Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 132 Monday, January 22nd 1990 Today's Topics: Re: Lazar/Area51 Hygrids/115/AIDS A new book Animal Mutilations Re: Replies Re: Lazar Re: Replies Re: Replies Re: Replies Mars Face Re: A New Book cows ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bryon.Smith Subject: Re: Lazar/Area51 Date: 20 Jan 90 16:51:00 GMT In a message to Bryon Smith <01-19-90 22:22> Robert Sikes wrote: RS> are you referring to Melchizidek the high priest of the RS> Bible? Yeah, that's the one he mentioned, but I don't have much information on him. Working on another project at this time. We are trying to trace any evidence that we can that might indicate that aliens have been here working on Earth for a very long time. ...Bryon -- Bryon Smith - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bryon.Smith@p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.) Subject: Hygrids/115/AIDS Date: 21 Jan 90 18:45:22 GMT We will know much more about human heredity in about a decade when the Human Genome Project is finished. At the present, we know as a rough estimate that the DNA sequences of any two humans are about 99% identical and human an chimpanzee are about 97%. We cannot breed with apes as they have a differerent number of chromosomes than we. If we were to find significant blocks of DNA that are not homologous to chimp, gorilla and other mammmals, then the ET introgression hypothesis would be more viable, but there just isn't room for much new information. I think the difficulties with the hybrid hypothesis are insurmountable already. If alien DNA caused a loss of fertility in the offspring, then it would be extremely difficult for alien genes to spread through the population, unless they conferred an enormous selective advantage. The offspring of donkey/horse and donkey/zebra crosses are completely infertile and to my knowledge zebra/horse crosses have resulted in no foals at all. Sheep/goat and sheep/cow chimaeras have been made by mixing cells from the two kinds of embryos and implanting the mixture into a receptive female, but I am not aware of any crosses. Mammal embryos are pretty tough; I've carried cow embryos in a test tube of medium on an airplane in my shirt pocket, 1/2 embryos develop into normal animals most of the time, 1/8th's of sheep embryos have yielded octuplet lambs. That's about as close as we have come to actually cloning mammals. Humans forty thousand years ago may have been less racially differentiated than now, but Cro-Magnon made art, tools, etc and doesn't seem to have been too different physically from us today from what we can tell. Our languages seem to be at least that old. However, 40K is enough time for real genetic differences if the selection or drift were strong enough. However, humans interbreed whenever races come in contact and that has fortunately prevented us from diverging into separate species. Miscegenation isn't just fun, it's kept us together as one species. As for "aliens" being "abortions," by definition abortions are terminated pregancies. It is possible to transplant early embryos between related species and have normal development with special techniques, but not fetuses. Also, mutations in cells of somatic tissues may lead to cancer, but do not change the form or nature of the organism. These changes can only be inherited if they occur in the germ cells, so 'mutation" is a slow process requiring induction, breeding, and maturation. They aren't something that quckly changes a population, despite Hollywood and TV. Most cells in the body are terminally differentiated so even a "virus" wouldn't affect the properties of children or adults. Much has been made of the rather distant relation of the AIDS virus to Bovine Leukemia virus, but the differences are far too great to have occurred recently despite the high mutation rate of retroviruses in general. One of the two AIDS viruses may be close enough to a monkey virus to be derived from it in the last century or so, but this is still speculative. These "rumors" do not just get started, they are the result of deliberate disinformation campaigns. Unfortunately, they have gained wide currency in the Black, Hispanic, and Gay communities, at least in California where I have first hand knowledge. According to an article in the May 1989, Scientific American, by the scientists who have synthesized 106, 107, 108, and 109, the atomic weight of the isotope of 115 expected to be most stable is 291, but their graph suggests that it could be as high as 299. Their technique uses collisions between heavy and medium weight nuclei rather than neutrons and high atomic weight targets or protons and heavy nuclei followed by beta decay as in supernova explosions. No one would try to make 115 in the lab by bombarding uranium or other heavy elements with protons. I agree that the AW of 115 is not just incidental information. If any isotope 115 is stable enough to be isolated in macroscopic amounts and is not a radiation hazard, then there may be something wrong with our current theories of nuclear stability. Knowing which isotope would help us refine those theories. It would also be helpful to know what kind of "antimatter" is emitted by 115 after bombardment with protons. Positrons would not be unexpected if the nucleus did not simply fission or spallate, but antiprotons, antineutrons, or antialpha particles, etc. are unlikely. I find this one of the weakest parts of Lazar's story, so say nothing of the improbability of anyone at his level even learning about what he claims has been happening. The Gravity Amplifier idea also has problems. Gravity can appear as a wave according to General Relativity and certain binary star systems are losing energy at a rate consistent with the predicted losses due to gravitational radiation. This is quite good indirect evidence. A new generation of gravitational wave detectors is about ready to begin searching for GW's. The difficulty is that gravity is about 39 orders of magnitude weaker than the Electromagnetic and Strong Nuclear Forces, so GW and gravitons are extremely difficult to detect. A machine which warped space as Lazar describes would be the mass/ energetic equivalent of a small "Black Hole" and should create enormous tidal effects on its surroundings and possibly also intense Hawking radiation. The process which concentrates the annihilation energy of the antimatter to create the warp is unlikely to be 100% efficient, so there should be detectable energy leakage as well. Frankly, this part of Lazar's story sounds like handwaving; he gives no useful details about the masses and energies involved, let alone the physics. The gravitational force is so weak and the permeability of space so low that we are talking about stellar masses, not the conversion of few grams of a hypothetical element to energy. ParaNet should contact somebody like the gravitational theorist and SF writer Robert Forward (Dragon's Egg) or Kip Thorne for an expert opinion. Finally, it has been suggested by a conferee on SKEPTICS that the glass implant removed from an alleged "abductee" was a fragment of a mirror. I think that this is very likely, particularly if the silver and other metals were on one surface rather than being distributed thoughout the glass as I had surmised from the description on ParaNet. Mirrors of all sizes are a lot commoner than photochromic sunglasses. --John -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f20.n3607.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Gregg.Pasterick Subject: A new book Date: 21 Jan 90 19:43:00 GMT I noticed a new book in the bookstore the other day. Sorry, but the title escapes me, but it dealt with the wave of October, 1973. Has anyone read this book yet? Gregg -- Gregg Pasterick - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Gregg.Pasterick@f20.n3607.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Eric.Brown Subject: Animal Mutilations Date: 22 Jan 90 03:29:00 GMT The Charlotte Observer in Charlotte, NC recently reported on two animal mutilations this month (January) in nearby Cabarrus County. A cow and a deer were found, each with their tongue and left ear cut out. The story alluded to the fact that there have been other similar mutilations in the area recently, but this is the first that I have heard of them. Nothing was mentioned as to the nature of the cuts or the presense or absense of blood. Local authorities blamed the mutilations on satanic cults, but I have not seen any wild devil-worshippers running around here in the Bible belt. Then again, I have not seen any UFOs, either. If I find out anything more about the nature of these mutilations, I will be sure and post it here. Eric Brown Charlotte, NC (Woops, I misspelled -presence- and -absence- in one of the above paragraphs. Sorry bout that.) -- Eric Brown - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Eric.Brown@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Robert.Sikes Subject: Re: Replies Date: 21 Jan 90 07:21:00 GMT THE CLOSE PROXIMITY TO A GERM WARFARE LAB AND CLOSE PROXIMITY IN TIME TO THE DISCOVERY OF THE AIDS SITUATION SURELY GIVE FOOD FOR THOUGHT. I DIDN'T INTEND TO IMPLY THAT I HAD DRAWN ANY CONCLUSIONS. WHETHER THE MANY, MANY BIRDS' DEATH WERE AIDS RELATED OR SOME OTHER VIRUS IS IRRELEVANT. IT WAS SURELY A VERY, VERY UNUSUAL AND STILL UNEXPLAINED EVENT SIR. -- Robert Sikes - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Robert.Sikes@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: Lazar Date: 21 Jan 90 08:29:00 GMT Not suprisingly, I agree with you on Lazar. THe fact the he refuses to provide info on his schooling (which could be checked) or on his pay stubs (which would be a form of proof) and his convienient demurring on some matters because of the work his company is involved in are all rather telling. If he is worried about his companies contract, he has already gone way to far to think that recitence on some of the details is going to keep the gvt off his back. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: Replies Date: 21 Jan 90 08:32:00 GMT I don't see a likely connection to AIDS. AIDS takes years to kill. It is unlikely the birds would have hung around the lab for their whole life. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Robert.Sikes Subject: Re: Replies Date: 22 Jan 90 04:23:00 GMT first of all, the metabolism of birds is very rapid compared to humans and they would be very good subjects for gw experimentation. In any event, I repeat that the comment was made as food for thought regarding accidents at germ warfare labs. However, I can't discount that that lab or any lab wasn't the source of the aids virus. -- Robert Sikes - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Robert.Sikes@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: Replies Date: 22 Jan 90 17:30:00 GMT It's true that the metabolism of birds is fast, but that doesn't have much to do with the speed of development of the AIDS virus. It seems to me it would work against your hypothesis. SInce AIDS has been shown to be a very slow disease to develope, it would be unlikely for it to be much of a factor in animals whose life span is relatively short. I'm not saying your suggested connection is wrong. You asked for comments on it and now that you are getting some you seem to be getting rather defensive. As to birds being good fodder for GM, I would again have to offer an opposite view. If one is going to choose an animal for GM experimentation, no one in their right mind would choose something that could fly away and spread the GM into the general population unless they were specifically trying to spread it. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) Subject: Mars Face Date: 22 Jan 90 22:21:22 GMT -+ -+ From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton -+ Subject: Re: Some personal thoughts -+ Date: 17 Jan 90 21:50:00 GMT -+ -+ You raise interesting questions. I find the Lazar suggestion that the -+ gravity amplifiers reach out and grab a piece of their destination and -+ stretch it to be fairly unconvincing. The dicountinuties and -+ distortions that would cause would be tremendous not to mention the -+ problems of aiming at something many light years away. Jim, as I've already said before, I'm not a physicist. But it seems to me that warpping space/time like he indicates would have repercussions that would be detectable. Consider what he says happens, they fold the space/time fabric and then allow it to "pop" back in place. The effects of such manipulations would cause a tremendous wrinkle in the S/T fabric and the side-effects could not be minimal. All objects with gravity create a distortion in the S/T fabric. The larger the gravity field the larger the distortion of local S/T fabric and the further away this local distortion is felt. The Sun causes a tremendous distortion that is felt even here on Earth some 93 million miles away. Then there are black holes, theory but a very serious theory. These black holes cause an incredible distortion of the S/T fabric not only locally but, if current speculation is correct, also over tremendous distances. Enough to form galaxies, according to current thinking. If the UFOs did indeed use gravity for propulsion in the manner he indicates, the distortions to the S/T fabric throughout the galaxy would have to be incredible. And it would be noticeable even with our level of technology. This does not mean that there might not be a way to harness gravity as a means of travel both on and off planet. But I seriously doubt that one would simply point the amplifiers at a distant object and then fold S/T. Gene -+ From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser -+ Subject: Odds and Ends -+ Date: 19 Jan 90 08:54:00 GMT -+ -+ -+ Yes, Gene, I'm very interested in it, and have been following it since -+ the first OMNI story, what, 7 years ago? Its another case that I -+ straddle the fence on. I'm not terribly impressed with Mr. Hoagland's -+ ......................................................... Jim, I'm not sure when the first article appeared. I remember thinking at the time, "shades of the National Enquirer." But then I read Hoagland's book and started thinking about it. Hoagland was far too ready to proclaim that we'd found evidence that we are not alone to suit me. So I contacted the people at the Mars Project for further information. I got plenty, including some photographs of the Face. I set about studying the material for myself. I now think that we are dealing with something very unusual. If the Face and other objects are of natural origins, they are among the most rare and unique anywhere in this solar system. For this reason alone the objects are worth serious study. If they turn out not to be of natural origin, then I think we have to really deal with when and where did the "builders" of such objects come from. Could these objects then become a real version of the monolith from Clarke's fictional stories? Among the things that I think folks would be interested in: Using state-of-the-art fractal analysis of Cydonia (where the objects were discovered), Dr. Mark Carlotto, Head of Applied Intelligence Division, the Analytical Sciences Corporation, said he tried to develop criteria to identify possible non-natural objects on planetary surfaces. Based on his findings, Dr. Carlotto has said, "I hope that NASA would broaden the SETI charter to look at this Viking imagery." Erol Torun, a cartographer for the Defense Mapping Agency, has been studying the D&M pyramid, a five-sided structure located near the Face. He has demonstrated that the pyramid has a regular geometry that expresses mathematical constants in such a manner as to suggest that it is a product of intelligent design. "The geometrty is principally expressed in e and pi and the square root of 3 and 5." Further, Erol has examined the pyramid and compared it to objects that may have been formed by wind wrosion. He concludes that the D&M pyramidal structure did not appear to be formed by wind streaming because it is five-sided, and it is a symmetrical structure. Other pyramidal structures on Mars were examined. He said that they were the result of slumping and mass wasting and it is conceivable that they could be formed by wind. His conclusion is, "It behooves us to find out what happened to produce such objects that cannot be found on earth or on any photograph we have of Mars." Personally, I think there is good reason to tie in the study of UFOs and the Face. Both are enough to keep an independent researcher busy for the rest of his or her life. As you point out, the standard response from the established scientific community is "Kermit the Frog." That simply points out the closed minded approach of our friends on that side of the fence. Gene gross@dg-rtp.DG.com P.S. On the alien inbreeding, I wonder if it is possible to manipulate genes to such a degree that one could implant a certain amount of "alien" genetic DNA into the cells. This leads me to another possibility that of genetic experimentation to cause a more intelligent creature to evolve. Could this explain the sudden appearance of Cro-Magnon man and the sudden demise of the Neanderthal man? Just something to think about. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!John.Burke Subject: Re: A New Book Date: 23 Jan 90 00:01:00 GMT Gregg: Do you mean _The October Scenario_ by Kevin Randle? (Sorry, I haven't read it.) -- John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Burke@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f20.n3607.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jerry.Woody Subject: cows Date: 23 Jan 90 02:03:00 GMT ->Let me guess, there was either no tracks, or the ones that ->were found were not normal to the area. ->I wonder if the cow's tracks lead to the location where the ->cow had been found ? Or if it appeard the cow had been ->dropped or lowered into that location. If it was winter Well, we never got any farther than the initial news story. The Police report in the newspaper gave no names. We got the impression from the Sheriff Dept. that it was none of our business & that we really shouldn't persue it any farther since it was 'under investigation' and no information would be released. There had been 'satanic cult' activity in the area, but all the authorities found were dead chickens. There was another strange report in the Decatur Daily. It was doing a story on satanic cults and listed some animal mute events. I don't think i have the article to this one so I'm quoting from memory. This was about a cattle mutilation in Blount County, which neighbors Cullman on the East. I think the identical cuts were made to this farmers' cow, but he also stated that he found a very strange dart or arrow "that he had never seen the like of before" beside the cow. They wrote it up to satanic cults so no further info was given. Jerry. -- Jerry Woody - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jerry.Woody@f20.n3607.z1.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************