Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 127 Wednesday, January 17th 1990 Today's Topics: Re: MJ-12 Document - HOAX! Lazar Astronomers and UFOs cows cows Re: Cold Fusion Re: Lazar/Area51 cows Some personal thoughts ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Torson Subject: Re: MJ-12 Document - HOAX! Date: 15 Jan 90 16:54:42 GMT Yes, the article by Klass in the latest Skeptical Inquirer seems to be pretty convincing evidence that the MJ-12 Truman memorandum is a fake. However, I guess I have to ask. Has anyone checked the authenticity of the Truman to Bush letter that Klass says is the source of the signature? I don't happen to have a copy of it in my files. :-) It will certainly be interesting to see what Freidman's response will be to all this. Do you know if anyone has contacted him to get his reaction? -- Jim Torson - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Torson@f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Torson Subject: Lazar Date: 15 Jan 90 16:55:46 GMT Well, I finally got to see a tape of the KLAS Saturday night 2-hour special on UFOs. It was pretty good, although I think they might have tried to cover too much ground. Also, there were a few errors. For one, it is not correct that Linda Howe's research has found evidence that animal mutilation cuts slice between the cells without damaging the cells. When I talked with her during a break at the MUFON conference, she said that is a false rumor. Instead, they have found evidence that the cuts were done by something very hot, e.g., maybe something like a laser. I was disappointed that they didn't have more of the interviews with Lazar. However, thanks to the lengthy transcipts of other Lazar interviews provided by ParaNet, I have begun to form a "gut" feel for what he is saying. I must say that I agree with you. He just doesn't sound like a scientist who has actually worked with the stuff that he is claiming. There seem to be numerous places where he just doesn't provide the technical details that I would expect (and want). For example, he says that they used an X-ray spectrograph for testing the magic element 115, but fails to provide any details. Didn't he say that 115 is stable and not radioactive? So, does the stuff emit X-rays without being radioactive? Doesn't make sense to me. He says they did density and weight calculations. Surely such basic analysis would have been done long before Lazar arrived on the scene. He also says he can't remember what other tests they did on it. I simply can't believe that he would just forget. He just seems to be unable to provide any real technical details. He is claiming that this is a supposedly new element. Well, I have worked with scientists for about fifteen years, and I would expect that you couldn't get a scientist to shut up about all the technical details on how they analyzed it! He also claims that the 115 emits an anti-matter particle when bombarded with protons. So, where do the protons come from? He of course doesn't explain. All in all, my "gut" feeling is that there are just too many holes in his "technical" descriptions. If he really had access to the things that he claims, then he would be providing plenty of technical details in an attemt to convince the technical community that he knows what he is talking about. If we only had Lazar's claims, I think I would be tempted to just dismiss the whole thing. However, with all the other curious aspects of this, you just have to wonder what's really going on! Perhaps it's more disinformation to keep us confused. Maybe the purpose is to divert attention from the Roswell crash investigation, which seems to be one of the few things that really stand up to scrutiny. -- Jim Torson - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Torson@f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Torson Subject: Astronomers and UFOs Date: 15 Jan 90 16:57:25 GMT Your message of about a month ago finally got routed to me. You had asked about the professional astronomer who was part of the reason I got interested in UFOs. He has had only one possible UFO sighting. He once saw something that looked like a meteor near the horizon. However, it was going nearly straight up rather than down as a "normal" meteor would. He said it could probably be explained as a meteor that just grazed the atmosphere and then returned to space, so it certainly was not very mysterious. However, he lent me a copy of a survey of the members of the American Astronomical Society (if I remember correctly) that was done by Peter Sturrock, who was at the time (if I remember correctly) director of the Stanford Linear Accelerator. That was about ten years ago, so I don't remember many details. However, I think it mentioned that a number of the respondents HAD seen puzzling things in the sky and I think most of them wanted to remain anonymous. Also, a number of the respondents felt that the UFO subject deserved serious scientific study. Jim Speiser recently mentioned this report. (Jim, can you supply any further details?) Perhaps a copy of the study is still available from Sturrock, who BTW is currently President of the Society for Scientific Exploration, which is dedicated to the study of various anomalous phenomena, e.g., out-of-body experiences, evidence for reincarnation, and various psychic phenomena. Sturrock's current address is: Center for Space Science and Astrophysics, ERL 306, Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305. Another astronomer who was convinced of the reality of the UFO phenomenon was of course the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek. His books are still a good place to start for someone who is unsure about whether the subject deserves serious study. The title of his 1977 book is: _The Hynek UFO Report_. -- Jim Torson - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Torson@f1.n304.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bryon.Smith Subject: cows Date: 15 Jan 90 00:39:00 GMT In a message to Bryon Smith <01-14-90 15:10> John Komar wrote: JK> I've got a stack of papers from the Oregon State Police JK> concerning the cattle mutilations around the Fort Rock/Pine JK> Mountain areas that occurred around June '89, and the JK> reports only cover the actual animals, anything else JK> connected is not included such as strange lights, etc. I have discovered that you must take it upon yourself to ask them if there have been any UFOs in the area during that time. Normally they will not give out that information unless you ask them. ...Bryon -- Bryon Smith - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bryon.Smith@p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG!John.Komar Subject: cows Date: 15 Jan 90 01:08:00 GMT In a message to John Komar <01-14-90 17:39> Bryon Smith wrote: BS=>I have discovered that you must take it upon yourself to BS=>ask them if there have been any UFOs in the area during BS=>that time. Normally they will not give out that BS=>information unless you ask them. Even then they are reluctant. Received a phone call from MUFON (cringe) State Director of Illinois. Three persons in East Memphis (my backyard) saw lights near in the sky. The Guy and 2 teenagers (one his son) were witnesses. The guy is a scientist, credited with research on magnetic ??? (didn't catch the rest of it), also has missing time experiences. DOES NOT want to share this with anyone. The SD in IL has a new member who is the cousin of the son and received the info. She is trying to get them to talk with me at this time, but I must wait until they approve. John -- John Komar - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Komar@f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG!John.Komar Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Date: 15 Jan 90 07:00:00 GMT In a message to All <01-13-90 17:06> T.s. Bennett wrote: TB=> There are several pewople in this net who are likewise TB=> CLOSE MINDED and unimaginative when it comes to allowing TB=>new TB=> ideas to flow in to displace old ideas. Who appointed you OVERSEER of the psychology of man? Don't mean to be snippy, just curious. I've noticed you have made personal judgments against (and I use the word "against") persons here who you have never met in person and I was just wondering where you obtained the power to "see" into other people's minds thru your computer. Just curious, that's all. Happy New Year to you and your's. Regards, John -- John Komar - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Komar@f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG!John.Komar Subject: Re: Lazar/Area51 Date: 15 Jan 90 07:02:00 GMT In a message to Bryon Smith <01-13-90 17:04> T.s. Bennett wrote: TB=> You are starting to sound like a guy who filled these TB=>columns with talk of Nephilim whatever they are, so please TB=>load it somewhere else. T.S., could you please explain your understanding of "Nephilim" to me? It is possible, although you'll agree not probable that you might be using the word in the wrong context. Regards, John -- John Komar - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Komar@f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bryon.Smith Subject: cows Date: 15 Jan 90 14:45:00 GMT In a message to Bryon Smith <01-14-90 18:08> John Komar wrote: JK> Received a phone call from MUFON (cringe) State Director of JK> Illinois. Three persons in East Memphis (my backyard) saw JK> this with anyone. The SD in IL has a new member who is the JK> cousin of the son and received the info. She is trying to JK> get them to talk with me at this time, but I must wait JK> until they approve. Sounds kinda like this case over here where the woman was visiting her mother south east of Fort Smith in the country, and was outside putting the bike into the garage when she noticed a blue beam shine down on her and she looked up and saw a blue disk hovering over her mother's house. She dropped the bike and tried to screem and could not, she tried to run but could not, she looked back at the disk and suddenly the blue beam vanished and the disk shot straight into the air, then darted off toward the east in a flash and was gone from sight. Her husband heard me on a radio program one morning and wrote my number down, then he called me and told me the story, but she refuses to talk to me about it. He wants some answers, she refuses the answers and don't want to talk with anyone about it. Certain information in the case causes me to think that she has had encounters with this disk (or one like it) before. Makes it hard when people won't talk to you about their encounter. Good luck. ...Bryon -- Bryon Smith - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bryon.Smith@p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) Subject: Some personal thoughts Date: 16 Jan 90 16:25:53 GMT This is not in response to anyone in particular. It is more a series of thoughts that have been running through my brain rather like children playing hide-and-seek. I'm throwing them out to see what discussion it can spark and what feedback I can get from the rest of the folks out there. As some of you may have noticed by now, I'm not big on Lazar. I have posted thoughts here on what concerns me. Now let me talk about it from a "what-if-it-is-true" perspective. Keep this proviso in mind--I am not a recognized expert in anything except putting my feet in my mouth, which I often do with great alacrity and without outside assistance. It seems to me that our current state of science provides no way around the FTL limitation on interstellar travel. This would mean that to colonize beyond this planet would take untold generations moving at even 99% of c. Yet, if Lazar is to be believed, the possibility of FTL travel exists. It could be done using something we still don't quite understand--gravity. Reading one of the interviews with Lazar (so kindly posted by Michael Corbin--thank you), I was struck by something that he said. When asked about traveling those vast distances, Lazar said they pointed the gravity amplifiers at the place they wanted to go and space/time seemed to fold. Then I recalled something from Frank Herbert's wonderful book, _Dune_. In there, the Guild folded space to bring about travel to distant planets defeating the FTL limitation. Such a method of travel, if truely possible, would enable humanity to move out into space as a serious spacefaring species. We could build smaller craft than what we currently envision. We could move out in directions that seem the most promising of finding planets that are inhabitable. Okay, we now have that capability. Who controls it? What does this do to the society as a whole--don't forget to include religions in this. Often we exclude religions as if they were some anathema or pox on the society. In fact, they are one of the major glues holding diverse peoples together. Granted all the negatives--but don't overlook the positives and the strength of belief. Where do we go first? How many people go and who are they? What happens to our own planetary struggles and strifes? To think that answers to these and many other questions are simple or don't really matter is to ignore the nature of the beast. We set aside our differences, at least in public, with our Allies in WWII, but shortly after the war was over and recovery had set in we were back at each other's throats. (and this isn't something my Mom told me--I remember) Just because we have a golden opportunity for the human race doesn't mean that we'll be able to set aside our internecine struggles back on the home world. And what concerns me is the potential destructive capability of such marvelous technology. Now, I'm not saying that we should wait until we solve all of our earthbound problems--poverty, racism, illnesses, bent emotional states, etc. That is like people who wait to get married or have children until they can afford to do so--it just never happens. I think that if we have such technology let's go ahead and use it. But in doing so, let's at least be a bit wiser than those who have gone before. Let's look at the potential affects of this technology on the the people and world around us. Let's prepare for it now--even without such marvelous technology. I would like to see humanity go into space and not have to worry if the home world will be here when they get back. One last thing and then I'll close. It has to do with the so-called Philadelphia Experiment. In the most recent Paranet newsletter someone mentioned it. I understood from what that person said that he believed its basic validity. How much investigation has been done into this recently? Does anyone out there have more information other than Moore's book, which I have read? If Teller was involved with it, why hasn't he done something about it since then? Gene Gross gross@dg-rtp.DG.com ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************