Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 90 Wednesday, November 29th 1989 Today's Topics: Re: The Secret Govt.. Re: Don Sudduth - The non-physical reality of UFOs Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos Re: The Secret Govt.. Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos Re: The Secret Govt.. Refutation... Re: The Secret Govt.. Re: Implant Recovered Anthropogous aliens LONG ISLAND UFO NETWORK Re: The Secret Govt.. Lazar and his Amazing Saucers ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Date: Wed Nov 29 13:15:28 MST 1989 Article 833 of info.paranet: Path: scicom!paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser >From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Newsgroups: info.paranet Subject: Re: The Secret Govt.. Message-ID: <30756.257300CF@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 28 Nov 89 16:12:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:114/37 - The USOP BBS, Scottsdale AZ Lines: 17 >difficult it is to do. Some have had millions and millions >invested and still don't work and that is with everyone "on I agree, Jim, I remember the fiasco of the IRS computer system (it was a Sperry, I seem to recall). But that brings up a question. Underneath Ft. Meade, the NSA headquarters, is the world's fastest and most expensive computer, the Cray II (some say it is now a Cray III). Simple question: WHY? What the hell is it supposed to do? Just crack codes? Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Date: Wed Nov 29 13:15:35 MST 1989 Article 834 of info.paranet: Path: scicom!paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser >From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Newsgroups: info.paranet Subject: Re: Don Sudduth - The non-physical reality of UFOs Message-ID: <30757.257300D1@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 28 Nov 89 16:23:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:114/37 - The USOP BBS, Scottsdale AZ Lines: 22 Jim: I think there is one area in which anomalistics has to diverge somewhat from the scientific method, and that is that we have to admit that "reports = evidence." We simply don't know what its evidence FOR. I think its warranted in this case because it seems to me that to steadfastly maintain that anecdotal evidence is inadmissible becomes more and more UNscientific as the number of unheeded reports mounts. You're correct to imply that there is no indisputable physical evidence at this point, but how else would you have the researchers deal with the many reports? Would you advise them to ignore the situation until something solid comes along? Its also possible that the abduction researchers themselves have had a large hand in "creating" the mystery, or at least mongering it somewhat. But there is at least one good study on the situation by a highly reputable gent which shows that this is not necessarily the case. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Date: Wed Nov 29 13:15:41 MST 1989 Article 835 of info.paranet: Path: scicom!paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser >From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Newsgroups: info.paranet Subject: Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos Message-ID: <30758.257300D3@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 28 Nov 89 16:27:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:114/37 - The USOP BBS, Scottsdale AZ Lines: 14 >Sorry Jim, you're correct! What I meant to say is 'To >ignore these reports is to ignore the vast amount of >testimony' not 'evidence'. Go ahead, Don. "Mek me fill chip!" I just left a beautiful message on how "testimony = evidence" in anomalistics, and you go ahead and retract. No, no, don't apologize, don't re-retract. Its ok. I'll be fine. Just continue where you left off. Don't worry about me. No, really, I'm fine. Really! No, its ok.... -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Clark.Matthews Date: Wed Nov 29 13:15:47 MST 1989 Article 836 of info.paranet: Path: scicom!paranet!Clark.Matthews >From: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Newsgroups: info.paranet Subject: Re: The Secret Govt.. Message-ID: <30763.25732F09@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 28 Nov 89 23:34:00 GMT Organization: Paranet Information Service, Denver, CO (303) 431-1343 Lines: 37 Well, the Beast need not be able to interact with the data bases of banks, credit bureaus, etc. It would help, but it's not necessary. All the monstrosity would need to do is to post a stream of transactions to the victim's accounts until they were wiped out. Shell companies could be used to run up the bills -- or the Beast could simply use the real account numbers of businesses to zap a person's credit lines and the real interbank numbers of banks to make their savings disappear via Fed wires, etc. Remember, the object here is to squeeze someone -- and wiping out all their resources via bogus or erroneous transactions will do that just as effectively as anything. After all, it would take MONTHS or even YEARS to track down all the questionable transactions via account numbers or interbank numbers. Just ask any bank that's been a victim of computer crime. The IRS is fully capable of summoning up everything financial about you now. The info is posted to their computers by banks, brokers, etc. It's not interactive in most cases. Indeed, most banks & brokers would prefer that the gov't NOT be able to access their complete data base & alter information there. They probably wouldn't fight interactive access, though. Matter of fact, they probably wouldn't even feel obliged to tell anyone. Why go to bat for your clients, after all? (Just ask any program-trading brokerage house or swindling S&L). I don't see how money could be an object to creating the Beast, either. After all, CIA built the Glomar Explorer & Air America and nobody noticed. The telecommunications technology is here now to support the thing. And it could pay for itself in some ways, too -- especially if the thing could actually get money out of accounts. Pleasant dreams, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Clark.Matthews Date: Wed Nov 29 13:15:52 MST 1989 Article 837 of info.paranet: Path: scicom!paranet!Clark.Matthews >From: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Newsgroups: info.paranet Subject: Re: Don Sudduth - The Non-physical Reality Of Ufos Message-ID: <30764.25732F0C@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 28 Nov 89 23:53:00 GMT Organization: Paranet Information Service, Denver, CO (303) 431-1343 Lines: 63 > You argue for the reality behind the > myth. I just wanted to suggest (thru Dr. Vallee) that, > perhaps, the reality IS the myth; i.e., we are only seeing > (hearing, feeling) what someone else wants us to see and > that what we think is reality (such as flying saucers) is > really illusion. > Do you think this may be possible?? Well put! The reality IS the myth! A very nice turn of phrase indeed, Don. I think it could be entirely possible. After all, it's no more outre than many other ideas about UFOs and their occupants and it has an equally sound historical & anecdotal basis. It's also an open invitation to ridicule, though. And that's what we don't need right now. Imagine Tom Brokaw clearing his throat at the bottom 30 seconds of his newscast & saying: "From UFO afficiondos and believers of all stripes comes this last item. Three of the best-known, nationally published UFO authorities now claim a solid link between Unidentified Flying Objects -- or Unidentified Areal Objects as they prefer to call them -- and the elves, pixies and leprechauns of lore. They say, 'The myth is the message'. We say, 'We'll see.' Thanks for watching. Good night." See? The association is fatal. But I must say that I have always felt that the UFOnauts -- or some of them -- seem to have a very good working knowledge of earthly technology and its forms. The 1897 Airship Scare is a good example. Some kind of vehicle that can "pass" credibly for a motorized baloon (and this was just at the time Count Zeppelin was beginning to get attention with his experiments -- NOT his airships, which came later). The "Aeroplane" Wave of the late 1900's and the 1930s is another example. Someone knew enough about airplanes to mimic their appearance and/or the sound that they made. One of the things cruised and circled over Times Square in 1907 (? I think). Problem was, it wasn't a machine built by the Wrights, or Glenn Curtis, or anyone else. Likewise, the Westchester Wing bears more than a passing resemblance to the Stealth bomber, though it's larger & festively lit. Coincidence? I don't pretend to know. But it's worth noting that in some contact cases, the beings aboard some of these things demonstrate remarkable ignorance. I mean, if someone's capable of creating the illusion of a textbook flying saucer, wouldn't they know the color yellow when they saw it? Yet in the Barney/Betty Hill case, the alien asked Betty Hill what "yellow" meant. Still, associate UFOs with the historical record of mythic beings like trolls, elves, leprechauns and the Celtic Shee and you create very unfortunate perceptions. As a child of the 20th Century, I just want to see one of these machines up close and get some instruction on how it works & how to make one of my very own. That's all. I don't care if I'm taking dictation from a troll, elf, sprite, pixie, Reticulan, Nordic, or my great-aunt Tilly via a Ouija board. Whoever these guys are, they've got something we could probably use... Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Clark.Matthews Subject: Re: The Secret Govt.. Date: 29 Nov 89 00:11:00 GMT Ostensibly, yes, the NSA's Crays (they have several) are just there to crack codes & screen traffic. I imagine they have machines more or less dedicated to both tasks. They'd probably use several machines to crack codes, with the different machines running in parallel. An individual Cray would perhaps not be powerful enough to crack complex algorithms, but would be very handy for high speed scans of intercepted telexes, twx's, and other data traffic for key words or numbers in many different languages. With the new RISC based computers coming out now, the Crays may have seen their day, however. By clustering these new babies it's possible to exceed Cray performance. So, if Uncle Sammy can fork up the dollars for lots of high-speed virtual storage (when when was MONEY ever a problem?), NSA will be able to scan virtually all the data they intercept. Including everything everybody ever posts to a bulletin board. Pleasant dreams, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG!T.s..Bennett Subject: Refutation... Date: 28 Nov 89 20:23:00 GMT I have addressed this message to ALL, because its obvious that when I address a message to certain people, even though I use universal third person terms like," one, they, them, most, others, etc.", the people I have addressed the message to think I have been talking about them. If I say something about scientists to a person that says he is one, and state my opinion that MOST scientists are close minded, that person takes it personally and thinks that I mean that they are close minded. Guilt by association, actuality of the fact of close mindedness, or insecurity can be the reason. This forum is called a conference, that means to confer, that means people are going to state their OPINIONS mixed in with some FACTS, MOST of it based on SPECULATIVE FILES in a DATABASE that is FULL OF INCONSISTENCY, and built like a house of cards, with each file adding to the one previous, embellishing, adding to, and outright prevarication occur. This means that other people after having read the MIX OF FACTS, OPINIONS, and SPECULATIONS, will have to make up their response to those OPINIONS, FACTS, and SPECULATIONS to the best of their ability. THERE IS NO WAY TO PROVE A NEGATIVE. So ask me when I'm going to stop beating my wife! I'll tell you I'm not married, so you assume I'm beating my girlfriend, my boyfriend (if I was homo), or my "thing" if I was lonely. As to do with the FACTS, there are plenty of inadvertent TYPOS that occur here, plenty of MISSPELLINGS, plenty of MISTAKES, but I haven't seen much in the way of outright LYING! That's because liars are smart enough to know that they will be uncovered by someone else who knows the FACTS. I have stated that scientists DONT KNOW WHAT WILL OCCUR WHEN 50 POUNDS OF PLUTONIUM ENTERS THE ATMOSPHERE OF JUPITER. THAT'S A FACT. Only a close minded scientist who hasn't had an original thought since age ten would disagree with that FACT. (I lowered myself to an impersonal attack!) My entries into this forum have been labeled: < < < < < What is the reason for this attack on me? Are awards going to be passed out? I would swoon from the honor of being compared to Galileo himself, who speculated, but BASED HIS SPECULATIONS ON FACTS. Other timid and insecure people of his day "declined" to look through his telescope, not wanting to observe the IRREFUTABLE FACTS that led Galileo to his conclusion that the Earth was NOT the egoistic religious center of anything, and therefore humans were not the center of God's Universe either. "Declining to look through his telescope" is another way of saying they were scared to death of losing their jobs, their lives, or their government research grants, didn't want to be labeled as heretics, and ostracized by their peers. In short they were mostly WIMPS. The difference between me and Galileo is that I dont care if anybody believes me or not, I dont like being called a liar, and I certainly wont kiss the pope's butt. Like Larouche would say after he gets done with his 15 years at Leavenworth, "At least I'm not a wimp!" Lazar is either supposed to leak the saucer info, or he is not a WIMP! -- T.s. Bennett - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: T.s..Bennett@f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f102.n268.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Paul.Faeder Subject: Re: The Secret Govt.. Date: 29 Nov 89 04:15:21 GMT In a message of <26 Nov 89 21:03:00 >, Clark Matthews (1:104/422) writes: >I know some ParaNeters work in the info technology field ... do any of us >have any knowledge of such a super-system? At this stage it would >probably have to be hydra-like, with network nodes in several different >places on each continent. It would have to be tied together over leased >lines (T1s or CEPT lines) and almost certainly satellite up/downlinks. I'm not in the info technology field. But I was quite surprised that about 2 or 3 days after my father had died two years ago, all of his bank accounts were frozen and his credit card accounts were terminated or frozen also. All of this seems to be timed with the issuance of his death certificate. How so many places were knowlegable of his death and able to freeze or cancel accounts leads me to think that some sort of system is already in place. While I don't thinks it's The Beast a system is in place. Most likely keyed into the social security number. -- Paul Faeder - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Paul.Faeder@p0.f102.n268.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Ann.Yeoman Subject: Re: Implant Recovered Date: 28 Nov 89 17:48:48 GMT I really would have liked to see that edition of Hard Copy. However, I couldn't find it on any of the local stations. I don't have a large selection. But we do get ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox. I was all set up with a blank tape in the VCR, but all I could find was football! Can you give a synopsis of the program? I'd be interested to hear about the content of the program. Thanks! Regards, Ann -- Ann Yeoman - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Ann.Yeoman@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: taos!uucp Subject: Anthropogous aliens Date: 28 Nov 89 22:47:06 GMT I just read in the latest Skeptical Inquirer that John Lear believes that the aliens in the Nevada area are obligately anthropophagous and that this might explain some of the missing children. The government has essentially granted them a hunting license for this purpose. Is this a correct summary of his views and are there any more details available? Is this a hoax or paranoid joke? The idea that extraterrestrials might require some chemical substance in human bodies and need to consume them to get it is very unlikely technologically, economically and biologically. Even terrestrial chemists can synthesize any defined natural product, though it may be stillcheaper to let nature do the synthesis. Certainly technically advanced ET's that can cross interstellar space should be able do the same. Economically, it makes little sense to prey on humans individually when such a hypothetical substance could be obtained from human tissue cultures, waste tissue (placentas, etc.), lower animals (mice, plants, etc.) or microorganisms (wild types or genetically engineered strains). There is nothing chemically unique about humans except their DNA and the proteins it encodes and these genes can be cloned or the proteins extracted from waste tissue. All of these alternatives would be cheaper than travelling here to hunt humans. Our pharmaceutical industry would be delighted to have a customer who would pay in new technology and not have the product subject to the FDA, etc. I'll be delighted to start a mouse farm or a biotech company to supply their needs. Biologically, the idea makes even less sense. Humans use other earth organisms for food because we evolved here and all terrestrial life contains the same basic sugars, amino acids, fats, and vitamins. Certain organisms have evolved the ability to make repellent, powerfully toxic or even attractive secondary metabolites precisely because earth life has been coevolving and competing for 3 or 4 billion years. ET lifeforms would probably be CONH based, but the details of their metabolism would probably be very different. ET's might well find us indigestible or poisonous, but I don't see how they could have a nutritional need for human flesh if they evolved elsewhere. What did they eat before they arrived on the earth? If this is a new disease (SPACE AIDS?), it seems a remarkable coincidence that only human flesh will cure it. I suspect that the predominance to humanoids in popular SF and UFOlogy represents a crypto-creationism. "They" have to look like us because we were made in God's image and he is universal, etc. --John -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: taos!uucp Subject: LONG ISLAND UFO NETWORK Date: 29 Nov 89 16:47:24 GMT Hi there. My name is Ed Sanborn and I'm the MUFON State Director for Mass. I've been watching the traffic on Paranet for the last couple of weeks and I'm quite pleased with what I read. It's great to have the quick turnaround on information exchange while reaching lots of individuals at one time. I received the following in the mail from a member of the LIUFON on Friday Nov. 24, 1989: LONG ISLAND U.F.O. NETWORK P.O. BOX 232 Center Moriches, New York 11934 HOTLINE (516) 286-3212 A NON-PROFIT RESEARCH ORGANIZATION ---------------------------------------- NEWS BULLETIN.... NEWS BULLETIN.... NEWS BULLETIN.... NEWS BULLETIN.... PRESS RELEASE: FOR IMMEDIATE COPY The Long Island UFO Network, Inc., a non-profit research organization based on Long Island, announces to the media of the Metropolitan area and the Nation that we have evidence that on September 28, 1989 the United States Armed Forces attempted to recover a disabled, or landed UFO. The incident occured on the Dune Area of Smith's Point Beach near entrance to the Moriches Bay. Military and Suffolk County Police Helicopters were involved in an apparent attempt to monitor the craft on the Beach. A second object estimated to be 574 feet to a thousand feet long was observed hovering over the Bay. It was composed of six tremendously large lights. The helicopters (six involved) were composed of four military helicopters and two Suffolk County Police Helicopters. These helicopters surrounded the large object (commonly referred to as a mother ship) in a circular rotation passing around this object in a counter clockwise flight, the helicopters would then fly over the second downed object in the dunes. As this manuever was completed, the area would be illuminated by the helicopters searchlights in an attempt to illuminate what was on the ground. Long Island UFO Network, Inc. has interviewed the eyewitnesses to this event. The family lives in Center Noriches Long Island. The husband, wife, and their adult son observed the large object from their backyard in response to military helicopter overflights of their home. The husband and son drove to the Union Ave. dock and for two and a half hours observed the operation. The witnesses described the operation to LIUFON investigators' under the provision their identities and address be held in the strictest confidential- ity. For their protection they were interviewed on tape under fictitious identities and addresses. The husband's taped interview is available to the media for examination with permission of the witness. The case is under further investigation by LIUFON investigators. As more information develops it will be released to the media. The case will be discussed at our foth coming conference on October 29th in Middle Island,NY at the Artist Lake Condominium Center. There exists 48 photographs of this occurence taken by the eyewitnesses. They have been impounded by LIUFON for scientific evaluation. As soon as tests are finished they will be presented to the public on the Joel Martin Cable TV Show on cablevision at a date to be announced. We call upon the FAA, Suffolk County Police and the United States Government to comment on this. Did they have UFO's over Moriches Bay on Sept. 28, 1989 between 8:45 P.M. to 11:30 P.M. and were they monitoring it? LIUFON demands to know, the public demands to know and the World demands to know. For further information contact the Long Island UFO Network, Inc. at the Hotline No. 516-286-3212. --------------------- That's it for now. Speaking to Mr. Ford, the curator of LIUFON he says the're working on FOIA requests and such. I'll post more info as I receive it, Ed P.S. My Home # is (508) 453-5609 Work # is (508) 937-1600 x.247 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cyrill Subject: Re: The Secret Govt.. Date: 29 Nov 89 20:42:31 GMT In article <30766.25732F0F@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) writes: +Ostensibly, yes, the NSA's Crays (they have several) are just there to crack +codes & screen traffic. I imagine they have machines more or less dedicated +to both tasks. They'd probably use several machines to crack codes, with +the different machines running in parallel. An individual Cray would +perhaps not be powerful enough to crack complex algorithms, but would be +very handy for high speed scans of intercepted telexes, twx's, and other +data traffic for key words or numbers in many different languages. This has been done for years by NSA and others. Books have even been written about one place in Maryland that does just this. The computer systems are run in tandem of two or more and are very fast (Cray's) and will still smoke RISC computers to this date. -Cyro -- <---------------------------++++++++++++++++++-----------------------------> Cyro Lord Alpha Comm. Dev. Corp. - DOMAIN cyrill@scicom.alphacdc.com UUCP {ncar,nbires,boulder,isis}!scicom!cyrill Corn can't expect Justice from a court of chickens. (African Proverb) -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: taos!uucp Subject: Lazar and his Amazing Saucers Date: 29 Nov 89 20:47:15 GMT Hello, paranet friends, I have been reading the newsletter from paranet for some time now. This is my first posting. +I just had an interesting thought...if you had been sitting on the secret +of S-4 and dreamland for a long while, and had instructions to release the +information to the public only if it would not cause a crisis, what better +time to stage-leak the real story, as most of Eastern Europe and the Soviet +Union call off the cold war? Perhaps what Reagan was telling Gorbachev +in their summit conferences is that we'll all hang separately if we don't +hang together. + +More paranoia from, + +Michael Sloan MacLeod (amdahl!drivax!macleod) Regarding Lazar, I just wonder about the fact that we are on the eve of a summit of great significance to the entire world. As much as we would all like to believe this intriguing tale (since so many questions would be answered), I have to think that our government has a powerful motivation at the moment for promoting this kind of idea. Given the credulity of Soviets on this subject, how likely is it that the Soviet intelligence community is going crazy right now trying to verify this story before the summit? Is this all designed to throw Gorbachev off balance? If our government tried to announce such a thing (supposing it is false) they would be innundated with requests for demonstrations and explanations, which would ruin the ruse. But the region where these events are alleged to have occurred would be under constant scrutiny by Soviet agents, given the history of the area. The agents assigned to the area probably observed the news programs with great interest. Then there is the involvement of Cooper. Readers will have to judge for themselves the significance of this. Here is my scenario: Lazar works for some intelligence outfit. His background was wiped out (ineffectively) in the hopes that the attempt to erase his history would give credibility to his story. Others that come forward are part of the same effort. Some are actual believers who have been convinced by the thoroughness of the deception. The information is released in controlled packets, perhaps some intelligence leaks were provided directly to Soviet agents to prepare them to be receptive when the television program came on. It all is building up so that the climax of the scam occurs just before the summit. The result is that Gorbachev is off balance and Bush has the advantage. I think this is much more likely than the possibility that what Lazar says is true, for these reasons: 1) If this project were so top secret as Lazar says, he would never have appeared on that program. Lazar said they knew he was going to leak in advance. If that were true he would have been dead. They would not wait until now to take sniper shots at him, and if they did, they wouldn't miss. 2) Bill Cooper has discredited himself, and he appears to be involved. 3) After reading on the subject, I am inclined to believe that the spiritual/supernatural/extradimensional aspect is the most significant. I could go into this, but let me just say that I too have been reading Dimensions, and the ideas presented there make more sense than anything else I have seen on the subject. This story does not fit the scenario. Instead it fits into a neat materialistic mold which would allow the military to control the phenomena by purely physical means. This does not mean it is necessarily bogus, it just makes me suspicious. It is too neat; too easy and pat. 4) The gov't has a history of "leaking" bogus UFO stories. 5) They are motivated to try to maintain the upper hand by the significance of this summit, in light of political developments. This whole thing may have been generated directly in response to developments in Eastern Europe. 6) The whole thing may be relatively unimportant to our intelligence community - just another little game to try to keep the other guys confused, and good practice at generating disinformation. Sorry, it's just too bizarre to believe without tons of corroboration from many independent sources. Cheers, --Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------- {uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************