by Debra L. Lindemann C.H.T.
May 16, 1997
As a Clinical Hypnotherapist, I believe we must expand our understanding of how the universe works if we are to fully understand the nature of abduction encounters. For example, abductees often feel that time is distorted during their encounter experiences. Is such time-distortion "real," or is it "only in the mind" -- or are "time" and "mind" inseparably linked?
Can we effectively explore such questions through the lenses of our "ordinary" consciousness alone? Perhaps it is only through the medium of nonordinary states of consciousness such as hypnosis and various meditative altered states that we may bridge the gap between "ordinary" reality and the abduction encounter experience.
Last February, while attending a conference, I had an opportunity to explore this subject further. I spoke with Dr. Ashok K. Jain, Ph.D., professor of physics at Pennsylvania State University. He is also a meditation and hypnosis instructor, as well as author of the book "Clinical and Meditative Hypnosis." The following part of our conversation concerned the subject of time.
DL: Abductees often speak of time distortion in relation to how long they feel they were gone during an encounter. There are cases where the physical body was gone for perhaps 2 hours [i.e. in terms of apparent "missing time"], yet the individual feels that he or she was gone for several days or in some cases just a few minutes. Realizing that part of that discrepancy may be due to gaps in the person's memory, is there another explanation in Quantum Physics? Is it possible that the time experience in another dimension or another reality outside of our planet might be experienced differently than here on earth and cause part of the confusion?
AJ: Yes. But first I want to say three things about time. There are three different ways to understand time. One is the absolute map of time, like Newtonian Mechanics, where we see time as absolute, moving from past to present to future, (linear time). And then comes Einstein's Relativity Theory. The Einstein concept of time is that time seems absolute because of our slow motion in respect to each of us. For example, let's say that I am holding a watch, and you are traveling with some speed holding a watch; my watch will move faster than your watch. It can be calculated that if I am aging 20 years, you may have only aged 5 years, or two years or maybe not at all, depending upon your speed. That kind of physics has been experimented with and verified and everyone agrees on it. The third explanation of time is purely philosophical and meditative or experiential. Quantum Physics is more philosophical than the other two theories. Einstein's theory of time can be measured in the laboratory, and so far found true. In Quantum Physics, time is subjective, and it depends on what state of mind we are in, to experience time. For example, if we are sad we will experience time as longer, if we are happy we will experience time as shorter.
DL: You say that's the philosophical side of Quantum Physics?
AJ: Yes.
DL: Is that a scientifically accepted part of Quantum Physics?
AJ: From an experiential point of view it is true. Some physicists agree with it and some do not. But it is accepted that time is purely subjective. There is much more I want to say about this.
Time is mind. Mind is thought and thought is time. If we have no thought in our mind, it will be impossible to experience what time is. When we go into a trance [as in meditation or hypnosis], it is our thoughts that change. We have no [or less] conscious thinking. That's why time disappears. Because of this we think time is not the same as when we are awake or not in a trance state.
When we speak of time distortion however, we can only do so when we are not in a trance state. When we are in the trance state, there is no one to talk about time. When we come out of that state, it is then that we describe it. We describe it with mind, which is time. The reason time distortion can vary so much from person to person, is that there is a question of how much we remember or how much we explain of our experience. So because experience is explained differently by different people, there is a different amount of time distortion.
For example, there are two people who are abducted. They may have had the exact same experience -- perhaps they were abducted together to the same place and returned at the same time together. However, when they come back and begin interpreting their experience, the time distortion is different for each. One may feel he was gone longer than the other.
DL: This phenomenon of time distortion occurs, then, because of their personal perception of time due to how much thought they put into interpreting it, and each person interprets differently?
AJ: Yes. It is because when you are in the waking state of mind, then you are trying to project that trance experience into your conscious experiences. And when you are explaining that experience, you are in a different mental state than the other person.
Time distortion is the explanation by the same mind which feels time. But when we go into a trance, dream or meditative state, that time we don't know because we are not thinking about time. So time is a convenience like language is. Time exists only in the mind.
DL: I asked originally if you think it is possible that extraterrestrials could exist in another type of dimension or reality that would experience time differently than we do. If so, might this explain why, when our realities meet face to face, it confuses our sense of time even further?
AJ: I think it is possible because they may have a different language of their perception. When we look at them and try to describe an experience from what we think is their point of view, it is again our experience describing their reality, but it is not their reality at all.
DL: So their own reality could be creating a different perception of time for them, and simultaneously, from within our reality and most likely from within a different language, we're trying to interpret our experience of time we had with them?
AJ: Exactly.
DL: Can Quantum Physics explain any further "why" time is distorted in an altered state and "why" we are able to move beyond our limitations of the senses when we go into an altered state?
AJ: When we are in a waking state of mind, we look at an object as if it is separated in space and time. But when we go into an altered state, we go in underneath reality, underneath the Quantum world. Then things are not separated at all, everything is connected with everything else. My body looks separate if I look from my waking state of view. But if I realize that I am breathing air, that air is part of my body too, because without air I cannot survive, then air becomes my body too. Air is part of earth and without earth air wouldn't survive either. Without sun, earth wouldn't survive either.
DL: So what I think you are saying is that if we look at ourselves from a deeper Quantum Physics level, which we can experience more easily from a trance state, we sense that we are not separate and that we are interconnected with everything else. That new perception distorts time because when we become one with everything else, there is no sense of time. There is only a sense of time when we view things as separate, which is done only in the conscious waking thinking state. So from that direction, Quantum Physics does explain time distortion based on our subjective experience of time.
When you're talking about being able to distort time by moving beyond the limitations of our senses into these altered states, does this relate to the principles of Quantum Physics or does this relate more to other areas of research you have studied?
AJ: It relates to both. You have to understand that the political aspect of Quantum Physics is very slow to recognize what I am saying. Much of what I have studied comes from my research of meditative experiences from various authors and from the experiences of others, and... from my own experiences of mediation. These studies agree or fit very well with Quantum and space-time physics. What I am saying here is that the moment we are in an altered state, the limitations of the senses change. When you see the interconnectedness with objects, you begin to view the whole world as one unit, rather than separated into objects.
Whenever you have a separation in space, time is separated too, because time is another dimension of space. Time and distance are just two ways of explaining separation of objects. If you travel one mile from your house to work, you can either say I traveled one mile as a distance or you can say I went five minutes. Five minutes is also representing distance (given a velocity). So time and distance are really not two different things at all.
[Debra Lindemann intends to publish additional parts of her interview with Dr. Jain at a later time. Debra may be contacted by email at: CNI Debra@aol.com.]
Original file name: CNI - Time Distortion.Debra
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