CNI News first learned of the mystery mandible in the fall of 1995 from an intelligence source who sent us both text and illustrations over the internet. This material is posted on the CNI News web site at www.cninews.com/CNI_FTDAlien.html.
In early October, 1996, CNI News editor Michael Lindemann interviewed John Mosgrove by phone, then interviewed newsman Carl Day and another dental technician, Bruce Phillips, who is also familiar with the mandible.
This is a summary of the information gathered from those interviews. Michael Lindemann's comments are in brackets. All other text is directly quoted from the interview subjects.]
John Mosgrove: I worked for the VA center at Brown Hospital in Dayton, Ohio. It was on a Thursday afternoon in October 1979. Now usually on Thursday afternoons it's pretty quiet in the dental center. Normally we would have a movie or seminar, or a study. Or, if we were running behind, it would be a good catch-up day. And I had just gotten back from lunch, and it was about 1:00 in the afternoon. At that particular time I was alone in the dental laboratory.
I was sitting at my bench and I was working on an upper and lower denture for a veteran, and I had just completed what I had to do on it when the Assistant Chief of Staff walked in. And he says, "Are you busy?" I said, "No, I just finished." He says, "I want you to take this impression and pour it up with Kwik-Set. I need it right away." I said, "Okay. Where's the prescription?" He says, "I haven't made it up yet. I'll make it up and give it to you after a bit." I said, "Okay."
The normal procedure when you do an impression is to go over to the sink and rinse it off, to rinse out the saliva, the debris, the blood, you know.
[Later] I realized [that] when he handed that to me, he put [it] in my hand upside down so that I didn't look at it. I did not get a good look at it until after I pulled it out from underneath the running water. I shook it out and I thought, "My god, what have I got here?" I was amazed. I'd never seen anything like it before in my life.
And I started studying it, looking it over real good as I was walking to the plaster bench where we do pour-ups, and I thought, "My god, really, this is edent ["edentulous," or without teeth] because there is nothing but bone here."
I went ahead and poured it up with Kwik-Set plaster, made a nice padding for it, turned it over and set it on the padding. That stuff sets up real fast.
The doctor, when he came back in, went over to it and separated the tray from the model, looked at it, and he was very happy with it. He took it over to the model trimmer, trimmed off the flash around it, dressed it up to make it look nice. He laid the impression tray on the plaster bench.
I thought, "Boy, I've gotta have another one of that. I've just gotta have that." And I think that man was reading my mind because he picked up [the impression] in his right hand and crushed it, and threw it in the waste container. Then he started to walk past me again, and I said, "Doctor, wait a minute. I've got to have that prescription." He says, "John, you never worked on this, you never seen it, and you never talked about it. Okay?" And then he left, and went out the door.
So I thought, "Well, crap."
Anyway, I walked over to the door and I peered out the little window in the door. There was a Major and a Lt. Colonel in full uniform. [The doctor] handed that to them, shook hands with them, and they left. Now, the Lt. Colonel I'd seen before, and I always tried to decide where it was. It was either at the VA Hospital or it was at Wright-Pat.
But, anyhow, they had left. I waited a second or so, and I went out there, hoping that I would see something more. I walked from the laboratory all the way down to the Chief of Staff's office. Now, along that corridor they have operatories and surgical rooms. There was not a soul on the floor. No patients, no doctors, no nurses, no chair-side girls, no hygienists. Nobody was on the floor. That was very unusual.
I went back into the lab, because I got a little nervous about being down there. I couldn't have explained why I was way down by the Chief of Staff's office if I was caught out in the hallway.
So I went back to the lab, and the chief of the lab came back and he had sort of a crappy grin on his face. I said, "You'll never guess what I just worked on." And he said, "You had something unusual, huh?" That was all the conversation. I didn't talk about it any more because I was afraid I was going to get into trouble if he told the Chief [of Staff] that I talked about it just after he'd told me not to. But I think he knew.
Well, I retrieved the pieces [of the original impression] out of the trash.
[Mosgrove digressed at this point to explain that a "custom-made tray" had been used to create the impression. Normally, manufactured trays are available for varying sizes of human jaws. The tray holds the soft, rubber-based molding material as it is pressed into the teeth to form an impression. But in this case, Mosgrove said, "You couldn't have got a manufactured tray in there to get an accurate impression because it (would be) too damned big. (Even) a small child's manufactured tray wouldn't have fit because it would have been rubbing up against the bone." Mosgrove then continued explaining his recreation of the mandible model.]
Mosgrove: I got it back together, and also drew diagrams of it. I must say I didn't get exactly what I wanted at the end result [because it had been so badly crushed]. But what I did get was the shape of the jaw.
[Mosgrove indicated that there were apparently three "teeth" still in the jaw bone.]
For lack of a better word, I'm gonna call these "teeth." They were all flat, as near as I can figure. They're not meat-eaters [referring to the "original owner" of the mandible. Mosgrove explained that there were two apparent "molars," one on each side, and one tooth in front. The front tooth, which in a human would be a sharp-edged incisor, was "perfectly round" and flat on top.].
Mosgrove: I could tell from the original impression that this person, or whatever it was, was in a terrible accident, or got hit, because of the bone fragments. This thing had a terrible hit in the face, like slamming into something. The main part of the force that hit the face would have been more to the upper than the lower. This knocked the teeth out but it didn't break the mandible. So that means an indirect hit. If there was anything broken on this lower arch, it would have been the hinge and not particularly the jaw bone.
[Lindemann asked Mosgrove if he had compared the anatomy of the mandible with other known primate anatomy.]
Mosgrove: Yeah, I've done it and so has Carl Day. Carl Day has sought out top people in that field, and they can't come up with anything. There is nothing to compare it with in the animal kingdom. Not at all. And I know it's not human. And I also know that there was no bone graft, so this was solid bone, all the way around, which eliminates any surgical operation or anything like, [so] it's not a hoax.
[Lindemann asked Mosgrove why he thought the military had brought the mandible to him, a civilian at Brown Hospital, some distance from Wright Patterson Air Force Base.]
Mosgrove: This [was] damned unusual. Why did they bring it all the way out there when they had a dental laboratory right there on base, a nice, big clinic? I don't even have a high security clearance. [But] there was a lot of scuttlebutt going around on base, and if they'd taken it to the dental clinic on base -- heck, they could just as well say, "Yeah, we got it."
Only one time did I hear any scuttlebutt that I really believed. There's a radio station there in Dayton, one of those talk shows, and I heard them talk about it on the radio. And, boy, they got quieted right away. I'm sure the government quieted them down on that.
Now, Carl Day I think had a little more information than what I had, because I asked him, "What do they say it is?" And he says, "Alien." And, not only that, Carl Day came up with [a] photograph [actually an illustration of a "gray" alien] after all of this occurred, and I didn't know that he had it. He had a luncheon or a dinner with Air Force personnel. And when he held that mandible up to the photograph, they got very upset and then jumped out of the chair. [Mosgrove had given Carl Day one of the three existing models of the mandible.]
Not only that, in 1978 they had a seminar on aliens and UFOs at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, and Carl Day knew about that. [It was] only for military personnel.
[Lindemann asked Mosgrove why he decided to talk, and whether he had experienced any repercussions.]
Mosgrove: I was sort of ticked off at the Federal government anyhow. So I didn't give a damn. I'm sort of worried about it now, but at that time I guess you should say I had an attitude problem and decided to go for it. I've been told that I talk too much. And I'll tell you something else that happened in 1982. My house was shot up.
I don't know if that's related to it or not, but at that time I was really getting into this UFO thing and I was talking quite a lot, and then one morning at about 4:15 a.m. my house was shot up. And it scared my wife to death. My wife told me to keep my mouth shut. But the Sheriff's Department could not substantiate it to have any connections with what I was doing or saying or. They never came up with any answers, don't know who shot my house up. But the evidence is still on the outside. A shotgun blast [destroyed] the whole front window. Fifteen minutes later my wife would have been walking through there because she works at the hospital. It could have killed my wife. But that's the only thing I've had happen -- other than I lost a job.
I took a break from dentistry because I was getting burned out, so I got a job in security. I worked at this place for about two or three years, and then all of a sudden I was fired. That was after my interview with Carl Day. I was working at Kemper Division. And they came up with a cock-and-bull story that I sexually harassed a woman. I've never even seen this woman. I was so mad, I was crying. I can only talk to my wife about it. They wanted me to sign papers that I did it, and I refused. I told them to go to hell. I didn't do anything like that. I know I was set up. And everybody who knows the story knew that I was set up.
[Before concluding the interview, Lindemann asked Mosgrove for a more detailed description of the mandible and how it compared to a human jaw.]
Mosgrove: From your second molar to your canine tooth is pretty much a straight line. But this thing's shape, from the second molars, starts out a little wide, then the bone goes concave, and then it straightens out and comes around the lower incisor area. It curves inward, down to the incisor area, and then it goes right across, which indicates a very small mouth, and a very narrow tongue, like a lizard's... I'm really curious about the tongue... If it has a tongue at all, it has to be narrow.
I've never seen an alien. But due to the shape and the contour of this thing, and considering where it came from, I don't know what else it could be. It's not animal, and I know it's not human. It's not a freak. Air Force don't deal with freaks. And... this mandible has been around for awhile, because you could see the pit holes in the bone from being dried out. I think it's been around for at least 50 years.
[After interviewing John Mosgrove, Michael Lindemann talked with Dayton television newsman Carl Day about his own investigation of the mandible case. Day said that Mosgrove had first called him after Day broadcast a news report on "legends of Wright Patterson." Day interviewed Mosgrove on camera in February of 1995. However, in the news special that he later broadcast, he did not show Mosgrove's face or use his true name. Following are excerpts of Carl Day's remarks to Michael Lindemann.]
Carl Day: I took an open minded view of everything. I checked John out, talked with people who'd worked with him, double checked at the VA hospital (Brown Hospital in Dayton). Yes indeed, he had worked there during that time period. Yes, people remembered him. No, he was not crazy -- things like this. Then when I spent time with John in his home, I just let him talk, and it was an absolutely amazing story. He was the first to admit he didn't have any idea what [the mandible] was.
[By the time Day met Mosgrove], Len Stringfield was dead, so I thought somebody's got to pick up the ball and see if we can get some more answers. So I told [John] I would, and he gave me a copy of [the mandible]. I've since taken it around to anthropologists, archeologists, forensic dentists -- and to date, nobody has really given me an answer as to what it is. At one of the museums where I was talking to several anthropologists, we went through all of their books together, trying to find a match. The closest we could find was a lemur. But the teeth don't match. The shape of the jaw also does not match. There's a lot of stuff that doesn't match. I don't know what it is. And the circumstances around it... it is either a very elaborate hoax -- perpetrated in this case not by John, but by whoever the officers were, for whatever purpose -- or he's on to something, and somebody goofed. It still raises a heck of a lot of questions.
A friend of mine is one of the leading dentists in Ohio. He's seen it and he's fascinated by it. Can't come up with anything there. I've got an appointment in the next few weeks with a gentleman who specializes in reconstruction -- they find bones out in the field somewhere, and it's his job to reconstruct it to what it probably was. He's anxiously waiting to look at it. But so far nobody has been able to give me any answers.
At this point, the weight is still toward the unknown, rather than toward the known... A lot of these people I've talked to are very reliable individuals, and there is something going on. I don't know what. There's a lot going on at Wright-Pat. I had sources at Wright-Pat that were pretty reliable who really wanted to get to the bottom of it. Even with their clearances, they couldn't find anything.
[At the urging of John Mosgrove, Michael Lindemann also interviewed another dental technician, Bruce Phillips, who lives in Richmond, Indiana, and has seen the mandible. Following are excerpts from that interview.]
Bruce Phillips: I came in contact with the mandible from John. He showed it to me one day and asked me to take a look at it to see if I've ever seen anything that looked like it, like a chimpanzee or a gorilla mandible or whatever. I looked at it real well and looked into some books to see if anything could possibly resemble the shape of this mandible, and I haven't come across anything yet. I do have my degree in dental technology. We did study a bit about different mandibles.
I don't think anyone knows what it is for sure. With the story John has, it being so secretive, I have to think it would be something in the classified area. There's no other reason for the officer to come back in and destroy the impression, crumple it up.
I was stationed at Wright-Pat from the latter part of 1971 to 1975. I have a suspicion that they were keeping evidence of ...crashes there. When I was stationed there and working in the dental clinic -- this would be late 1974, probably -- I was cleaning teeth then, and I got people from all different parts of the base as patients. I had an officer, a Major, come in. And [at that time] there was speculation in the local paper that there were aliens being kept on base to be analyzed. I was not a believer then. I just kind of made a joke with that officer who came in, because it was supposed to be in his area -- I think it was the AFIT organization -- where they were supposed to be kept. And I was joking with him. I said, "What about those little green men you're supposed to be hiding? Is there any truth to that?" He got a real serious look on his face, looked over at me and said, "I'm not going to say that it is true, and I'm definitely not going to say that it's not true." He was totally serious. Why he said that to me, I have no idea. I think he was wanting to tell somebody. That's the only thing I can think of. I said, "Can you give me a little bit further... Are you serious?" He said, "That's really all I can say." I said, "Jeez, you're saying that if it definitely wasn't true, you would say it wasn't true." And he said, "Yes." I could not believe what I was hearing, actually. That kind of stuck with me.
That kind of relates back to John's story of the mandible. He was working at the VA in Dayton at that time. It would make sense that if anything was going to be poured up, they would not do it in the dental clinic [on base], because it would just spread all through the organization. So they took this thing off base to the VA center to get poured up, hoping that no one would think anything of it. That's the only thing I can come up with.
They had a wonderful dental facility on base. But with the rumors going on base, if we bring something that they're not used to seeing, and be all secretive, it would spread like wildfire. This is only my speculation.
I would say [the creature] was a vegetarian. The teeth that were left in the mandible were all flat-planed, which would mean that there was no reason for incisors to tear. Just a kind of grinding was all they would need, which would mean to me that they were plant eaters. The most striking part of the thing was the shape of the mandible. If you would put tissue on this -- you know how you see on TV when people have drawn aliens and they all have little, real pointed chins -- that's exactly how it would look. You would have a pointed, very small chin area, and wider where it connected to the temporal mandibular arch.
Nothing I've ever seen looks like it. Can I say it's alien? No. But I have to say there is something hush-hush about this mandible. Putting two and two together, that makes me very suspicious.
[CNI News has received additional commentary on this case from other sources and seeks further information on the possible identity of the mandible as well as the possible military involvement with it. We will report new findings as they become available.]
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