Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 89 Tuesday, November 28th 1989 Today's Topics: It's happening again Re: Bill Cooper's lecture in L.A. Re: Bill Cooper's Lecture In L.a. Re: Pu/wolf 424 Re: Bill Cooper Re: Oz Effect Re: Hoagland Predictions Re: A Current Affair 11/17/89 Re: Cooper, Cooper, Cooper Re: A Current Affair 11/17/89 Re: Project Blue Book - Aka A Govt Coverup Re: Info-paranet Newsletter Re: Info-paranet Newsletter Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos Re: The Secret Govt.. Re: Don Sudduth - The non-physical reality of UFOs Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos Reply to Mike Corbin Hmmm... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Torson Subject: It's happening again Date: 26 Nov 89 21:05:00 GMT Some time ago, Bill Cooper appeared on the scene. He started by saying some fascinating things that sounded like they just might be true. However, most of his statements were (and still are) unsubstantiated. Before long, his claims became more and more absurd. Also, he started making personal attacks on people rather than discussing the subject at hand. The net result was a large disruption in the exchange of information and ideas. A similar thing happened with John Lear. Now, it seems to be happening all over again, this time with T.S. Bennett. Some of his early messages seemed to make some sense and to be based on a reasonable understanding of science and technology. Bennett has made the valid criticism that some of the files and messages merely repeat and embellish unsubstantiated information. However, he is now doing exactly the same thing! Some of his recent statements are clearly false. Others are dubious at best. When asked to provide substantiation, Bennett has often failed to give an adequate response. His statements continue to become more and more absurd. And, he has recently begun making personal attacks on people. Does all this sound familiar? I have noticed that Bennett has been relatively quite the ParaNet echo. He has been more active (and more absurd) on the UFONET echo. And, he has been the most absurd and abrasive on the Fido echo. Perhaps he is tailoring his comments according to the level of absurdity that he expects will be tolerated on the different echoes. Why is this happening? I don't know. However, I would suggest that we stop wasting time and effort trying to respond to Bennett when he makes ridiculous statements. -- Jim Torson - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Torson@f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio Subject: Re: Bill Cooper's lecture in L.A. Date: 27 Nov 89 17:54:00 GMT Ha ha..... oh sorry about that, I was just thinking about how we set up the soviets in power.... Poor Cooper. Bill has taken a turn for the worse I fear. My biggest gripe with that guy is NOT that he is taking extreme points of view. In many ways that is healthy. My gripe is that he is attempting personal gain and always promising "more later" and later never seems to come as doesn't "more". Marc -- Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio Subject: Re: Bill Cooper's Lecture In L.a. Date: 27 Nov 89 17:56:00 GMT Tell me about it. How anyone with such "credentials " can distort a basic tenet of astrophysics is sinful. Why plutonium anyway? There are many more powerful methods for doing a similar thing! -- Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio Subject: Re: Pu/wolf 424 Date: 27 Nov 89 18:04:00 GMT Bryon Note that the "fan" image was an artifact of the method used in sweeping the sky. Many other galaxies are still to be found. Also, lacking in the 3-d image is a GOOD 3d scale to illustrate that actual depth to which each point is mapped. One thing though: the image DOES illustrate a very important feature of galactic cluster structure: clumping/stringing. Note that many of the galactic features appear clumped together (features as in individual galaxies) and that they also appear as if they are arranged in strings. (NOT the same thing as comsic strings etc...thats another story). I found the map quite intriguing for these reasons. Many people also find that this image causes them to feel very small like you felt upon seeing it. To know that we were just one small insignificant dot in the array.... Not to worry though, we can still get lost in our own solar system! Nevermind the galaxy! Marc -- Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio Subject: Re: Bill Cooper Date: 27 Nov 89 18:17:00 GMT Jim Interesting thoughts on Cooper. I think Cooper is a self seeking individual to the extent that he has come to BELIEVE those things that are part fiction and part reality. The fictional items are those that he (and only he knows) has added to the facts as WE already know them. He has always seemed obsessed with being "the contact", "the one in the know", "the martyr". Such a complex is self destructive but the martyr HAS to believe what he/she is saying. I think Bill believes it and thus his sincerity was GENUINE. I think many of his facts, especially those that many here at Paranet have shown to be obvious fabrications, are inexorably tied up with the realities of what he knows to be of any use at all. However, being the eternal optimist, I await more evidence.....! Marc -- Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio Subject: Re: Oz Effect Date: 27 Nov 89 18:19:00 GMT Bob Very nice insights into temporal lobe epilepsy! I am glad you mentioned what you did. I was concerned that Whitely Streiber might have such an affliction although he tries to counter this publicly. I have not judged him at all, just remained cautiously open... Marc -- Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio Subject: Re: Hoagland Predictions Date: 27 Nov 89 18:21:00 GMT Jim I told him before the Neptune encounter that what he was saying was nothing we didnt know already! I have gone over that document and I cant in good faith argue with him because so much is being withheld as an ace in the hole by him! Agree? -- Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio Subject: Re: A Current Affair 11/17/89 Date: 27 Nov 89 18:22:00 GMT I would be interested in how one goes about and gets an "enhancement" done of tapes/photos? -- Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio Subject: Re: Cooper, Cooper, Cooper Date: 27 Nov 89 18:24:00 GMT Bryon That "force" that you mention Cooper is driven by seems to be MONEY. I live too far away to dive into his personal life, but you may wish to to settle the matter once and for all. Get someone to pry. [hideous laugh] -- Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio Subject: Re: A Current Affair 11/17/89 Date: 27 Nov 89 18:26:00 GMT Note that the position of the light in the background is very important since this does much to distort the effect in the window. We used to call this in magic, a shadowbox illusion. Much can be done with this effect and by tipping one's head closer to the light source, the head grows dis-proportionally larger than the body. Someone has GOT to get a layout of the that room. -- Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio Subject: Re: Project Blue Book - Aka A Govt Coverup Date: 27 Nov 89 18:31:00 GMT James Unfortunately you fall into this GRAY area category (no pun intended). If you cannot talk, then dont even bother to say "ive got a secret, ive got a secret...." It does NOTHING to assist investigations and all it does is antagonize people. I sympathize with you of course, but wonder how much you could give to the science. I expect you wish you could give a LOT more but know that you cannot. To that end I suppose it is rather frustrating to you to have to remain somewhat silent, but to say you know more than you can tell sounds Bill Cooperish (sorry, I know that is a BAD analogy!). Anyway, Im glad you share what you do, but hope you will share more someday. See you Marc -- Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio Subject: Re: Info-paranet Newsletter Date: 27 Nov 89 18:32:00 GMT Interesting note Jim: How many prime time news programs have featured UFO related topics lately? Does this compare with any other time in recent history (last 10 years) when UFO's dominated the press for a time? Just curious... -- Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Clark.Matthews Subject: Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos Date: 28 Nov 89 00:44:00 GMT > In his book "Dimensions", Dr. Vallee strongly emphasizes > the > psychological nature of UFO encounters. His research has > shown that > historically, UFO encounters have been perceived to be the > common > myths of the time period such as the miracle at Fatima, > Portugal in > 1917. "The events at Fatima involve luminous spheres, > lights with > strange colors, a feeling of 'heat waves'--all physical > characteristics commonly associated with UFOs...They also > encompass > prophecy and a loss of ordinary consciousness on the part > of > witnesses--what we have called the psychic component of UFO > sightings" (p 174). Dr. Vallee even implies that much of > human > history may have been shaped by the psychological effects > of UFO > encounters and that the shape may have a purpose. Don, interesting that you should comment on "Dimensions" -- I've been reading it myself and it has given me pause, too. But it is worth noting that Valee draws striking parallels between UFO abductions and CEIIIs and the literature and folklore of creatures like sylphs, nymphs, trolls, dwarves, leprechauns, etc. Let me pause here so readers can consider this. UFOs = leprechauns, trolls, sylphs, etc. ... OK, now that the laughter has subsided, let me (in fairness to Dr. Vallee) write that he makes his case admirably and persuasively. By quoting contemporary accounts from Paracelsus, Rev. Kirk of Scotland, and others, Vallee DOES point out striking parallels for modern researchers to ponder. But where does this leave us? How the heck do we approach the public (at least the public that doesn't read the National Enquirer) with news like this? Vallee admits the problem and says, rightly or wrongly, it has been ignored by every major modern researcher. But so what!? What if there is a parallel reality and these things stem from it? They seem to be made of material -- propelled and guided somehow -- and, yes, they do seem to be somewhat vulnerable to the elements and to weapons. In other words, whether they come from Zeta II Reticuli, Tau Ceti, Atlantis, Alfenheim -- and whether they're full of aliens, Atlanteans or Niebelungs -- there is still a physical reality that should be foremost in our minds. After all, the people we're trying to persuade probably won't believe it at this point until one of the things dents their BMW. (Or they find it in their lunch at the 21 Club.) So, with due respect to Dr. Vallee -- and God knows he deserves respect -- I must say "this way lies madness". Even if we suspect that it *might* not... Best, Clark PS -- Know where I could find a copy of Messengers of Deception? -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: The Secret Govt.. Date: 27 Nov 89 18:45:00 GMT True, the beast is *possible* now but it would take tremendous resources and a whole lot of people to actually implement. If you follow any of the stories about the large scale systems that the US gvt has tried to implement for DOD, IRS, Treasury, etc, etc, you get a feel for how difficult it is to do. Some have had millions and millions invested and still don't work and that is with everyone "on board" and trying to make it work. Can you imagine how hard it would be to do it surreptitiously? Sure, NSA can do the intercepts and compile the collected data but that is far different then having online access AND the ability to go back in and change the data to wipe someone out. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: Don Sudduth - The non-physical reality of UFOs Date: 27 Nov 89 18:50:00 GMT Actually, this is in reference to Don Sudduth's file where he says "to ignore these reports (abduction) is to ignore the vast amount of evidence". What evidnece is he refering to???????? The only 'evidence' is the reports. There is virtually nothing in the way of evidence. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Don.Sudduth Subject: Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos Date: 28 Nov 89 04:07:00 GMT Sorry Jim, you're correct! What I meant to say is 'To ignore these reports is to ignore the vast amount of testimony' not 'evidence'. -- Don Sudduth - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Sudduth@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Don.Sudduth Subject: Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos Date: 28 Nov 89 04:15:00 GMT Thanks for the reply, Clark. Its good you brought up Vallee's research on the connection between UFOs and nymphs, elves, etc. You argue for the reality behind the myth. I just wanted to suggest (thru Dr. Vallee) that, perhaps, the reality IS the myth; i.e., we are only seeing (hearing, feeling) what someone else wants us to see and that what we think is reality (such as flying saucers) is really illusion. Do you think this may be possible?? Sincerely, Don Sudduth -- Don Sudduth - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Sudduth@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: taos!uucp Subject: Reply to Mike Corbin Date: 28 Nov 89 02:47:24 GMT Mike: Based on what I have read on ParaNet, I can't take Lazar's physics very seriously. I suspect that a professional physicist would feel that I am understating the situation. I'm a biologist, not a quantum mechanic so most of what I know is from secondary sources like textbooks, Scientific American, New Scientist, The Sciences, or Stephen Hawking's recent best seller. Physics isn't my specialty, but I'll try to answer your questions. Now if somebody were to offer me a piece of purported alien tissue or a culture of an ET microbe, I think I'd know how to authenticate it or how to find people who could. Elements decay by three principal routes, alpha emission, spontaneous fission and beta decay. The three controlling forces, the Electromagnetic,the Strong Nuclear and the Weak Nuclear, are well understood with theory agreeing with experiment to nine or ten decimal places in many cases. The computational magnitude of systems as complex as heavy elements precludes exact calculations even on supercomputers, but the best approximations suggest that elements of atomic number around 114 are more stable than any nearby because the nucleons (protons and neutrons) form closed or nearly closed shells. This phenomenon is analogous to the chemical inertness of helium, neon and argon because their electrons form closed shells (outside the nucleus) and there is little tendency to arrange them in other configurations so that they could form bonds to other atoms and make compounds. However, this stability is not absolute and atoms decay spontaneously with half-lives (the time for 50% to change) ranging from more than 10 to the 33 years for Hydrogen to about 10-23 seconds for some extremely short lived isotopes decaying by the Strong Force. Elements with half lives of weeks or months can be isolated in weighable amounts though doing so is difficult and dangerous, but isotopes with shorter half-lives can only be identified by their radioactive decay products. Only a few atoms of Element 109 have been made so far, but the energies of the alpha particles emitted along its decay chain made identification unambiguous. It's half-life is somewhere between a millisecond and a microsecond. Elements 110 and 111 are expected to be even less stable, so experimenters hope to jump into the Stability region where half-lives are calculated to be longer. Longer might mean 10-6 seconds or it might mean minutes or seconds. I don't know what the latest predictions are. The only way we have to make such heavy nuclei is accelerate atoms of medium weight elements such as calcium, carbon, etc. and smash them into heavy atoms such as uranium. It takes a lot of energy to overcome the electromagnetic repulsion to get the nuclei close enough so that the very short range (10-13 cm) Strong Force can bind the compound nucleus together. If the atoms have too little energy, they won't fuse, but if they have too much, they won't stay together. The new nucleus is only marginally stable at best and will fission if it has too much energy. Another problem is that the new nucleus may not have enough neutrons to be stable. If so, it will undergo beta decay as well. If any elements around 114 or higher can be made they will be important confirmation of the standard model. They will also have interesting chemistry since they will have more electrons than any know elements and some of these electrons will be in g orbitals with somewhat different properties from those in d and f orbitals. Tachyons are hypothetical particles with negative or imaginary rest mass and always travel faster than light. They have never been observed and no one knows how to search for them. Since they travel faster than light, their interactions with normal matter would conflict with relativity. Gregory Benford, a physicist and award winning SF author, has written a serious paper about a "Tachyonic Anti-Telephone" which would allow one to place a call to the past. Needless to say, this would violate causality as we understand it. Invoking tachyons to explain some unknown effect is committing the fallacy known as "Ignotus per ignotum," using one unknown to explain another. If and when tachyons are discovered, and assuming they have the requisite properties, then they may be used to explain unusual events. Now to antimatter: I didn't mean to imply that particle accelerators bombard anti-protons with positrons. High energy electrons collide with positrons and protons with antiprotons to produce exotic particles such as the W and Z mesons (the field quanta of the weak force). if anti-Hydrogen and normal Hydrogen come into contact, the positrons and the electrons will mutually annihilate to generate two gamma rays of .51 Mev. The antiprotons and protons of the nuclei will also annihilate, but they do so in a more complex fashion which produces a lot of intermediate particles. The end result is the conversion of the mass of both the normal and the anti-matter to energy according to Einstein's equation, E= mc2 (E=energy, m=totalmass, c=speed of light). The resulting gamma rays could be reflected off a heavy shield and used for propulsion as a high energy photonic drive. Such as system seems to be the only feasible energy source for interstellar flight according to the articles I've seen. Small amounts of antimatter could be made if anybody wanted to. For powering interstellar spacecraft travelling at relativistic velocities, thousands or millions of tons will be required, alas. The energy released in ordinary fusion or fission reactions is only a small fraction of this energy and comes from the binding energies of the nuclei: fission and fusion are the nuclear analogs of fermentation, while matter-antimatter annihilation is analogous to terminal oxidation. The nuclear energies are about a million times larger than the chemical energies, however, and this is why terrestrial organisms don't/can't use nuclear power in their metabolism. The yet undiscovered field particle of the gravitational force, the fourth of the known forces, is the graviton. It would travel at the speed of light. I don't know of any justification for the notion that gravitational effects propagate at 2*c. Although gravitational radiation has not been observed directly, certain binary star systems are losing energy at the rate calculated for gravitational radiation, so physicists are reasonable confident about the standard model. Gravitational radiation antennas with sufficient sensitivity are being constructed, so direct observation could occur soon. Wave guides are conductive tubes which direct electromagnetic waves (radio waves, light, etc). I have no idea if a gravitational wave guide or amplifier is even theoretically possible. The people to ask are gravitational theorists such as Kip Thorne, John Archibald Wheeler or Robert Forward (who also writes SF). Forward has designed some hypothetical anti-gravity devices based on standard physics. One involves passing the mass of a neutron star though a toroidal coil the size of a football field in a millisecond to neutralize the earth's gravity field in the center by generating the gravitational analog of the magnetic field. The other methods are even less practical. The problem is that gravity is 10 +43 times weaker than the Strong Force and thus hard to study in the laboratory. One wishes to manipulate masses of at least planetary size. Also, the gravitational field is always attractive and a function of the geometry of space-time i hope all of this wordage answers your questions. These are fascinating areas and one can go on and on. --John -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: taos!uucp Subject: Hmmm... Date: 28 Nov 89 12:47:02 GMT I just had an interesting thought...if you had been sitting on the secret of S-4 and dreamland for a long while, and had instructions to release the information to the public only if it would not cause a crisis, what better time to stage-leak the real story, as most of Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union call off the cold war? Perhaps what Reagan was telling Gorbachev in their summit conferences is that we'll all hang separately if we don't hang together. More paranoia from, Michael Sloan MacLeod (amdahl!drivax!macleod) ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************