I did make the mistake at the beginning of saying to people: "Well, here's what we've got. Physically we have got it." And I said that because it was the information given to me by JB. I relayed the information in good faith that the cameraman was quite certain that Truman was there, that he was in the autopsy room and JB said "even if you can't hear him, you can lip read him because he's that close on film." However, we have just not been able to retrieve the image on that particular reel. A good 50% of the footage we had, we were not able to retrieve an image from. But I made the mistake in the early days of saying to everyone: "This is what we've got" and I've been hamstrung and quartered because of it. But that was a mistake and we all learn by our mistakes. So, I won't make that mistake again.
Howe: Did the cameraman talk to you in any private conversations about a debriefing by anybody concerning the autopsies?
Santilli: He feels somewhat abandoned in that situation actually. It's a rather interesting part of the story because it leads you to understand more about how he was able to keep some of the canisters of film. After he separated problem reels - he separated reels where the camera had jammed or there was an exposure problem or whatever reason, reels that needed special attention in processing - he sent the first batch through to Washington. He then worked on the remainder. Then he called Washington to say that the remaining reels were ready for pick up.
Howe: Was that Major General Clements M. McMullen, Deputy Commander of the Strategic Air Command that he called?
Santilli: Yeah, Washington. Well, McMullen was the person he reported to, so I suppose so. However, I don't know. He tried on numerous occasions to get Washington to pick up the reels or arrange collection and they didn't. And it was the same time that they were just about to split the Army from the Air Force and there was a great deal of confusion as to who was reporting to whom and the people in either McMullen's office or at Washington thought the first film batch was the total of the material. And they never picked up the rest of the canisters. And he was never de-briefed. He felt that as time rolled on and the story developed, he was left out. It was probably because he was "just the cameraman."
Released October 18, 1995
by Linda Moulton Howe via ISCNI/AOL.
Original file name: .CNI - Howe.Santilli 10.23
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