Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 120
 
                          Wednesday, January 3rd 1990
 
Today's Topics:
 
                                   Anniversary
                               Foia For Yourself!
                                   IGNORANCE!!
                                   UFO Coverup?
                                     UFO Coverup?
                               Re: Some questions
                                Klass in spyBASE
                          Wisconsin UFO Base AP Article

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From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
Subject: Anniversary
Date: 3 Jan 90 01:15:00 GMT

Just a note to say Happy New Year to all, and remind everyone that this 
is the fourth anniversary of ParaNet. We started Jan. 1, 1986, with a 
single BBS, "The Other Side." To those of you who remember those 
halcyon days, thanks for sticking with us so long!

To more and better modemizing in the 90's!

Jim Speiser

--  
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG



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From: paranet!Linda.Murphy
Subject: Foia For Yourself!
Date: 3 Jan 90 07:49:21 GMT

I see you took that out of the CONSPIRACY echo... I had already created a file
out of it because the message writter did such a good job in explaining things.
Gee, there is sudden excitement over ULTRA.... wonder why now, when it wasn't
considered earlier within the message bases? Don't you find that interesting?

 ( 1:304/1
--  
Linda Murphy - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Linda.Murphy@paranet.FIDONET.ORG



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From: paranet!f630.n283.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jon.Long
Subject: IGNORANCE!!
Date: 2 Jan 90 20:57:08 GMT

I just HAD to put a message out on the echo about what just happened to 
yet prove the ignorance of the American public....I just left a board in 
Georgia(I wont say which one) that I called because it was an Amiga board 
and I wanted to get some files from it with my HST, anyway, in the 
message bases there was a base for discussion of astronomy, technology, 
y,ture, etc.. I read several messages from 'amatuer 
professionals'(really thats what they called themselves) who started 
spouting off about how there WAS ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE of UFOS or ET's 
and that it was all a bunch of you know what...Well I figured at first it 
was just some poor naive guy who had no idea what was going on, then on 
the next 10 messages I see THE SAME THING from 10 OTHER 'PROFESSIONAL' 
ASTRONOMERS...Well, hey I had no choice I had to jump in and defend one 
other poor soul who was alone in a board of 10+ NON-BELIEVERS...Soo, 
after 5 40 line messages trying my best to point out all the 
evidence(Roswell, cover-ups, Lazar, etc.) I expected to have reasonable 
discussion, but NOO I get jumped on as some one who still believes in 
Santa Claus, and one asked where 'they dig these people up'...Well, these 
people wouldnt even believe that Dr.Clyde Tombaugh has what two UFO 
sightings? yeah...and one guy claims he meets with Dr.Tombaugh regularly 
and they have never discussed his UFO sightings...Well, lets put it this, 
way, just like Bush and Panama, I have just declared war on this board..
   -Jon L.
BTW: T.S. Bennett, I still am interested in getting a copy of the tape 
you have, I have several friends who are intersted in it, and do live in 
the 818 area code so perhaps I can get one of them to take care of it..


--  
Jon Long - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jon.Long@f630.n283.z1.FIDONET.ORG



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From: ZAK@cu.nih.gov
Subject:  UFO Coverup?
Date: 3 Jan 90 14:22:50 GMT


-+From the SKEPTICS discussion group:

== Forwarded Mail ==

MAIL VIA BITNET FROM SKEPTIC@YORKVM1.BITNET  TUESDAY  01/02/90  11:06:39 P.M.

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#From:         "Kevin L. Cope" <ENCOPE@LSUVM-+
Subject:      UFO Coverup?
To:           "t. tipton lafleur" <KCD@NIHCU.BITNET-+,
              Lauren Jones <ZAK@NIHCU.BITNET-+

Last week, presidential spokesman Marlin Fitzwater inadvertently
declared that "the President has secret personal contacts with other
worlds."  Jeered by the press, he immediately corrected himself, claiming
that he meant to say " . . . contacts with other nations."  But did he
really mean exactly what he said?  Was this a slip?  Did anyone do a
stress analysis on his voice?  Is this another indication that the
government may know something about UFOs?





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From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross)
Subject: Re: Some questions
Date: 3 Jan 90 18:21:11 GMT


 
#From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser
#Subject: A few questions

#
#You raise some good points. My main problems with Lazar are: 1) He is 
#conveniently fuzzy on such important details as the atomic weight of 
#115, the frequency of the gravity-wave mechanism, etc. 

Jim:

Thanks for the response.  I'm new to this group and have enjoyed much of
the material and information posted.

I'm not a scientist, but I have deep, abiding interest in physics and
astronomy.  As a layperson, I'm rather well read but not enough to
qualify as an expert.  I spend my days writing the users' and
programmers' manual that go out with my companies UNIX-based system.
I've been doing this for over 12 years now.  I have held a number of
security clearances--some of which IMHO were higher than my job
required.  In the military, I was involved in work that is simply not
talked about without prior approval of the powers that be.

With this background, I began reading the information posted concerning
Lazar.  He is just too vague in all the wrong areas for me.  Something
as important as a new element is not something a physicist is going
forget about--even the smallest details.  The use of gravity waves for
propulsion and communications is also something that I doubt a physicist
would forget the details of.  Such things are the things that a
physicist's dreams are made of--new, revolutionary discoveries in the
field.

#2) He mentions a 
#badge with MAJ-12 on it, and says his clearance was MAJESTIC. First, 
#MJ-12 has been thoroughly discredited in my mind (but then, maybe that 
#was the point...!) Second, even if its real, I just don't think the 
#clearances work that way. Why would a grunt scientist have the same 
#clearance level as the head of the NSC, and other higher-ups? There 
#would most assuredly be super-compartmentalization at Lazar's level. 

The existence or non-existence of such an organization is not the point
for me.  Such "hyper-secret" organizations do in fact exist--usually for
a very limited time and to solve a very confined set of problems or to
research a very specific topic.  Some may take on a life of their own
and continue past their initial cut-off point.  Such is the nature of
the beast--government bureaucracy.

Also, his level of clearance isn't at all surprizing to me.  In the past
(and maybe even today), worker bees often got clearances that exceeded
their scope of activity.  This was often due to the nature of the
overall project.  I remember soldiers and sailors who got clearances
that allowed them access to Presidential Eyes Only information--though
most of them never even saw anything above Secret.  The world of
security clearances is a real mess and not nearly as orderly as one
would think.  This is also the reason that some highly classified
material has been compromised over the past several decades.

The intell-security boys know this and do the best they can to stop
leaks.  Also, this is the main reason for the extreme
compartmentalization that one finds in various organizations involved in
highly classified work.

My concern is this--if Lazar is for real, why is he still alive?  It is
not a fiction that termination with extreme prejudice exists.  It is the
ultimate leak-stopping method.  This single fact makes me very cautious
about accepting anything Lazar has to say.  That he is still alive may
mean a number of things not the least of which is that he is a plant.
His task may be to blow smoke and muddy the waters.  Of course this
means that there really is something to the theory of a government
coverup.  But what exactly are they covering up?  How much of what Lazar
says is true and how much is fabrication?  Is he doing this with malice
aforethought, or is he simply an unwitting pawn?

I don't think we can really divine the answers to such questions at this
point.  That is why I'd like to see what some of the more learned and
erudite colleagues have to say about this--element 115, gravity wave
propulsion and communications, creation of artificial gravity, etc.
Based upon the disclosures of Lazar in his various interviews.

#3) 
#Although he talks SOMETHING like a scientist, I'm not overly impressed 
#with his grasp of basic scientific concepts. Don't ask me why...I'm no 
#scientist myself, but I know what they sound like. 4) He says they 
#showed the flask of 115 on the KLAS interview, and a couple of days 
#later it was stolen. Well, isn't that special. What would YOU have done 
#after showing Uncle Sam and untold thousands of people that you are in 
#possession of the rarest, most secret, and most dangerous substance on 
#earth? The words "Safety Deposit Box" come to mind....

I had not heard about this before (again I'm a relative newcomer to UFO
research and to this group in particular).  If he in fact had some of
this new element, I'd be extremely curious as to how he got it
out--considering that it is considered so "rare" and "secret."  And once
he got it out, why didn't he just take a small fragment of it to an
independent lab for testing?  He could have done so and put the rest of
it away in a "secret" place.  Shoot, he could have given it to me--no
one would find it on my desk at work. 8-)

The fact that there is no independent confirmation of this element's
existence and that he in fact had it in his possession causes me grave
concerns about the veracity of Lazar's testimony.

#
#Still, this is the damnedest UFO story yet, and I'm loving every minute 
#of it. I'm also wondering who's behind it. I strongly doubt your idea 
#that its just fantasy-fulfillment for Lazar. There's just too much to 
#it.

Granted and so am I.  I did mean to imply that Lazar was into just
fantasy-fulfillment.  My point was simply that all of us who are
involved in researching UFOs must not let what we want to be true be the
evidence for what is true.  This is not a flame, but one of the biggest
reasons that I haven't been willing in the past to get involved openly is
that too many of the folks seem to have already made up their minds that
UFOs exist and that they are from another planet.  Part of me (the part
that causes me to buy several dozen science fiction books a year much to
my wife's dismay) wants to accept that UFOs are real and that they do
come from another planet.  But the rest of me is only willing to admit
that something is going on--a phenomenon of global proportions.  As
such, I think it must be investigated.  I can also accept the premise
that the government has been involved with such research for quite some
time.  Further, the government has discovered something that they feel
must be kept from John and Jane Public for national security reasons.

But to leap beyond these things at this time seems to me to be very
premature.  Based upon my own readings in this area, it seems that much
of the current literature is filled with second and third hand accounts
of strange things.  Many of the books read more like science fiction
than solid research.  This is not to diminish the value of such
accounts, but I'm not willing to inflate their value either.  The fact
that there are roughly 15 percent of the sightings that cannot be
explained says that we have something to begin working on.  As for the
abductions, I can only say that the accounts I've read are quite
compelling (for the most part), but that does not tell us a thing about
what is causing this part of the phenomenon.

At this point in time, I think we really need to do more research.  We
need to examine more and more evidence.  But we need to also ask some
very hard and serious questions.  We need to be more like cops--who
stands to gain if this turns out to be true?  Who stands to gain if it
turns out to be a ruse?  If UFOs are in fact interplanetary vehicles,
what is such an advanced civilization doing messing around with a
galactic backwater planet like Earth?  I don't buy the Space Brothers
bit--not yet anyway.

Personally, I would like to find out that we do indeed have galactic
neighbors.  I would like to think that we could come to terms with them
and become part of a galactic civilization.  Mankind is a pioneering lot
and space is one frontier that we have longed to explore.  But I do not
believe that just because a civilization is highly advanced
technologically and highly evolved means that they'll be peace loving
and willing to share all with us.  Good cannot exist without bad.

Again, thanks for the response.

Gene Gross






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From: keithr@tolkien.wv.tek.com
Subject: Klass in spyBASE
Date: 3 Jan 90 19:32:29 GMT



I had occasion a while back to run Philip Klass's name through spyBASE
and got a hit -- just one though.  Here it is:

KLASS  PHILLIP J.
   Intelligence/Parapolitics (Paris) 6/85 (5)

Trouble is "Intelligence/Parapolitics" is some sort of hard to get 
magazine about (obviously) intelligence matters published in Paris
(France).  I have not tried hard yet, but just thought I'd see what
this mailing list knows about this article.  I think Klass is mentioned
in the article and is not the author, but I am not sure of this.  The
article is 5 pages long and appeared in the June 1985 issue.

What is spyBASE?  It is a commercially available database consisting of
names found in over 200 investigative books and in thousands of pages from
periodicals dealing with the intelligence establishment.  It runs on
your PC compatible.  If you would like a copy to augment your UFO
research, just write to:

Micro Associates
Box 5369
Arlington, VA  22205

Phone: 703-241-5437

I also ran Friedman and Moore through and got no hits.  But James Oberg
showed up (New York Times 2/14/88 (E22)).  Somebody named Rosanne Klass
showed up -- any relation to Phil?  And, of course, MJ-12 names like Gordon
Gray, Sidney Souers, and Vannevar Bush showed up.  No surprise there.

Every UFO researcher needs to read as deeply as he/she can in the
intelligence literature, of course.  The key to the UFO situation in
America seems to be the intelligence angle.  Soon, I will send this
mailing list a bibliography of general books about intelligence and
about elite control of America that I have found helpful.  One thing
that has become clear to me recently reading this literature is the
influence on and even control of, sometimes, the media that the
intelligence establishment has.  The idea of manipulation of
media-disseminated UFO information by the intelligence establishment
is not at all far-fetched when you have done your homework in the
intelligence literature.


-Keith Rowell, Tektronix, Wilsonville, OR   keithr@orca.WV.TEK.COM







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From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jeff.Ballard
Subject: Wisconsin UFO Base AP Article
Date: 3 Jan 90 23:34:00 GMT

The Associated Press..........Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin
Alf and E.T. may have liked the idea, but few people on Earth were
willing to dig deep enough to build a $25 million welcoming station
for visitors from outer space.
Thomas L. Weber, 51, said financial problems caused him to close the
office that was the center for promoting the project.
"We got tens of thousands of letters, but we couldn't even afford
postage to answer the mail," Weber said.
"I guess if people had slipped $5, or $10 or $20 in each envelope,
we'd still be operating," he said.
........................................................AP
--- ZMailQ 1.11 - Beta C
 * Origin: -=<ParaNet Alpha(sm)>=- Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:1 (1:104/422.0)
)SEEN-BY: 30163/0 3 22 100 150 401
--  
Jeff Ballard - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: Jeff.Ballard@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG



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