From dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Wed Aug 14 00:02:21 1991 Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!rutgers!usc!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: whitley Strieber/reliability Message-ID: <1991Aug14.040221.1802@bilver.uucp> Date: 14 Aug 91 04:02:21 GMT References: <1991Aug11.003214.25098@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Distribution: na Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 187 In article <1991Aug11.003214.25098@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes: >In article , steve@ram.prpa.philips.com (Steven J. Kudlak) writes... >>Well when I read Strieber's fiction books I almost fainted. The things >>he posits in his fiction books, such as >Wolfen< and the >Night Chruch< >>resonate very clearly with his visitor experiences. It is almost as if >>some version of his dreams sprung to life. This is a very clear. He also > I have something here that you guys should be aware of..it's Whit's last Newsletter (in part) and a response from a friend of mind on the BBS side of the UFO echoes..his comments, I thought were quite lucid. I will leave it up to you to persue it a bit further., Bear in mind than not everything is what it seems to be and (in my opinion) Strieber is a rather strange and un-reliable character: ------Begin included text ------------------------------------------------ "The Communion Letter" - cover letter from the Spring Issue, 1991; Volume 3, No. 1. Copyright 1991, Wilson and Neff, Inc. Dora Ruffner, Editor, PO Box 10235, San Antonio, TX 78210-0235. Anne Strieber, Executive Editor, 496 La Guardia Place, New Yo rk, NY 10012 ============================================================================= Dear Reader: I would like to thank you for your patronage of the Communion Letter. Your subscription ends with this issue, and we are not taking new subscriptions or renewals. A list of available back issues is printed on the reverse of this letter for those who may be interested in collecting. I had always intended to run the newsletter about two years, and that amount of time has now passed. During this period the Communion Letter has gained a large circulation and, I believe, published some remarkable articles. But all good things must come to an end. I am not a UFO researcher and do not wish to endure the continued media attack that is associated with being involved in this field. In addition, the so-called "UFO-ologists" are probably the cruellest, nastiest and craziest people I have ever encountered. Their interpretation of the visitor experience is rubbish from beginning to end. The "abduction reports" that they generate are not real. They are artifacts of hypnosis and cultural conditioning. What we are experiencing is a perceptual anomaly that is sufficiently ambiguous and intense that it demands explanation. It is something that human beings have been experiencing for a long time. It is the cause of religion, of mythology, of folklore. Presently it is the cause of the "alien abduction" belief. What is *really* behind our experiences? We are. This is a human thing. However, I would also say that it indicates that we--and our world--are vastly different, and far more strange, than we have ever dreamed, or dared imagine. With that I leave you. Whitley Strieber ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 07-22-91 21:19 From: John Powell Subj: Communion Letter, Bye Bye Strieber sure had a lot to say about a lot of topics in the Farewell issue of The Communion Letter. ("The Communion Letter" from the Spring Issue, 1991; Volume 3, No. 1. Copyright 1991, Wilson and Neff, Inc. Dora Ruffner, Editor, PO Box 10235, San Antonio, TX 78210-0235. Anne Strieber, Executive Editor, 496 La Guardia Place, New York, NY 10012) The most important points that Strieber is apparently trying very hard to make are also the most difficult ones to decipher and understand. I suppose that shouldn't be a surprise since Strieber, given his training and profession, deals with a version of reality that at best is highly exaggerated and at worst is completely artificial. (I also found it unnecessarily tedious to have to read "between the lines", a practice not generally required when examining genuine expository writing. In what follows I have tried to avoid writing "between the lines" unless Strieber provided no other reasonable alternative.) Please note that my questions are mostly rhetorical or at least not directly at you personally... First, some of Whit's more easily extractable comments. Here's what he has to say about... UFOlogists: -+--------- "...are probably the cruellest, nastiest and craziest people I have ever encountered. Their interpretation of the visitor experience is rubbish from beginning to end. The "abduction reports" that they generate are not real. They are artifacts of hypnosis and cultural conditioning." "...looney certitudes offered by UFO fanatics." "Jealousy is an illness, and it is highly contagious, and the UFO community is sick to death with it." "...the so-called "typical abduction experience" that has been concocted by the UFO community." "...the [Communion] groups were operating as an alternative to a very nasty little cult run by people so startlingly ignorant of what they are doing that they do not even understand that they are brainwashing their victims." I was rather disappointed to see Strieber take such a wide brush to what is actually a very large and highly varied group of people who mostly have in commom a genuine desire to find out what is going on. Why would Strieber try to turn tens of thousands of people away from ufologists and ufology? Especially when these people are at the core of the phenomenon... UFOlogy: -+------ "...the UFO community, whom they [Strieber's scientist friends] regard as a kooky backwater plagued by the fuzzy thinking of losers with poor academic credentials, who are motivated by superstition and insane jealousies." "Until organizations like MUFON and CUFOS disintegrate or become discredited, and the press is allowed to discover that there are people with strong and respected credentials working on the subject, further progress is unlikely." "...the UFO junk, with the attendant risk of being made into a hypnotized zombie." "I do not accept most UFO doctrine, at least not as it is expressed by American believers." These and other similar statements were equally disappointing. Strieber effectively trashes the people involved in trying to find out what is going on, the organizations they are associated with in trying to find out what is going on, the media, and the government. Aside from Strieber himself what's left? Are we suppossed to think that _everybody_ sucks except Whitley? Strieber's whining is incessant, I don't know how he defines "poor academic credentials", nor do I know who his scientist friends are, but it seems to me that _someone_ is unfamiliar with the rosters of MUFON and CUFOS. Furthermore, I find the idea of Strieber sitting in judgement over all of these people and their collective contributions to be something best suited to what Strieber does best - fiction. UFOs: -+--- "The presence of UFO's, at least, has already been proven. The problem is not one of whether or not they exist, but rather, what they are." Strieber says that he is "not a UFO researcher" yet he comments on Roswell: "I was able to do some research into this affair which must remain confidential, but it convinced me that the Air Force obtained, without a doubt, some material from the desert north of Roswell, New Mexico, that it could not explain at the time." Mildly stated and cloaked in confidentiality his opinion is more interesting in light of his feelings on CUFOS and the recent work Randle & Schmitt have done. Yes, the presence of UFOs _is_ clearly established, to my knowledge without help from Strieber, and a large amount of congratulation is due the very people and organizations that Strieber wishes to see discredited or destroyed outright - strange sentiments coming from someone who claims to also want the truth found. Strieber's contends that the visitors and the visitor experience are a natural part of the evolution of humankind and he makes fairly clear a significant part of his understanding of that process saying that it "begins, always, with destruction." However, according to Strieber, we should welcome this destruction and the destructors and not fear them. "What is the secret of the lamb lying down with the lion? The lamb sees that the full expression of his life requires him to surrender to the lion. To fully express himself he must serve nature, and so also the lion." "The lion is not evil because he eats the lamb. Rather, he is simply hungry, and he has a right to his hunger." "Earth is fat with flesh: she is aching for the days of harvest." Personally, I'd like a wee bit more choice in the matter... He suggests that we can contribute to, perhaps hasten, this process if we "abandon myth, abandon folklore, abandon culture, abandon all the engines of deceit..." He flatly states that the "only way to proceed is to accept that the soul has an objective reality and - at the present moment - we haven't got the faintest idea what that means." We also don't have any evidence... Strieber treats his friends about as well as he seems to treat everyone else: "Why would it be that one journalist came to my cabin and had an encounter, and another did not? Why would a weak, hysterical fool have elaborate contact, while a well-educated, competent scientist would not?" Strieber concludes the final issue of the Communion Letter with: "Will we meet again?" I hope not. I do not give him special credit for popularizing the Abduction phenomenon since Hopkins and Fowler, among others, were doing that long before Strieber got reamed. Strieber, and the Communion Letter, have clearly (IMHO) helped to create and spread disinformation and I cannot help but think that this might have been intentional. His fictionalization of the Roswell event in Majestic was more adolescent and humorous than it was accurate or informative and their support of Moore, an admitted gov't agent, is more than indictment enough. My only concern is for all those people who are now not only cutoff from his minor information but who may also be, if they obey Strieber's directives, essentially isolated from the serious prospect of help and recovery. Thanks, take care. John. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" From dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Mon Aug 12 22:28:22 1991 Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!rutgers!usc!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Communion question Keywords: communion Message-ID: <1991Aug13.022822.10504@bilver.uucp> Date: 13 Aug 91 02:28:22 GMT References: Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 97 In article ewf2@ra.MsState.Edu (Juice S. Aaron) writes: > >A few months ago I picked up and read the vast majority of >the book called Communion. What the book had to say >was quite interesting and sometimes somewhat shocking >for me. I spent many a night wondering if big ugly >aliens with spindly arms would come waltzing down my >hall (or if they already had and I just didn't remember >it.) Then I heard that there was a movie based on >the book and after waiting millenia for it to be >released on video was able to watch it. >I noticed that the screenplay for the movie was >written by Streiber himself so I thought >we'll get the real picture that was presented in >the book. Now I watched the movie and afterwards >I found myself wondering if it was actually true to the >book. Several minor little things were changed, (such >as the gender of the psychiatrist he went to) but nothing >major seemed out of place until the scene near the end with >the aliens in suit coats and the strangeness that went on then. >I seem to remember the movie having something really >out of place near the end that involved the aliens >dressed up like humans who removed their faces to show >human faces under them. I don't seem to remember that >from the book. (Not to say it wasn't in the book as I >didn't read some bits of the book as well as I read other >bits) >Did the movie stick to the book or did streiber take >liberties with his own supposedly true story? In my opinion and frankly, the movie absolutely sucked donkey dust..it meandered, and was boring. The BOOK was much better...a lot more scarier. On the BBS side of the UFO echoes..we have been indulging in quite a bit of "Whitley bashing"...and for some good reasons. There's _something_ about Strieber that, in my opinion, just does not ring "true". Also, it did NOT help that Strieber (in my opinion) has associated himself with a KNOWN Govt dis-info agent, such as Bill Moore (of Moore and Berlitz fame) and I've watched how Strieber has "changed" his tune over the last 2 years. Strieber, in a letter that has (by now) been widely circulated, has discontinued his "Communion Newsletter" and done an about face on some of his views of UFOlogists. In short, he blasted them. I can only conclude (my opinion) that whether or not Strieber had his views changed by his own experiences or by "other means", is that he was perhaps "gotten to" by agents of dis-info. It has _also_ crossed my mind that Strieber could also be PART of the dis-info campaigns. Like I said, there's something about Strieber that just don't seem right. If the GOVT wanted to know just how far the abduction syndrome had progessed...what better way then to set up a GREAT cover story with a well known writer to get people's NAMES when they poured out their stories in the "Communion Newsletter". But then again, this is just one of my theories :-) One of the covert methods of disinformation is to impart partial truth and partial fiction in such a way that it neatly detours you from reaching the necessary conclusions to perhaps take action (if any). Personally, I have kept _uppermost_ in my mind, the FACT that this guy IS a writer and I've not ever hopped on the "Strieber bandwagon" (such as it has been). My opinion is that he _may_ have had a real experience but just _what kind_ of "experience" is that to want? I just read the "Father Young" postings that were put here re: Strieber and found them most illuminating. I also *still* of the opinion that nothing of GOD would abduct people and mutilate cattle, nor cause undue stress or seek to possess the soul of "the chosen" in a horrific and non-volitional way. I, for one, am no way interested in taking up Strieber's FICTION as the truth and am diametrically opposed to Strieber's methods of "getting closer" to _his_ version of reality. If you want a _better_ work to study abduction phenomena, I would recommend Dr Edith Fiore's books on her case studies of abduction victims. It would save you from all the BS of wading through Strieber's "work". One of her better known books is called "Encounters" and is a good book, in my opinion. Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" From dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Tue Aug 13 23:47:41 1991 Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!rutgers!usc!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Project Majestic Question Message-ID: <1991Aug14.034741.1561@bilver.uucp> Date: 14 Aug 91 03:47:41 GMT References: <55210001@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> <1991Aug12.111120.1@ego.uh.cwru.edu> Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 47 In article <1991Aug12.111120.1@ego.uh.cwru.edu> manfredi@ego.uh.cwru.edu writes: >In article <55210001@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com>, trey@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Trey Wedge) writes: >> Has anyone seen the MJ-12 or Project Majestic text from Cooper here, >> or somewhere? A better question is... has anyone saved it? > > Q: Are you referring to Bill Cooper here? If so, the *best* authority on > him (IMHO) is Mary Ann Hawk, co-director of the Cleveland UFOlogy Pro- > ject in Cleveland, Ohio. She has attended conferences and seminars > (on UFOs and psychotronics) all over the world, and as a consequence has > come across Mr. Cooper and/or his material very often. She is always > happy to share. If you would like further information on Ms. Hawk or > C.U.P., please E-mail me. > Gee..and I though Timmy Bennett was the best authority on Bill Cooper..darn.. looks like I was _wrong_ (Inside joke folks :-) > A friend who is not on the net wants a copy of something that >> I had seen on the net in alt.conspiracy about a year ago, about >> the Project Majestic and links to the FBI CIA etc. >> >> Anyone have any info? Please reply by E-mail if possible. > > FYI: Majestic, by Whitley Streiber, is an excellent *reference* source on > ^^^^^^^^ > MJ-12. He wrote the book after interviewing many people involved with/ > related to the project. > >No disclaimer. WE'RE ALL ONE. I'm sorry to have to break this to you....but if you are regarding Whitley Strieber as an "excellent source of information on MJ-12" than you are sadly mis-informed. Whitley Strieber is NOT a UFO investigator..if Whitley got his background on Majestic (his FICTIONAL book), then it was from a Govt DIS-INFO agent, William L. Moore. Please do your research more thoroughly! Don -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order"