Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 102 Friday, December 15th 1989 Today's Topics: Lazar/115 Re: Project Blue Book - Aka A Govt Coverup Re: The State Of Events Some comments on Info-ParaNet Re: Klass *has* visited UFO sites! CUFORN NEWSLETTER Re: The Closest Encounter Lazar/Area51 Information ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.) Subject: Lazar/115 Date: 14 Dec 89 16:41:19 GMT Is there any independent confirmation that a nuclear explosion occurred in the atmosphere in 1986 as Lazar claims? The signature of such a blast if due to 115 would be completly different from a fission or fusion explosion. there would be no fission products from an antimatter explosion an dprobably much less induced radioactivity. Is athere any data on this supposed event in Nevada. Try the anti-nuke or environmetal groups. --John -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f630.n283.z1.FIDONET.ORG!James.Nannemann Subject: Re: Project Blue Book - Aka A Govt Coverup Date: 13 Dec 89 15:57:01 GMT Thanks Marc, Although this is related, this is sort of a little off the subject too, what I'm talking about is the possible relationship between: 1) the UFOs, 2) the secret government, 3) the trilateral, 4) the computer nicknamed "the Beast" over in Brussles, 5) the sudden flip flop of the socialist world in how they are handling their affairs, suddenly becoming so sweet and co-operative, all of a sudden, 6) the undercover operations now going on in Southeast Asia, where the US is STILL working to achieve a status of MAJOR influence, in Vietnam (with the current regime), in Cambodia (where they are trying to re-install Prince Sihanouk back into power without the Khmer Rouge, and in Laos. This may all seem to be disconnected to many people, but I think that they are all inter-related, and it seems that all of a sudden things are developing in a way that just seems too good to be true. And When something APPEARS too good to be true, it often is..... ESPECIALLY when politicians of all different stripes SUDDENLY start co-operating TOO willingly. Something smells fishy to me. VERY fishy. When is the OTHER boot going to fall? -- James Nannemann - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: James.Nannemann@f630.n283.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bryon.Smith Subject: Re: The State Of Events Date: 13 Dec 89 17:02:00 GMT In a message to Bryon Smith <12-10-89 20:28> Mac Druaidh wrote: MD> BS} 10-4 on that. It's Witch's Sabath starting sundown the MD> BS} 20th and lasting until sunrise on the 21st. MD> MD> What's the connection between Witchcraft and Satanism? MD> From where I hail from, they're two entirely different MD> systems. A lot of peace-loving, non-baby-killing Wiccans I MD> know would take severe offense at such a connection. I don't think there is any "connection" between them, other than perhaps having some of the meetings on the same days. I understood they didn't like each other, not even a little bit, and there are major differences between witches and satanists, even in this area. But I am here to tell you the Satanists do some really bizzar disgusting things in this area and they are very active. I don't even know what a "Wiccan" is so I certanly don't intend to intentionally offend any of them. ...Bryon -- Bryon Smith - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bryon.Smith@p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: boulder!utah-cs!thomson Subject: Some comments on Info-ParaNet Date: 14 Dec 89 20:34:19 GMT I started reading this because I happened across a reference to it in the Usenet newsgroup sci.space; I had been interested in UFO phenomenon as a curiosity until Robert Hastings came to the University of Utah to talk about UFO phenomenon from the viewpoint of government collusion and cover-up. Taking this point of view, i.e. even if you think "aliens" don't exist the CIA/NSA/FBI does, is much more credible than talking about the existence of alien craft, etc. (Of course the latter is much more interesting in a sensational way, but tends to turn away most skeptics). I have some comments in general on Info-ParaNet. Is this newsletter dedicated specifically to UFO phenomenon, or are all "paranormal" experiences under consideration. From the amount of talk on witchcraft, satanism, etc., I'm led to believe the latter. If this is the case, I think its important to adopt a seriously skeptical attitude towards any "paranormal" phenomenon (in fact, I don't consider UFOlogy anything to do with the "paranormal" [i.e. mysticism]; I think it belongs with the unexplained more than the supernatural). If the study of UFOs is going to be accepted seriously by anyone of a skeptical bent, then the UFO community must do something to distance itself from the fraud- ulently bogus events that are passed off as being "paranormal". The UFO community, I believe, should concentrate its efforts on extracting information out of government bureaus via FOI requests based on known authenticated documents or USG employee testimony. Given that the USG is bound by law to release such documents (with certain caveats), I believe this is the best way to obtain evidence to support the existence claim. With the accounts of people like Lazar, one should be able to come up with a specific enough request to get more information. Even if you can't convince people (i.e. the public) that UFOs exist or alien technology remnants are in Area 51, etc, you can prove through government documents that AT LEAST they aren't telling us the whole story (or even a substantial part). I think this is the best way to proceed. Has anyone out there done some kind of grass-roots organizational plan for obtaining info via FOI requests? I know the fund for UFO research has managed to obtain documents after threatening to go to court. On the other hand, isn't there the possibility that agencies may release information to a relatively unknown individual more readily than to a known UFO research organization? (as an aside, are most of the readers of this list on FidoNet?) In issue 101, Mark Jose writes: -+ My initial observation concerning UFO sitings seems to point to the -+ majority of these sitings occurring in the USA. My guess is that the USA is simply a country where this kind of information is readily available. Remember that the US is the only country that has a law requiring the government to release information to the public (FOI). -+ Why doesn't the USSR experience the same amount of sitings. [sic] An important thing to remember is that reported sightings are not necessarily the same as actual sightings. While Glasnost may be providing some political freedoms in terms of free speech, I don't think they have progressed to the point of letting people claim the existence of UFOs loudly in public. -+ Lastly, the idea/inference was made by Lazar that monies destined for SDI -+ were in fact being used to fund this "secret base" in the desert. [...] -+ [...] I fail to see how enough money could be diverted away from -+ public scrutiny (taken off the books so to speak) and placed into the "care" -+ of the "Uniforms". Its called the "Black Budget". It is reserved for military items that are so "classified" that even most of the Congress does not know what the money is spent on. (By contrast, the stealth bomber was known in Congress and the developmental funding was approved). The black budget grew tremendously under Reagan (to a trillion dollars? perhaps it was A billion, but the sum is enourmous) and hasn't been cut under Bush as far as I know. I'd like to see an analysis of black budget contents and a comparison of estimated costs for a program similar to what Lazar asserts is happening at Area 51. ------ Mentioned by Hastings in his talk were stories of "alien treaties" and technology pacts between the USA and the aliens. According to Hastings, these reports have been traced down to "disinformation agents" -- people that have been responsible for dissemminating UFO disinformation in the past, possibly with some government connection (I can't remember the details). Has this been discussed on this list? It sounds similar to some of the things being talked about by Lazar, but different enough that I think I'm confusing two different events. -- Rich Rich Thomson thomson@cs.utah.edu {bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!thomson "Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly." Thomas Paine, _The Crisis_, Dec. 23rd, 1776 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: Klass *has* visited UFO sites! Date: 14 Dec 89 22:40:00 GMT In some way the debunkers have it easier true, but they are also swimming upstream against all those who simply "want to believe" and who refuse to consider the evidence that doesn't support the ETH. The pro-ufo camp has merely to whisper "gvt coverup" and many simply accept that view as a proven fact while the debunkers have to provide minute details to try and rebutt such allegations. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f22.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Ecker Subject: CUFORN NEWSLETTER Date: 15 Dec 89 06:41:00 GMT Usually I will not jump into the echo unless I have something to report, or someone addresses a message to me. I also as a rule refuse to jump into the various "pissing contests" that infest the National UFO Echo. To me, this shows a rampant immaturity on the part of the participants, on top of the fact that nothing is every accomplished except to show the reading public whom the jackasses are. To paraphrase a famous quote taken from some historical figure that presently escapes me, he said that it is much better to keep your mouth shut and people will only be able to guess how stupid you are, than to open it and prove to them how stupid you are. This sadly is a lesson that has escaped many a man and women, and I am sure that you all know someone that has proven the above homily. I recently wrote a message in reference to an editorial that the editor of the MUFON Journel wrote in reference to my appearence on a CNN news show, where I attributed a quote to a famous historical figure in connection to the UFO question. As is now much more widely known, the above mentioned editor did not do his homework and showed the international UFO Community that he failed to check his facts. This diatribe is leading somewhere so please hang in for a moment. If I write something for national print, or if I am on the tv or radio, you may make damn sure that if I say something, then I know it to be fact. Not conjecture, nor a guess, but fact. Like in the recent issue of UFO Magazine Volume 4 Number 3 with my story in reference to mutilations involving human beings. As anyone knows that read my first report < hummut.txt > I documented the research that I had conducted to that point, and other than the news story I have not put anything else in print. The reason? Because I have not been able to document enough to put it to the research community. However, in the news story I referenced some information from a New York researcher, Mr. William Knell, a well known UFO researcher that has been in the field for over 20 years. During Knells research he has documented a great number of missing kids in his area, and the information has come through various police contacts that Knell has. Now you may ask just what am I getting at? OK, fair question. Here we go. I just finished reading the latest issue of the CUFORN BULLETIN published by the Canadian UFO Research Network. This is an organization Co-Directed by amoung others, Larry Fenwick, and Harry Tokarz. This amateurishly and overpriced newsletter is written for the most part by Tom Mickus, a former ParaNet Sysop that quit the ParaNet Group after some infighting, and he has started his own UFO computer service, UFONet. For quite some time Tom has harbored a ill-concealed grudge with ParaNet, and I am sure he will deny it. However, to make sure he sees this message, I am going to send it to the ET echo, as I know he has a feed from it. I want Tom to see this, because it is time that someone confronts him and the way he conducts business. Tom is one of the battling particpants on the national UFO echo, and as I once told him, this activity does nothing but damage the field. You see, in the CUFORN NEWSLETTER Mickus defended the recent admissions by Wm Moore, which of course he can do. But wait, there is more. I quote: "HE ( MOORE ) IS A REMARKABLE INDIVIDUAL, AND ONE WHOM WE SHOULDN'T IGNORE. HE HAS MADE MORE PROGRESS IN THIS FIELD THAN MOST OF HIS DETRACTORS COMBINED. SURE, HIS CARDS AREN'T ALL ON THE TABLE JUST YET, BUT HE IS GETTING CLOSER TO THE TRUTH ALL THE TIME. TOWARDS THIS END, BILL MOORE DESERVES OUR SUPPORT, BUT THIS , OF COURSE IS MY OWN HUMBLE OPINION, AND ONE WHICH I REALIZE IS NOT WIDELY APPLAUDED, * * * " Yep, Tom is right, not too many applauded Moores speech when the implications of what he admitted to were realized. Illegal breakins on Benewitz, Moore acting as an agent of Military Intelligence, an agent that was taking Benewitz's friendship, while he reported back to MI on how their efforts were as far as Benewitz's deterioration went. But then, I would think that this type of activity would not bother Mickus, after all, while he was a ParaNet Sysop, he admitted to Mike Corbin that he used to tape record Corbin, AFTER CORBIN CAUGHT HIM IN THE ACT, and would play the tape back to other people that Mike and Mickus had discussed. Ask Mike, he can give the details. By implication, I can only suppose that Corbin was not the only one recorded without their consent, but I do not know this for a fact. I realize that this message will not win any friends, but dammit, I am tired of this infighting and backbiting. Nothing is accomplished but BS while this proceeds. Now to get back to the CUFORN letter, Mickus remarked on Whitley Striebers tirade at the OMEGA Conference. Part of Striebers temper tantrum was directed at journelists in general because his flick was bombing, and part at UFO Magazine for some bad reviews that Whitley got. Then Strieber ranted about MY news story in reference to the mutilations. Well sorry 'bout that Whitley, after over ten years as a cop, I know facts and reports when I see it. For any of you that may be interested, I have a dozen cases of mutilations involving humans on file. NOW, IF MICKUS HAD CHECKED MY INFORMATION, I WOULD HAVE BEEN HAPPY TO GIVE HIM THE FACTS. However, as in the past, Tom found it more convienent to just go ahead and slam dunk, instead of checking. As he stated in his newsletter: "IF I REMEMBERR CORRECTLY, THE WESTCHESTER REMARK WAS REPEATED IN AN ARTICLE BY DON ECKER WITH REGARD TO HUMAN MUTILATIONS AT THE HANDS OF ALIENS, A SUBJECT DISCREDITED BY MOST SERIOUS UFO RESEARCHERS." The problem with responsible journelism, is to get the facts correct. In this case as in many of Toms other messages that infest the computer networks, he did not get his facts straight, or just didn't care enough to take the time. I suppose he thinks it is easier to just slam ahead, damn the torpeados. Well Tom, maybe you better read my texts again, I never once said that these things were caused by UFOs, but the wounds were VERY similar, and the deaths took place in areas with wide UFO activity. But wait, as Mickus said approx. a week ago to another user on the UFO echo, he is not a UFOlogist or researcher, he is just an observer. . . . Okay Tom, then get out of the way and let us get back to work. I mentioned to Tom several months ago in a message where he was spreading rumors about another UFOlogist, that if you can't help solve the problem, why contribute to it? I fully expect a nasty little note in the next few days, but in the mean time think about this, I don't state it unless I can prove it. -- Don Ecker - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Ecker@f22.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f18.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Mac.Druaidh Subject: Re: The Closest Encounter Date: 13 Dec 89 17:24:00 GMT BS} There appears to be a connection, almost as if people are BS} seeing things that may relate to their own "fears" or BS} "expectations." Almost as if the things they "see" are BS} designed just for them. Naturally. The mind does major filtering of the raw senses before the brain gets to play with the data; something inexplicible will be shunted into an understandable form, whether real or imaginary. Brain don't care. -- Mac Druaidh - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Mac.Druaidh@f18.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Don.Allen Subject: Lazar/Area51 Date: 14 Dec 89 06:53:00 GMT This is a note of THANKS to you for all the work and time you put into typing and putting online all the Lazar material. After reading this echo for some weeks now,and reading your last few posts on the "missing" subjects and the inconsistencies of the KLAS-TV material..I have a rather obvious question.. Has anyone from Paranet attempted to interview Lazar directly???? Or at least contact him (if possible)? I do realize that Lazar has probably shunned other interviewers and is perhaps "drained" from the events of the last few weeks,but (I feel) this is quite possibly the most significant "lead" we've had in the last few years. Let's face it..the MJ-12 docs have detoured alot of time and energy...I see this Lazar interview as more substantive. (IMHO) I've already "written off" Lear,Cooper and others as agents of mis-information and (apparently) they've done their job quite well. It may well be that "uncle sugar" has gotten to KLAS-TV and bullied them,I don't know. I'm more * disturbed * by all the implications of this than anything else..especially when I see a Dr Teller at the most recent Malta summit. I'd just hate to see any more data on Lazar/area51 "fizzle out" and "get buried" by the NSA and their goons. A question to Robert Klinn: With all of your past political/Govt experience and your knowledge on how these agencies work,do *you* see a connection between the happenings in Eastern Europe,the summit in Malta,the Area51 goings on and Bush's capitulation to the Chinese?? Maybe I'm paranoid,but I smell a RAT here.. -- Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Allen@paranet.FIDONET.ORG ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Information Date: 15 Dec 89 19:10:56 GMT The ParaNet digest has grown considerably. I am interested to see what the opinion is on the Usenet side of things are. We are considering making this conference available as a backbone echo, providing that the vote gets approved. I would like a show of hands as to who would favor this or oppose this. I am also interested in seeing if anyone out there has experience with this type of thing and would know the procedure for accomplishing this. Please reply to the address listed below and not in the digest itself. Thanks, Michael Corbin mcorbin@paranet.fidonet.org mcorbin@scicom.alphacdc.com -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************