This was an aggressive move on his part to try and gain some leverage. If he went high profile, he could force them to adopt a hands off policy. After going high profile, if they incarcerated him or killed him, they would have confirmed that what he was saying was true, and that was definitely not their desire.
At this point, we all agreed that there was great power in KNOWING that someone was listening on the phone. People watch what they say when they suspect their phone line is tapped, but it's a much different story when you're confident they're listening. We called friends in other states and told them Bob's story. We would also imply that we had informed numerous friends and agencies by mail, something that they could not monitor. If someone actually was listening, and I think they were, we must have driven them crazy trying to figure out what was real. They had to prepare for the worst and presume we might be telling the truth. Bob was being followed by unmarked cars both day and night. I was even followed one evening.
Finally, Dennis Mariani contacted Bob and said he wanted to meet and speak with Bob on a "personal level." Bob set up the meeting at the Union Plaza casino in downtown Las Vegas. The meeting was set for 8 PM on Saturday night when there'd be plenty of witnesses if anything bad happened. Joe Vaninetti happened to be in town from Los Alamos that weekend. We created a stealth plan and Joe and I accompanied Bob down to the Union Plaza hotel.
Bob entered first and, a short time later, Joe and I entered and sat down to play the slot machines as though we were tourists. Bob walked around and looked for Mariani, but at first he couldn't find him. Bob even paged him on the house phone. Finally, Bob saw Mariani approaching in a crowd of people and walked up to him. Mariani wouldn't make eye contact with Bob and walked on by as if Bob wasn't there. Bob also noticed another security man from S4 over by the wall on the other side of the crowd. Bob casually walked by Joe and me and told us what happened without looking at us or appearing to socialize with us. From a distance he then saw Mariani walk into another part of the casino.
Bob asked me to go into that other part of the casino with him, but to stay out of sight. He wanted someone else to be able to visually identify Dennis Mariani. We entered in a crowd and Bob pointed out Mariani, who was now sitting at a blackjack table. I went and hid behind a bank of slot machines behind Mariani. I was only about 20 feet from him and I had a clear view of him. He looked exactly as Bob had described him: thirty-five to forty years old, medium build, blond hair, and a tightly cropped blonde mustache; and this night he was also smoking a slender cigar.
Mariani's manner was quite curious. He was sitting between two very attractive, very buxom women at the blackjack table, yet he would only look down at his cards and didn't seem to be enjoying himself. This is unusual behavior for someone in the festive casino atmosphere of a Saturday night in Las Vegas. Bob walked down the other side of the blackjack pit parallel to a long bar. Mariani looked up and his head followed Bob as Bob made that walk. Since this was the only time he looked up from his cards, especially considering the other available scenery, this indicated to me that he, indeed, knew who Bob was.
Bob walked around the blackjack pit and walked right up to Mariani and said, "Well, Dennis, you said you wanted to meet and here I am, now what's the deal?" Not only did Mariani not answer, he didn't even look at Bob or acknowledge his existence. Bob said, "Dennis, what the hell is going on?" Again, Mariani didn't acknowledge him.
Bob came over to me behind the slot machines and we quickly formulated a plan to follow him and try and get his license number or something along those lines. Mariani was only out of our sight for less than 15 seconds, but when we looked back, he was gone. We hurried through the casino in different directions looking for him. We even checked the restrooms, but he was nowhere to be found. We went back to the other part of the casino where Joe was sitting and asked him if anybody fitting Mariani's description had come that way. Joe said no one who looked like that had walked by his area. We could only surmise that maybe Mariani was there to speak on a personal level and that the other security guy that Bob had spotted was a surprise to everyone, including Dennis. No one has seen or heard anything from Dennis Mariani since that night.
After this, Bob proceeded to cooperate with George Knapp, who subsequently produced "UFOs, The Best Evidence." George won the UPI individual achievement award for that television special. During the making of that documentary, George tried to check out Bob's credentials, including his schooling and his previous employment. George could only find a record of Bob's schooling at Pierce Junior College in California. Even Los Alamos denied that Bob ever worked there.
Bob provided George with evidence that he had worked at Los Alamos. This included the names of people he worked with, newpaper articles about him, and even a LANL phone book that listed Bob's name in it. People were apparently going to great lengths to detach from Bob Lazar. Eventually Bob cooperated with George in contacting Kirk-Mayer, the LANL sub-contractor that Bob worked for at LANL. Both Kirk-Mayer and LANL admitted that Bob had been issued a "Z number" of 094729 on May 18, 1982, but both said they no longer had any record of Bob's employment. By the way, a "Z number" is some prerequisite identification number for anyone who works at any of the LANL facilities. Bob also provided George with his W-2 from S4. However, George ran into dead ends when he tried to find who deposited money in IRS and FICA accounts on behalf of Bob Lazar. The word was that some IRS and Social Security files are also classified.
In the months that followed, ufology began to become more mainstream, and much of it was due to George Knapp and others exposing Bob Lazar's story. The Rachel Bar and Grill, outside of Area 51, became the "Little A le Inn," and people began running bus tours out to watch the sky over Groom Lake. George Knapp received 30 to 40 phone calls on a daily basis which involved people's reports and questions reagarding all aspects of ufology. Journalists from all over the world were chasing Bob Lazar for interviews, and still are for that matter. Then came the brothel bust.
Bob was still a broken man, but when he had recovered enough to go out in public, he sought some comfort with a hooker. Now I don't know how this looks and sounds elsewhere in the world, but in Nevada this is no big deal. Prostitution is legal in the state of Nevada, but illegal in the counties that house Las Vegas, Reno, and Lake Tahoe. However, this is just for show and it's common knowledge that brothels and hookers in the form of escort services exist in these cities also. The police pretend to passively pursue this, but along with gambling, drinking, and entertainment, prostitution is part of the package.
Bob called a number out of the newpaper and happened upon a 40 to 45 year old madam/hooker who ran 2 to 4 girls out of a condominium project in the southeast part of town. This was an upper line condo project, so don't envision some dark sleezy place engulfed in red lights. Bob went there and did his business, but before he left, the hookers were having some problems with a stereo or something like that and, naturally, Bob came to the rescue. He fixed it for them, and they invited him back for a freebie.
Well, Bob went back more than once and, in time, all of the girls loved him. Bob has this unique manner about him in which he treats everyone equally. When you interact with Bob, he never gives you the feeling that he's a scientist and you're not so you're not worthy. He treated the hookers with respect, like friends and equals, and this was a breath of fresh air to them, considering the attitudes they get from some people.
The madam explained to Bob that she had an ongoing affair with a member of Las Vegas Metro Vice and that as long as she didn't do outcalls to the hotels, vice would turn their heads and allow her to operate. It is unknown whose interest these cops were protecting in the hotels. The madam also told Bob that she was an FBI, DEA, and Las Vegas Metro informant. Bob felt a sense of security because of all of this and proceeded to tell the madam how he could streamline her operation by installing computers, security cameras, and other electronic equipment. This appealed to her, and she financed her brothel's entrance into the computer age.
During all of this, something bad happened. The madam fell in love with Bob. She offered him fifty percent of the business to stay around, but once the electronics were installed, he was no longer interested. Since he wasn't really interested in her, it was a drag for him to be around and he detached himself from her and the brothel. To say that she didn't take this very well is an understatement.
Now television sweeps rolled around, and George Knapp thought it would be a great idea to give his audience an update on what the now-famous Bob Lazar had been up to since his exit from the program at S4. KLAS had set ratings records with George's previous UFO special about Bob Lazar and they were interested in doing that again.
When George did the interview, Bob said, among other things, that he had installed a computer system for a local brothel. That was a bad idea. The fact that Bob had broadcast this on television reflected his naivety about the ramifications of his actions. The Las Vegas cops now had a problem. Here was a guy stating that he knew where a local brothel was and all they had to do was ask him its whereabouts and then bust it. The problem was compounded by the fact that the brothel was run by one of their informants and they were aware of her operation.
The madam's vice buddies explained to her that they had to bust her operation because of Bob's televised admission. After all, the entire vice department didn't know about this, just a couple of vice cops she knew and did business with. They busted the place and she blamed the entire operation on Bob, probably under their advice. She had a client list of some very high level Las Vegans, including cops, and they weren't about to force her to make that public. They let her off with a misdemeanor called, "Keeping a Disorderly House," which is a Nevada statute from the early 1900s. I don't think anybody even knows what that's supposed to mean. They then charged Bob with six felonies.
These cops thought they could just hang this whole thing on Bob and be done with it. They soon found out that Bob Lazar had a large following and hundreds of thousands of people were scrutinizing this story. Naturally, most following Bob's story thought this was a setup by the federal government to discredit him, and they may have been involved, but that is unknown to this day.
Anyway, under some of the most incompetent and questionable legal advice in history, Bob plead guilty to pandering and they dropped the rest of the charges. We all urged Bob to fight it, but he didn't want to spend the money. This is part of his "I can do everything myself" attitude, because his dad is a wealthy L.A. businessman and money would have been no problem. Bob simply won't depend on anyone, even those who love him and want to help him.
Prior to sentencing, Judge John Lehman questioned how it was possible that a guy with no previous criminal record, like Bob, would have plead guilty under these circumstances. He also couldn't understand how the madam of the brothel wasn't in front of him as a co-defendant. After all, in the madam's original statement to the police, she admitted having become a prostitute in 1971 when Bob Lazar was 12 years old. The judge wasn't buying that Bob coerced HER into anything. All of the judge's questions and apprehensions were stated on the record, ON CAMERA, and George Knapp still has a copy of the raw footage.
Bob was sentenced to three years probation and community service. Ironically, he completed his community service by installing yet another computer system, this time for Clark County, Nevada. The guys down at probation would jockey for position to see who got to go visit Bob so they could talk to him and ask him UFO questions. He's now off probation and we're currently investigating the possibilities for a pardon. The whole thing was one bad dream and somewhat of a joke, because there have only been a handful of pandering convictions in the history of Las Vegas, and the others weren't scientists with no criminal record.
Even after the brothel fiasco, Bob was still a highly sought after interview. In 1990, I had an operation on my left leg which laid me up for ten weeks. Since Bob kept turning down people who wanted interviews, I suggested we make a video tape. He said, "Who would want to see a video tape about all of that stuff?" I proceeded to question Bob at length about things, and I proceeded to write the script of the "Lazar Tape." Unless our distributors are lying to us, it has become the most highly purchased, and bootlegged, video in the history of UFO videos. The original was produced with elementary facilities and it is currently being remade, broadcast quality, with state of the art graphics and imaging. The rest of the story is pretty much history.
The story I've just presented to you is in no way the totality of what happened, but it does present the basic facts. I'm aware of much else that happened, so I can answer questions on subjects and details that have not been mentioned here. No one knows everything, so if I don't know the answer, I'll simply say, "I don't know."
In this synopsis, I've also given researchers, pseudo researchers, and "wanna be" researchers new tidbits to chase down and verify, and to them I say, "Go for it." As you have just read, Bob went public to save his own butt, not to do a favor for everyone else. This is not to say that there isn't a part of him that thinks we all have the right to know. His motive for going public should help explain to some why he is reluctant to participate in some of the the current sideshows. That was never his intent.
I'd also like to include the personal observation that people who think Bob would perpetrate a fraud are wrong. He is totally self sufficient and doesn't care enough about what other people think to waste the time to try and fool them. If I had to describe Bob Lazar in one word, I'd call him "productive." Bob doesn't watch television unless it's the news or weather channel. He doesn't waste one moment of his life preoccupying himself with irrelevant minutiae like the rest of us. Bob couldn't tell you who was in the super bowl or the world series, and if the baseball strike never ends it won't affect his life one bit. He's busy with one scientific project or another and he certainly isn't sitting around wondering what we're saying about him on the internet.
I know that this synopsis, in itself, doesn't prove a thing. I'm now going to write a counterpoint to the infamous "Lazar Timeline" and post that. I don't intend to refute everything that's in it, I just intend to put it in perspective. This story isn't as simple as "some guy with no credentials makes some flying saucer claims and then gets busted for pandering."
I fully understand everyone's apprehensions about the lack of evidence of Bob Lazar's schooling. If I didn't know him, I would be apprehensive, too. I wish I had been around when Bob went to school, but I wasn't. Anyone who has met Bob Lazar knows that you don't know what he knows by taking one electronics course at Pierce Junior College in California. When George Knapp couldn't find any records on Bob, I asked Bob about it privately. I told him that if he did overstate his credentials, he should tell me and I would try and help him smooth it over. I certainly believed he worked at Los Alamos and S4, even if he had overstated his credentials. I believed, and still believe, his story is way too important to lose its impact because of something like this. Bob stood firm and didn't change his story. I've seen him do this about other subjects, and I haven't caught him in a lie yet.
Evidence is abundant that he worked at Los Alamos. In the early 1980's, if you worked at Los Alamos, you had to have a degree or be working toward one at the University of New Mexico at Los Alamos. That's why there's a branch of the University of New Mexico in Los Alamos. That's probably still the rule, I don't know. Since Bob was never enrolled there, obviously, LANL believed Bob had credentials.
After you've read the preceding information and after we've had some questions and answers and dialogue on internet, I think you'll have enough information to put Bob's story in perspective. I'm aware of all of the different theories about him, which range from total fraud to a subject of mind control to who knows what. Most of those are based on misinformation by incompetent UFO researchers and blatant liars.
You don't need UFO researchers and other assorted characters to pass judgment for you, even when it comes to the physics of gravity propulsion and disc technology. There are numerous books available which are written to the intelligent layman, and they explain how physicists know what they know and why they don't know what they don't know. If this subject is important to you, then do some reading and upload your own knowledge base. I'm comfortable with whatever conclusions you draw, both for and against Bob Lazar.
The bottom line is that the only opinion that really counts for you is yours. All of our current opinions are based on the best information we have at this point in time and all of our opinions are subject to change based on new information. That's true of Bob Lazar's story, science, and life in general.
Up to this point I've responded to all of you by Email, but now I'm going to do it on UseNet so any benefit of dialogue will be available to all. I'll treat you as fairly and respectfully as you treat me. Einstein was quoted as saying, "Common sense is all the prejudices you acquire by the age of 18." So use your common sense when you examine Bob's story, but remember to expand your knowledge base at the same time. Bob Lazar is 100% certain the S4 story is true. I'm 99% sure, saving 1% for the fact that I wasn't there myself. I hope my effort here will move your opinion up or down so at least it will have been worth the time one way or another. Please forgive any typos, spelling, or sentence and paragraph structure as I am not a professional writer and I haven't found spell check yet on my new word processsing program. Keep in touch
Original file name: .CNI - Lazar Update 3
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