Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 51 Friday, September 29th 1989 Today's Topics: Re: Bill Moore As 'savior' Of The Ufological Community Re: Why Disinformation? MJ Article on Soviets Bill Moore Re: And what of Socorro? Re: Bill Moore as 'Savior' of the UFOlogical Community Re: Bill Moore as 'Savior' of the UFOlogical Community Scientology and ufos NAV Re: Bill Moore As 'savior' Of The Ufological Community In Reply Re: Physics ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!mcorbin Subject: Re: Bill Moore As 'savior' Of The Ufological Community Date: 28 Sep 89 01:06:00 GMT Jim, > I somehow can't help thinking that Moore's role in the > "betrayal" of Paul > Bennewitz is being overplayed. Yes, in the end, it was Perhaps so. However, we have to start somewhere with this mess. Moore is only a speck in the overall picture. I suspect that this disinformation thing goes much deeper than any of us would care to admit at this point, however we must become aware of the symptoms. I noted in a previous message from Keenan Anderson in which he states that it all sounds 'paranoid'. This seems to be as common a word nowadays as 'disinformation'. But good 'ol common sense and cautious apprehension is *not* paranoia. The symptoms of disninformation are very clear: the introduction of sensationalistic and beyond believable claims that completely defy all fact and truth. In today's ufology, people have replaced hard core truth and evidence with belief systems that support nothing, only wild speculation based upon so called 'enlightenment', among other things. This is not to say that some of this outrageous stuff could not have an explanation in ufology, but I don't think that this can be proven, nor can it be proven that ufonauts like Tibetan music and strawberry ice cream and, of course, human body parts at the Dulce Hilton. There is a clear attempt at undermining society's ability to understand this problem in human terms. This is where the problem lies. Although this phenomenon could prove to be extraterrestrial or ultra-dimensional, it does not supercede our science's ability to understand it, for it clearly interacts with our realm of reality. This would be grounded in truth and fact. So, with that in mind, where do we go from here? Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!mcorbin Subject: Re: Why Disinformation? Date: 28 Sep 89 01:19:00 GMT Hi, Michael! Glad to see you here. > From: infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com > From: MacLeod > Moore's recent note, quoted here, still dances around the > nagging question: > if the horrible parts ofthe Lear-Cooper-Bennewitz story are > government > disinformation, why were they issued? What purposes does > the release of > such grisly stuff serve? Unfortunately, I think most of > the possible > answers to this are unpleasant, so I'm not surprised that > this question is > not asked more often. I think that it has become quite clear why. First, we must look at the incredible damage that this revelation has done to ufology. In and of itself, these claims had the appearance of urgency and concern. It created such a stir that it is still being discussed and talked about. Linda Howe devoted a large part of her book, Alien Harvest' to it. It tied in so nicely with the MJ-12 material, too. As we have seen, several credible ufologists 'jumped on the bandwagon' and rode with this. It became like a small pebble rolling down a snowy hill, collecting snow upon itself until it was a giant boulder. I can see that it has served at least two purposes: 1) If and when it is declared to be a wild hoax, all the credible people that have subscribed to it will find their credibility damaged almost beyond repair. Stanton Friedman is a good example of this. He has appeared as an overwhelming total die hard believer in MJ-12. What will happen to him? The same thing that happened to Keyhoe: He will be made to look like a total fool. 2) The 'powers that be' that want this subject completely out of the hands of the civilian sector have found that fear and oppression are the best and most effective tools. Thus, enter underground soup vats and ETs creating Christ and on and on. Psychologically, this has been the most devastating blow to the overall society in that it has undermined major belief foundations and rendered them without value. Secondly, it has instilled such a fear in the public that a lot of them cannot deal with it and lose their cookies, so to speak. This move has been effective at making people afraid of the phenomenon, and a lot of them want no part of it. Bottom line is that the UFO community has been fragmented more by this and continues to spiral out of control downward, all the while making this whole thing look as stupid as possible before the other parts of society that might have the clout to do something about it. Can you imagine any Congressman backing figures such as John Lear or Bill Cooper? Absolutely not! What does this do for us serious folk? I think that it is time that we take the reins here and stop letting people such as Bill Moore, Bill Cooper, John Lear and the others represent and speak for us. We are hanging by a very thin thread of credibility here and if we don't make our move, it will most certainly be too late to recover and regroup. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Bill.English Subject: MJ Date: 28 Sep 89 16:49:00 GMT MIKE, I just spoke with Bill Knell.....All information is being transmitted to us and will be here within the week. we will upload everything in article form for you so that you will be able to put it directly on the system should you decide to.....this stuff is wild... Kind regards, Bill English -- Bill English - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bill.English@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!mcorbin Subject: Article on Soviets Date: 28 Sep 89 23:00:00 GMT To All: I am looking for a news clipping that appeared a few months ago on either AP or UPI dealing with the Soviets and the space station whereby they went to the space station and found a piece of material stuck to the exterior hatch door which had writing on it. Anyone with this article is asked to please upload it. Thanks, Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rcw Subject: Bill Moore Date: 29 Sep 89 04:39:34 GMT After reading through 1,000 lines of the magazine article, I have one question: who cares what Bill Moore has to say? I couldn't find a single thing (except a few things in exhibit 'A') that could be independently verified. Why is so much attention focused on this guy? All of the people involved sound rather shady, and even the magazine article was a bit heavy on hyperbole. Forgive me if I am too much on the outside looking in. Robert White rcw@scicom.alphacdc.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rcw Subject: Re: And what of Socorro? Date: 29 Sep 89 03:55:24 GMT In article <7510.251F262B@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Jim.Speiser@f20.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) writes: >Robert... > >The date is in question, but is alternately given as July 2nd or July 7th, >1947. The location of the Brazel wreckage is near the town of Corona, NM; >the location of the Barnett crash is somewhere in the Plains of San >Agustin. > >Jim Corona, NM - Population 236, 31 Miles SW Vaughn, NM, 100 Miles N-NE of Socorro. It stands to reason that 50-60 people in this town were alive in July, 1947 who are still living there. Probably more. Why don't we drive down and ask them their impressions? Vaughn, NM - Weather records should be available for the dates in question. I should be able to pin down any unusual activity. Keep in mind that severe weather is common and localized in the area this time of year, and that there is a certain probability that I will fail. I will reproduce the records verbatim on the info.paranet as soon as I can access them. Plains of San Agustin - An extremely large area, about 160 square miles. Coordinates given are too vague to be of much help. I would start by inquiring into the records at the Socorro County Court house to locate the Barnett? ranch, then see if any old air photos of the area exist. (A long shot, but perhaps they do). Just curious, but when was the VLA Radio Telescope installation built? This may seem stupid to some people, but a lot of mysteries don't stand up to even a cursory examination of the facts. So I'll plod along and verify what is in my power to verify. You guys got me hooked ;-). Robert White rcw@scicom.alphacdc.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: Bill Moore as 'Savior' of the UFOlogical Community Date: 28 Sep 89 17:27:22 GMT I don't think the questions posed by Sheridan can be answered properly due to the ambiguity of the original premise. Are the questions couched in the context of an investigators who is convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that he KNOWS the true story or is it in the context of an investigator who isn't sure what the true story is but he IS sure that there is a true story out there and he needs to find it. Also, a lot would depend on just what the true story is, if in fact the investigator does know the truth. While some might be comfortable in answering NO to the questions under any circumstances, I would not. For example, if the story was not about UFO's but was about espionage of Atomic secrets during WWII, I would not hesitate to betray a stranger or acquaintance. Things are simply not black and white in EVERY situation. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: Bill Moore as 'Savior' of the UFOlogical Community Date: 28 Sep 89 17:37:44 GMT In regard to Moores assertion that he was doing in Paul B. at the behest of Uncle Sam -- Why do you claim the real culprit is Uncle Sam, not Moore? What evidence is there that what Moore has said about Uncles invlvovement is true? Maybe Moore is making that up too? Aside from us knowing that both Moore and Doty are actual people, what evidence is there that anything that either of them say or do is "for real"? -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Sky.Diver Subject: Scientology and ufos Date: 29 Sep 89 00:06:29 GMT I have just recently discovered this echo and read your comments on LRH and Scn. I am interested in more info on this subject. Some questions. 1. What is OTO? 2. >LRH is known to have been involved with the OTO in Los Angeles. Known by who? What is your reference on this. 3. >Interestingly, when you confront the Church of Scientology with such stories, Who in the church was confronted or WHICH church of Scn. was contacted? Was this the "official" church response to such inquiries? 4. What is "Nevada Aerial Research" 5. Why should we give more weight to what NAV says about LRH's theories than to what the man on the street says about LRH's theories? 6. (comment) I have read several of LRH's books and the only one I recall having anything to do with e.t.'s is "Scientology: A History of Man". Since I read it a new printing has come out with 2 added previously unreleased chapters. It is not an ordinary book. 7. Who is M. Cannon? I must have missed his/her comments. Would enjoy reading them though. 8. >"wake up" humans before a series of destabilizing actions and events occurred which would throw human civilization into a tailspin. (comment) This alligns with what I have read, however in my experience the "actions and events" were always clearly indicated to be man's self distruction through nuclear war and nothing else. (LRH was a nuclear physicist among other things.) Would enjoy hearing from you (or anyone else) regarding these points. Also thanks to all who are responsible for making this service available. Good day all... John Ryder -- Sky Diver - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sky.Diver@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Sky.Diver Subject: NAV Date: 29 Sep 89 00:35:36 GMT Almost forgot, how can I get a copy of the information that NAV recently published? Thanks, J.R. -- Sky Diver - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sky.Diver@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!mcorbin Subject: Re: Bill Moore As 'savior' Of The Ufological Community Date: 29 Sep 89 17:05:00 GMT Jim, > I don't think the questions posed by Sheridan can be > answered properly due to the ambiguity of the original > premise. Are the questions couched in the context of an > While some might be comfortable in answering NO to the > questions under any circumstances, I would not. For > example, if the story was not about UFO's but was about > espionage of Atomic secrets during WWII, I would not > hesitate to betray a stranger or acquaintance. Things are > simply not black and white in EVERY situation. I agree with this to an extent. In any case there are circumstances. However, with the evidence that has been amassed in this instance, it appears that there may be evidence to indicate a motive 'couched' in ego and greed. In this instance, I would say that what has taken place was well below the ethics quotient. As I said before, I could be off a bit in my assessment of this situation and will be reviewing a copy of Moore's speech as soon as it arrives to see for myself. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f401.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bob.Fletcher Subject: In Reply Date: 30 Sep 89 03:57:00 GMT ->Well Bob ive been a user of the NSW node for some time and am a firm believer ->in UFO's and EBE's. Frank: I am afraid that I never seem to take much notice of the origin lines. Anyway its nice to have you in Melbourne. ->Im mainly interested in amateur radio/radio astronomy, whilst in perth i had a ->rather large uhf/shf array and a 4.5m dish, unfortunately they went with the ->house..(sad). It seems that you like me have traveled around a bit. I too have spent some time in Perth. In fact it was there years ago that I was sitting in a friends car at North Beach looking out over the ocean at night, when we sighted a most splendid sight of a "ball of fire" with pieces of fire falling of making a splendid "fireworks" display in the night sky. That was a satellite burning up and after seeing this I can see how some people report the unusual. I remember several years ago listening to Sam Voron VK2BVS, talking to someone on 11 metres, (Yes pre CB), about a group within WIA that was studying UFO's etc. Do you know if that group still exists? I have had a daytime sighting of a UFO when I was a kid but thats another story. ->Ihave a couple of rather good star chart packages that may be of interest to ->users with pc or cpm based machines. These sound to be of interest, I have one called "THE_SKY" I guess I should start a file area for such things. Please upload them and drop me a message in "General" if they are Australian I will send them straight over to the USA. Otherwise Mike will have to ask. The CP/M one should be of particular interest to all those CP/M users who seem to have been forgotten these days. ->Im also a professional television/film director, im currently researching a ->documentary on the use of the Dept. of Defence facility at Cabarlah QLD. There ->has been some discussion that it is being used for activities connected with ->ufo/et research. ->More on that later. Definitely, I hope ParaNet will not be forgotten, this is most interesting. Regards, Bob...... PS. Transferred reply to UFO area. Also have written to you privately. -- Bob Fletcher - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bob.Fletcher@f401.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f401.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Luigi.Martin Subject: Re: Physics Date: 30 Sep 89 05:03:00 GMT Hi Marc, Now that I am thinking about it, it seems that nuclear propulsion is not a good idea. The weight of the fuel would rule out the possibility of any of the "actobatics" which can bee seen in ufo's ( even if no sheilding was used). This applies to both fission & fusion. I seem to remember reading that nuclear reactions convert a very small percentage of the fuel mass into energy; so that you are left with a most of your original fuel mass, and one hell of a radiation problem. Even fusion produces some radiation. It's similar to the problem with rocket propulsion: you need tonnes of rocket fuel just to move a few kilos into orbit. Antimatter, on the other hand, is a much better propositi. In theory, 100% of the fuel is converted into energy, so less fuel is needed to achieve the same results as fission/fusion. However, matter-antimatter anhiliation produces some degree of radiation ( I don't know how much, of how dangerous ). At this point, this theory has a few problems: the anhiliation process produces very high energy photons ( probably somewhere in the gamma-ray or in the cosmic-ray region) , I don't know how useable thrust can be obtained from these photons. Another problem would be obtaining & storing sufficient quantities of antimatter ( manufacturing it is not worth the expenditure ). >>> Luigi Martin <<< -- Luigi Martin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Luigi.Martin@f401.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,nbires,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,nbires,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************************************************************************** End of Info-ParaNet Newsletter ********************************************************************************