Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 92 Friday, December 1st 1989 Today's Topics: Lazar and his Amazing Saucers Re: The Secret Govt.. CNN video tape of Eastern European UFO (none) Re: Antimatter Drives and Area 51 Re: Area 51: The Nevada Test Site's Supersecret Ufo Base? The State of Events Re: Pu/wolf 424 Re: Cooper, Cooper, Cooper Re: A Current Affair 11/17/89 Re: The Secret Govt. Blast Reality More comments Crash (Not of the UFO kind) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: isis!scicom!taos!uucp Subject: Lazar and his Amazing Saucers Date: 29 Nov 89 20:47:15 GMT Hello, paranet friends, I have been reading the newsletter from paranet for some time now. This is my first posting. +I just had an interesting thought...if you had been sitting on the secret +of S-4 and dreamland for a long while, and had instructions to release the +information to the public only if it would not cause a crisis, what better +time to stage-leak the real story, as most of Eastern Europe and the Soviet +Union call off the cold war? Perhaps what Reagan was telling Gorbachev +in their summit conferences is that we'll all hang separately if we don't +hang together. + +More paranoia from, + +Michael Sloan MacLeod (amdahl!drivax!macleod) Regarding Lazar, I just wonder about the fact that we are on the eve of a summit of great significance to the entire world. As much as we would all like to believe this intriguing tale (since so many questions would be answered), I have to think that our government has a powerful motivation at the moment for promoting this kind of idea. Given the credulity of Soviets on this subject, how likely is it that the Soviet intelligence community is going crazy right now trying to verify this story before the summit? Is this all designed to throw Gorbachev off balance? If our government tried to announce such a thing (supposing it is false) they would be innundated with requests for demonstrations and explanations, which would ruin the ruse. But the region where these events are alleged to have occurred would be under constant scrutiny by Soviet agents, given the history of the area. The agents assigned to the area probably observed the news programs with great interest. Then there is the involvement of Cooper. Readers will have to judge for themselves the significance of this. Here is my scenario: Lazar works for some intelligence outfit. His background was wiped out (ineffectively) in the hopes that the attempt to erase his history would give credibility to his story. Others that come forward are part of the same effort. Some are actual believers who have been convinced by the thoroughness of the deception. The information is released in controlled packets, perhaps some intelligence leaks were provided directly to Soviet agents to prepare them to be receptive when the television program came on. It all is building up so that the climax of the scam occurs just before the summit. The result is that Gorbachev is off balance and Bush has the advantage. I think this is much more likely than the possibility that what Lazar says is true, for these reasons: 1) If this project were so top secret as Lazar says, he would never have appeared on that program. Lazar said they knew he was going to leak in advance. If that were true he would have been dead. They would not wait until now to take sniper shots at him, and if they did, they wouldn't miss. 2) Bill Cooper has discredited himself, and he appears to be involved. 3) After reading on the subject, I am inclined to believe that the spiritual/supernatural/extradimensional aspect is the most significant. I could go into this, but let me just say that I too have been reading Dimensions, and the ideas presented there make more sense than anything else I have seen on the subject. This story does not fit the scenario. Instead it fits into a neat materialistic mold which would allow the military to control the phenomena by purely physical means. This does not mean it is necessarily bogus, it just makes me suspicious. It is too neat; too easy and pat. 4) The gov't has a history of "leaking" bogus UFO stories. 5) They are motivated to try to maintain the upper hand by the significance of this summit, in light of political developments. This whole thing may have been generated directly in response to developments in Eastern Europe. 6) The whole thing may be relatively unimportant to our intelligence community - just another little game to try to keep the other guys confused, and good practice at generating disinformation. Sorry, it's just too bizarre to believe without tons of corroboration from many independent sources. Cheers, --Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------- {uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f102.n268.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Paul.Faeder Subject: Re: The Secret Govt.. Date: 30 Nov 89 03:59:45 GMT In a message of <28 Nov 89 09:12 >, Jim Speiser (1:114/37) writes: >Underneath Ft. Meade, the NSA headquarters, is the world's fastest and >most expensive computer, the Cray II (some say it is now a Cray III). >Simple question: WHY? What the hell is it >supposed to do? Just crack codes? Well let's face it Jim, the IRS has computer files on us, so does the census bureau, social security, FBI, etc. etc. etc. Now it won't take someone too long to figure out how to tie all these independent systems together into one huge database. Of course we have no proof of this but to think that such as system *doesn't* exist is foolhardy. Remember, Ollie North thought he had erased all of his computer files but he forgot that there was a remote system with a backup of those files. As we become more reliant on computers we are becomming a more Orwelian (1984) society. -- Paul Faeder - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Paul.Faeder@p0.f102.n268.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: taos!uucp Subject: CNN video tape of Eastern European UFO Date: 29 Nov 89 22:48:18 GMT Does anyone know more about the CNN UFO video aired last night? Here's what I heard and saw (and didn't tape): At about 9:25 PM PST last night (11-28-88) on CNN during the segment with the square-jawed, male news commentator (Emory???), we heard him announce that a home video had been made of a recent (within the week?) UFO that has been "buzzing" (his word) some (named) Eastern European town. This had been going on for a few consecutive days. The video was shown during the reading of the news. We saw a greyish, circular blob moving somewhat erratically within a dark frame. (So, what's new, right?) The blob occupied about 5% of the frame, I would say. I don't recall any identifiable objects in the video frame. It looked as if the lens was zoomed toward the UFO during the course of the video. The blob appeared to scintillate and possibly had some rotational movement. There were no well-defined "lights" and no bright colors that I remember. The entire news segment lasted perhaps a minute with 30 seconds of videotape. Anyone catch the European country and town? Keith -Keith Rowell, Tektronix, Wilsonville, OR keithr@orca.WV.TEK.COM -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: taos!uucp Subject: (none) Date: 30 Nov 89 07:47:08 GMT Dear Friends, I saw this article in the sci.space USENET newsgroup. I think it's some straightfaced bs put up to parody the Area 51 article, but I could be wrong. The article had a strange-looking path line, and it seemed to have been gateed from the Internet. Article 15143 of sci.space: Path: drivax!amdahl!apple!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!wuarchive!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ucsd!ucbvax!FNAL.BITNET!HIGGINS >From: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET (W.T. Higgins) Newsgroups: sci.space Subject: Re: Antimatter Drives and Area 51 Message-ID: Date: 28 Nov 89 15:47:00 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The Internet Lines: 61 Michael Sloan MacLeod posted a discussion about: +Robert Lazar, formerly employed by the government at the mysterious +Area 51, says that the US government has 500 pounds of element 115, +which somehow produces antimatter when irradiated. Lazar is pulling the wool over somebody's eyes. There were less than 300 pounds of element 115, and probably less now. Samples were tested in various university and government labs, including mine. Yes, it does give off antimatter when bombarded with the proper radiation. If you hit it with negative muons, 115 (I'm talking about 287, the most abundant isotope, here. Inconvenient not having a name for the element, but there never was general agreement on it.) transitions to an excited state that decays into a positron, a nucleus of 114, and an antideuteron (bound state of an antiproton and an antineutron). The 114 is unstable, and in a few milliseconds it gives off another antideuteron and a pair of positrons. And so forth, down the chart of the nuclides. Every once in a while a decay in this chain will throw off a neutron, just to keep things balanced. This had everybody excited for a while. You might remember the big *Popular Mechanics* article about it. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a bust. We showered muons on our 115 sample rods for weeks on end. The decay chain ends, after a rather short time, at 106Pd. And Pd has a tremendous affinity for hydrogen, and anti-hydrogen. We had made a bunch of antimatter, but we couldn't get it out. The deuterons were stuck within the Pd lattice. All we could collect were a few deuterons coming off atoms on the surface, and positrons, which we can get anywhere. And instead of an exotic heavy element, we were left with an inert lump of a metal anybody can buy on the commodities market. Remember the joke about the alchemist who could turn gold into lead? Having established that it wasn't a miracle energy source, most labs pretty much lost interest. At mine, we took the experiment apart and went on to more interesting work. The sample rods were lying around the lab for a while, though, come to think of it, I haven't seen them in a couple of years. I suppose somebody scrounged them for another experiment. +This fuel is used to drive waveguide-type gravity amplifiers which +are the FTL drive components of nine alien spacecraft Eight. One crashed during tests in August 1981. Three of the remaining eight have now been dismantled. +stored in hangars +out at Area 51 (the supersecret testing grounds also known as "Dreamland" +in the middle of the Nellis AFB bombing range about 65 miles northeast of +Las Vegas). Not *too* supersecret. See the book *Dreamland: A New Age of Flight Testing*, by Richard Adams Locke, Aero Books, 1985. A lot of nice photos of the place. +From his brief description of how the drives operate, they +seem to create local black-hole strength gravity gradients which slow down +time and cause a space-fold quickly traversible by the spacecraft. Get real. The correct spelling is "traversable." Bill Higgins +------------------------------------------------+ | These opinions are not shared by my employer, | | or perhaps by anybody else. | +------------------------------------------------+ Michael Sloan MacLeod -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: taos!uucp Subject: Re: Area 51: The Nevada Test Site's Supersecret Ufo Base? Date: 30 Nov 89 08:02:03 GMT To further check on Mr. Lazar's background, what about asking him to produce a college/high school yearbook? Also, what about pay stubs, tax records etc.? I know these items have already been asked for and it would be great if he could deliver. Ed Sanborn -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f22.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Ecker Subject: The State of Events Date: 30 Nov 89 19:27:00 GMT > sighted in area. I know of others, has anyone else picked > up on this. I believe that there is apossibility that they > may even know about paranet. Would anyone care to make a > special request and see what happens? Ray: Yaa, I have a special request. How about this for size? World Peace, or an end to world hunger, or a re-affirmation of the Constitution, or an end to the double talk, or how about just one damn good photograph? Pass that along and lets see, eh? -- Don Ecker - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Ecker@f22.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio Subject: Re: Pu/wolf 424 Date: 30 Nov 89 21:00:00 GMT Bryon Since the galactic distances were calculated, the 3-d image could be generated. The only problem is that NOT ALL galaxies were included, only a 'slice' of the whole sky. Basically you are seeing a cross sectional cut through the thickness of galaxies. This helps to see the underlying structure better than seeing the whole clump at once... Marc -- Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio Subject: Re: Cooper, Cooper, Cooper Date: 30 Nov 89 21:03:00 GMT I agree. Cooper is NOT fronted by anyone but himself. No govt agency could use such a person as he, as he is volatile. That is the first no-no! -- Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Marc.Dantonio Subject: Re: A Current Affair 11/17/89 Date: 30 Nov 89 21:06:00 GMT I see from your last long message that you are a Strieber reader! -- Marc Dantonio - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Marc.Dantonio@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: taos!uucp Subject: Re: The Secret Govt. Date: 30 Nov 89 20:32:27 GMT +, is the world's fastest and most +expensive computer, the Cray II (some say it is now a Cray III). It is generally accepted that the world's fastest production supercomputer is the 8 processor CRAY Y-MP system. The CRAY-3 is expected to be produced soon by Cray Computer Corporation. -keith -- Keith Fredericks, Cray Research Inc., 1440 Northland Dr. Mendota Hgts., MN 55120 keith@cray.com (612)681-3258 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: taos!uucp Subject: Blast Date: 30 Nov 89 20:32:57 GMT Some not so random comments: The "Beast" reminds me very much of the computer in the secret courts in A.E. Van Vogt's famous novel, "The Weapon Shops of Isher." In addition to supplying defensive weapons to any citizen who needed protection from the government or powerful private forces, the Weapon Shops also had a court system with a computer network which automatically deducted the assessed fines and made restitution to the aggrieved parties. Pretty prescient for the '40's or 50's, I'd say. In response to some recent and unnecessary comments, modern historians tend to think that the story of Cardinal Bellarmine's refusal to look through Gallileo's telescope at the moons of Jupiter is apocryphal. Both the Pope and the Cardinal had earlier been supporters of G, but were offended by his personal attacks and were also caught up in a political struggle which G's attacks exacerbated. That doesn't excuse them, of course, nor validate the R.C.Church's pretense to be dispensing the TRUTH and only the TRUTH. Futhermore, to the charge of "having a closed mind," let me say that my mind is not closed to the possibility that naturalistic explanations can be found for most, if not all, allegedly paranormal events. I haven't lost faith in rationality and I don't intend to feel apologetic about it. Neither should the rest of us. Originality is a tricky subject philosophically. Platonists would deny its possibility and structuralists would place severe limits on its scope. Multiple near-simultaneous discovery is common in science and art, suggesting that much credit for originality is often credit for speedy publication and good PR. I recommend the articles by Isaac Azimov on "The Relativity of Error," and Milton Rothman on "Myths about Science" in the Fall '89 Skeptical Inquirer. Enough is known about the physics and chemistry of Plutonium, the engineering constraints of nuclear warhead design, and the conditions on Jupiter for me to state with about the same confidence that I can predict the rising of the sun tomorrow that nothing of consequence would happen if a thermal generator containing 50 lbs of non-weapons grade Pu entered the Jovian atmosphere. It would simply vaporize, as have the nuclear generators that have entered our atmosphere from satellites. Granted I can't tell you the precise trajectory or fate of every particle; there are real limits to knowledge, but we can predict the broad outlines with some confidence. There is no chance of a thermonuclear explosion. The pressures and temperatures generated by fission bombs are simply not high enough to ignite Hydrogen. Fusion bombs and prototype reactors use Deuterium and Tritium (and Lithium) because they are far easier to fuse. These are present only in miniscule amounts in the Jovian atmosphere. Their reaction rate exceeds that of H + H by about 18 orders of magnitude if memory serves me. For those of you still reading, it is not always "impossible to prove a negative." Proof of non-existence is common in mathematics and logic. As a grad student I once wasted 45 minutes of CPU time on a large mainframe trying to find a certain type of musical scale structure by an exhaustive search. Several months later I found a paper proving that such structures did not exist for the values of the parameters I was interested in. QED. --John (Chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu) -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: taos!uucp Subject: Reality Date: 30 Nov 89 22:36:25 GMT I am intensely interested in the idea that paranormal experience is often linked with the UFO experience. Many of the accounts that I have heard of UFO experiences have psychic elements to them. In this current vein, I am still wondering why my posting about the Persinger helmet that simulates the UFO abduction experience did not generate any response. Lazar has given us a picture of a hard reality where we can touch the spacecraft, test-fly the sport model, and communicate in a conventional manner with the aliens. I have no idea whether this is based in fact or what. But, I believe that at the point of contact between our race and another more advanced one, we will be very hard pressed indeed to fit all of the new knowledge and understanding into our tiny little primitive world views. It is likely that the (what we call) paranormal experiences are only well-defined and controllable experiences of races advanced beyond our own. (And who knows, maybe even some humans have developed these talents). In this vein, I am still wondering why no one responded to my assertion about the similarity between the experience that Carlos Casteneda reported in his seven books and UFO experiences. Don Juan and Carlos and friends have built-up a knowledge of how-the-world works that allows them to participate in a reality that is quite different from the one that we normally associate with concensus reality. After Carlos integrated this new reality into his own world view, his definition of hard reality changed. It expanded to include new stuff. I think the blowing-away of our current consensus world view is likely due to an encounter with another race and/or by the normal course of science and technology. BTW-- could someone please list the paranet BBS phone number(s) for the benefit of those of us on the internet? -keith -- Keith Fredericks, Cray Research Inc., 1440 Northland Dr. Mendota Hgts., MN 55120 keith@cray.com (612)681-3258 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: taos!uucp Subject: More comments Date: 30 Nov 89 22:36:55 GMT More comments: I just got a letter from a Snail Mail correspondent in San Diego who says that KVEG and Danny Goodman come in loud and clear there. I would think that much of the rest of Central and Southern California would be in the potential listening area as well. He reminded me that Element 115, tentatively to be called Ununquintium according to IUPAC naming rules (Ufonium sounds better to my ears), is the heavy homolog of Bismuth, which while the last element to have at least one stable isotope, has no other unusual properties. The letter also reminded me that I think that I forgot to mention in my earlier discussions of 115 that one of the chief reasons I doubt that 115 is being used to produce antimatter to generate an antigravity field is that antimatter was predicted theoretically and confirmed experimentally (by William Fairbank at Stanford with positrons) to react the same as normal matter to gravity. Antimatter is not repelled by normal gravity nor does it generate an antigravity field. Forward's Antigravity device would work by cancelling normal gravity with a hypothetical "protational" or gravitational analog of the magnetic field. This discussion also reminds me of a suggestion (by Larry Niven, I think) for a Plutonium Standard to replace gold and silver. Pu is scarce, difficult to synthesize, intrinsically valuable for its energy content, difficult to hoard because of its toxicity and radioactivity, and dangerous to accumulate due to its low critical mass. Therefore people would have to keep it circulating before it decayed and by the well-known multiplier effect, boost the economy and keep it healthy. --John Chalmers -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin Subject: Crash (Not of the UFO kind) Date: 1 Dec 89 10:30:00 GMT To all: ParaNet Alpha had a hard drive crash on November 30, at 4:30 P.M. MST. Although we are up and running, anyone who posted on Alpha between 10:00 P.M. MST on November 29 and the time of the crash may not have been transmitted through the net, with the exception of UUCP traffic since it goes immediately upon posting, may consider reposting their traffic to be sure that all affiliates get it. Sorry for the inconvenience this has caused. BTW, the MIBS were bound and gagged for what they did here!! Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************