Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 138 Monday, January 29th 1990 Today's Topics: Re: Odds and Ends Re: Mars Face Lazar and the Planet of the Sols Re: Lazar/Area51 Mars investigation chronology MARS INVESTIGATION CHRONOLOGY (fwd) MARS INVESTIGATION CHRONOLOGY Re: Lazar -- Los Alamos Article Conclusion The Nullabor The Nullabor Skeptics/Science/WR Re: Mars Face Re: A New Book ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Subject: Re: Odds and Ends Date: 27 Jan 90 18:55:00 GMT > Is the Face on Mars for real? > I have read the book `The Face on Mars', and I found it odd > that the author saw reason to use a different computer-enhancement > technique to that normally used by NASA. The normal method gave > us fantastically sharp pictures, so why was a separate method > necessary if not to make the feature look more human than it > really was? The pictures looked fake to me. My suspicions > were further aroused later in the book when the author started > talking about "harmonics of the speed of light" which to my > physics is an absurdity. > My conclusion was that it was pseudo-science, the purpose > being $$$ > Regards John Daly Tasmania (Land of the Tasmanian Devils) To tell you the truth, John, I have never heard of the book, "The Face on Mars." The most popular book on the subject is "The Monuments of Mars" by Richard Hoagland. The photos he (and most others I'm aware of) refer to are not image-enhanced beyond the normal procedure performed by NASA, they are, in effect, raw photos, at least to my knowledge. "Harmonics of the speed of light" does sound like psychobabble to me. I suggest "Unusual Martian Surface Features" (DePietro & Molinaar) as being the least pseudo- and the most -science done thus far on the subject, along with Dr. Mark Carlotto's article in Applied Optics. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: Mars Face Date: 28 Jan 90 04:04:00 GMT Gene- Why would the discovery that the face on mars is an artifact require us to rethink our science?? It may make *some* religous folks rethink there religions, but I doubt it would even have much effect on that aspect of life. Religious folk are so used to dealing with fuzzy thinking that it will be extremely easy for them to adapt, after all, the bible did say something about god having other worlds to care for; the religious folks will dig that part out and suddenly find that they "knew" we weren't alone all along. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!George.Lucas Subject: Lazar and the Planet of the Sols Date: 28 Jan 90 06:17:00 GMT There are at least two places on Earth where there are Sols. Greeting a visitor entering the semi-circular driveway of John Lear's Las Vegas house is a frontispiece ornately embedded with "Palacio del Sol." And, from Robert Lazar's mouth comes "Sol 3," a term he says he read in briefing papers at S-4, the alleged UFO section of the Nevada Test Site. "Sol 3" is supposed to refer to Earth since Earth is the third planet from the Sun, just as the alien's home planet is called Reticulum 4 because it is the fourth planet from the Binary-star system, Zeta Reticuli II. Although Lear and Lazar are friends, it is, perhaps, too crass to suggest that Lazar got the Sol terminology from the front of Lear's house. But, why "Sol 3" instead of "Sun 3"? Why switch from English to Spanish? --George-- -- George Lucas - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: George.Lucas@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bryon.Smith Subject: Re: Lazar/Area51 Date: 27 Jan 90 16:18:00 GMT In a message to Bryon Smith <01-23-90 19:40> Michael Chapman wrote: MC> Anyhow I am an extremely enthusiastic follower of the MC> ParaNet UFO & ET echoes and I wait with bated breath for MC> all new info coming forth on the Lazar / Lear topics. As MC> an Amatuer Astronomer (and a Laboratory Scientist) I find MC> staring at the night skies thru a 'scope an absolutely MC> stimulating experience full of incredible majesty, wonder MC> and exitement. Very glad to have you join us in the ParaNet UFO echo. Please feel free to share with us your concepts of what, where, etc, that UFOs might be. Also include your reasons for thinking so if you would. It's a very interesting subject that has been around for a very long time now, but now the interested parties are able to communicate, thanks to ParaNet and like echos. ...Bryon -- Bryon Smith - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bryon.Smith@p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gmz@well.sf.ca.us (Gerry Zeitlin) Subject: Mars investigation chronology Date: 28 Jan 90 10:50:48 GMT Since there has been some discussion of the Mars anomalies lately, I'd like to send you a copy of Dan Drasin's chronology of the independent Mars investigation. It will follow in a separate message. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- gerry zeitlin {apple|pacbell|hplabs|ucbvax}!well!gmz -------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gmz@well.sf.ca.us (Gerry Zeitlin) Subject: MARS INVESTIGATION CHRONOLOGY (fwd) Date: 28 Jan 90 10:52:51 GMT Forwarded message: -+From ddrasin Thu Jan 25 13:43:15 1990 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 90 13:43:07 pst >From: ddrasin (Dan Drasin) Message-Id: <9001252143.AA12214@well.sf.ca.us-+ To: gmz Subject: MARS INVESTIGATION CHRONOLOGY A VERY BRIEF CHRONOLOGY OF THE INDEPENDENT MARS INVESTIGATION 1976 Viking-1, orbiting over the Cydonia region of Mars, transmits frame 35A72 to JPL. The first tiny, high-contrast print shows a mile-long face-like mesa. Though Viking's mandate includes a "search for any evidence of life on Mars, now or in the past" the Face is dismissed without investigation as an "oddity of light and shading" and filed away. Carl Sagan receives $50,000 NASA grant to search for signs of intelligence in Viking photos. He explicitly excludes any forms not resembling terrestrial urban geometry as well as any single structures larger than typical buildings on earth. His findings are negative. 1979 Vincent DiPietro and Gregory Molenaar, imaging engineers under contract to NASA'S Goddard Space Flight Center on another project, stumble on the Face in the National Space Science Data Center archives. Skeptical but intrigued, they independently develop an advanced algorithm for enhancement of the Viking data tapes, and produce the first "cleaned up" version of frame 35A72, which reveals the Face as essentially symmetrical, and possessing specific, recognizable, detailed facial features qualitatively unlike those of typical "great stone faces" and similar illusions. These include folds and horizontal stripes on its "headpiece" or "helmet," an eye socket, eyeball and pupil, nose and mouth. The facial proportions are those of early man. DiPietro and Molenaar (D&M) approach NASA for other frames of the area taken at different sun angles, to better verify the actual 3-dimensional shape of the Face. NASA claims that when the area was photographed "a few hours later," the face had "disappeared"... and that no other frames had ever been taken of the area. D&M become suspicious, since "a few hours later" was night time at Cydonia, and besides, Viking-1 was in a 24-hour elliptical orbit and couldn't have photographed Cydonia "a few hours later." So they search through tens of thousands of frames in the NSSDC files and discover a misfiled frame, 70A13, taken at a higher sun-angle. Their digital processing confirms the facial features and also reveals an odd pyramid-like structure about ten miles southwest of the Face. 1980 DiPietro and Molenaar publish their findings and conclusions (essentially, that the evidence is provocative and warrants further investigation) and are stonewalled by the planetary science community. 1983 Science writer Richard C. Hoagland (who co-conceived the famous "Earth's calling-card" plaque carried aboard Pioneer 10) approaches D&M about their digital imaging techniques, and is introduced to the Face. Hoagland is also skeptical-but-fascinated. He takes the position that "the likelihood of its being real is small, but the possible consequences of its being real are great, so reason dictates further investigation." Hoagland notices some features D&M missed, and seeks additional, corroborative evidence. He asks "if the Face is real, was it meant to be seen from the ground as well as from above?" ... and hence, "where would one stand to get the best view of the Face." This leads him to a group of objects about 6 miles to the southwest which includes a "fortress-like" structure having two straight walls and an apparent interior space. The entire grouping has well-defined boundaries that seem to parallel the axes of the face. For convenience, he christens this area "The City." He then discovers what appears to be a "marker" at the City's exact lateral center that looks like a target or cross-hairs. He dubs this the "City Square" and notices that a hypothetical observer standing at this point would see: a) the best possible profile view of the Face, and b) the Summer solstice sunrise, beyond the Face. Since Mars' axis wobbles over a million-year cycle, the solstice sunrise would have been seen directly over the eyes of the Face about 1/2 million BC. On the horizon beyond the Face, Hoagland discovers a very curious and highly anomalous "cliff" or wall, perched on the edge of a massive impact crater, that seems to have at least a half-dozen characteristics suggesting a non-natural origin, and multiple alignments apparently linking it to other anomalous structures in the region. He also obtains low-contrast reproductions of the "pyramid" and determines that it has not four sides but five, mimicking the form of a human figure with outstretched arms. It is located on a straight line extended from the "Fortress" wall, and its own "spine, " or major axis, points precisely at the Face. Hogland labels this structure the "D&M Pyramid," after its original discoverers. Hoagland decides to pursue the matter further, and calls upon anthropologist Randolfo Pozos, who organizes a computer-linked multidisciplinary investigation team from scientists at Sandia Labs, SRI International, Goddard Spaceflight Center and elsewhere. 1984 After more than six months of research and dialogue the team presents its findings at the "Case for Mars" conference at the University of Colorado at Boulder. Their paper echoes D&M's conclusions: "Provocative and deserves further investigation." Result: The team is again stonewalled by the planetary science community, who argue that "humanoid life could not have evolved on Mars" -- though the team had taken pains to argue precisely the same point, and had limited its speculation to colonization scenarios -- partly because the scale and shape of many of the Martian structures (juxtaposed with the inhospitable Martian environment) suggested the possiblity of large, enclosed living centers reminiscent of architect Paolo Soleri's "arcology" concept. Dr. C. West Churchman, a Nobel prize nominee considered to be the "father of systems science," now proposes that the Independent Mars Investigation be based at, and sanctioned by, the University of California at Berkeley. Shortly thereafter, the Wall Street Journal is given a detailed briefing on the Martian anomalies but publishes a radically disinformative front-page article that triggers a series of media attacks on the investigation. As a result, prospective private funding evaporates, and the University of California retracts its red carpet. Meanwhile, in a feature article in SOVIET LIFE magazine, the Russians reveal their own fascination with the Martian "sphinx" and "pyramids." Correspondence between the Independent Investigation and Soviet investigators begins. As the team becomes more familiar with the Martian landscape, new anomalies are noticed: Extensive damage previously observed on one side of the D&M Pyramid appears to be connected with a large, bottomless crater nearby (natural craters have *visible* bottoms) suggesting explosive penetration. Improved photographs show an open rectangular "scar" in the Pyramid's side revealing what appears to be a "cellular" internal structure. The "Cliff" structure, when viewed from critical points in the complex, takes on a distinctly facial appearance. Its features include two eyes, symmetrical cheekbones, nose, mouth, teeth and chin. The ratio of distances between the western edge of the City, the City Square, the eastern edges of the City and Face, and the ridgeline of the Cliff, is observed to be 1:2:4:8. The objects at Cydonia appear increasingly to form an intelligently-designed complex linked by various geometric and astronomical alignments. The Mars Investigation now includes consultants in computer imaging, physics, systems science, anthropology, astronomy, photographic analysis, electronic communications, art and art history, architecture and theology. Hoagland observes that the stripes on the "helmet" of the face bear an uncanny resemblance to those of the Egyptian Pharaohs; dialogue among the team reveals that "Cairo" is a western transliteration of "El Kahira," which, in Arabic, mean "Mars." Dr. Mark J. Carlotto, of The Analytic Sciences Corporation in Reading, MA (a major Govt. satellite imaging contractor) begins his own private investigation of the Viking photos. His state-of-the-art imaging technology reveals new levels of detail, including what appear to be teeth in the mouth of the Face. Carlotto produces three-dimensional digital simulations of the Face and other features at Cydonia. Hoagland discovers another anomalous pyramid elsewhere in the Cydonia region. The mile-square so-called "Crater pyramid" sits undamaged astride the rim of a 100-megaton-equivalent impact crater. It is the tallest object within a hundred kilometers. An unnaturally rectilinear network of furrows (suggesting perhaps a "mining operation") can be seen tangent to the bowl of the adjacent crater. Curiously, NASA had *pre-programmed* the Viking orbiter (since the speed-of-light radio transmission delay precludes real-time control) to take a unique series of frames of this object, though officially it denies any interest in the structure. [The question remains: How did they know it was there, and why did they deviate from normal procedures to photograph it?] 1986 Anthropologist Dr.Randolfo Pozos publishes his book THE FACE ON MARS which spotlights the philosophical and anthropological aspects of the mystery, and asks some probing questions about how contemporary science handles anomalies in general. 1987 Richard Hoagland's book, *THE MONUMENTS OF MARS; A City on the Edge of Forever*, is published. 1988 Dr. Carlotto publishes an exhaustive paper about his early work on the Viking photos in a leading scientific journal, *Applied Optics*. He then applies spy-sat fractal analysis to the Cydonia photographs; the process singles out the Face and the City as the "least natural" objects in the region. Dr. Carlotto proposes extending the SETI paradigm to the examination of anomalous objects on planetary surfaces. He suggests fractal analysis as the basis for an automated system to scan the 60,000 remaining Viking photos, as well as forthcoming data from planetary missions, for evidence of intelligence. Erol Torun, a geographer and geomorphologist at the U.S. Defense Mapping Agency, reads Hoagland's book and takes issue with Hoagland's claims of geometric and mathematical alignments. Torun then makes his own independent measurements, using only universal ratios independent of any particular number system. Torun not only confirms Hoagland's observations but discovers that the D&M Pyramid contains over twenty-eight significant angles, angle ratios and trigonometric functions, including fourteen significant relationships between the square root of five and the universal constants e and pi; seven instances of redundancy of the number three; and four significant reciprocal relationships. Torun describes the D&M's geometry as "astonishingly complex, precise and logical." Torun performs a thorough geomorphological analysis of the D&M Pyramid and concludes that its form cannot reasonably be attributed to known natural forces. He states that "This object's 5-sided shape and bilateral symmetry are unlike those of any landform seen to date in this solar system.... This degree of mathematical precision does not occur in nature.... The likelihood that the objects in Cydonia are there because of natural forces is next to zero." Hoagland confirms that all the anglular relationships found by Torun in the D&M Pyramid are precisely echoed in the relationships among the objects in the Cydonia complex as a whole. Merton Davies, planetary geographer at the RAND corporation confirms that the D&M Pyramid sits astride north latitude 40.87 degrees, whose tangent equals e/pi, a value discovered repeatedly by Torun in the angles of the object itself. Hoagland and Torun calculate that if the chance of a given "coincidence" at Cydonia is multiplied by the chance of the *next* coincidence, and so on, the net chance of a completely natural origin for this complex is less than one in several trillion. In December, Hoagland is invited by the Goddard Space Flight Center's Engineering Colloquium Committee to present the investigation's latest findings. The NASA administration attempts unsuccessfully to cancel this session, and assembles a Mars-related press conference at the same hour, at a different location. The presentation by Hoagland, Carlotto and Torun is enthusiastically received by NASA staff and repudiated by the Agency's administrators. 1989 Hoagland's book, despite almost no formal advertising, goes into its seventh printing. Hoagland addresses the National Press Club in Washington, DC. James Falvo, an educator at Minnesota's St. Olaf college and a doctoral candidate at the University of Nebraska, writes his dissertation on the impact of allowing this body of Mars resarch to be taught in the classroom. Falvo characterizes this situation as another potential "Scopes trial." He points out that NASA's unmanned *Mars Observer* vehicle, carrying a high-resolution camera and scheduled for launch in the early 1990's, could settle the Mars issue once and for all; however its mission priorities are determined by a closed group of planetary scientists, and NASA still holds the position that the Face is merely an isolated, eroded hill. Falvo asks "How can theories be tested if the testers won't test them?" Prof. James Strange, an archaeologist and Dean at the University of South Florida, begins to lay the groundwork for archeological protocols which could be implemented on eventual manned missions to Mars. Richard Hoagland is invited by the Soviet newspaper *Pravda* to write a guest editorial about the Mars investigation. Dr. Brian O'Leary (who trained as a Mars-bound scientist-astronaut until NASA abandoned its original manned Mars program in 1968) meets with Soviet and Japanese representatives to propose joint manned Mars missions using the Martian moon Phobos as a staging area. This approach (by contrast with recent U.S. proposals) would evidently cost less than missions to and from our own moon, due to Phobos' negligible gravity. O'Leary views the exploration of the Martian anomalies as possibly the "greatest adventure of our time." Hoagland and Torun announce that they have begun to decode the "mathematical message of Cydonia" which hinges on the redundancy of e/pi and e/sqrt 5 observed in the D&M Pyramid and elsewhere. Through a series of equations and geometric models, they are led to discover certain planetary energy phenomena. For example, that the preponderance of major planetary "energy centers" (areas of persisitent volcanic and atmospheric activity) appear at about 19.5 degrees of latitude in the northern magnetic hemisphere. This includes Earth's Hawaiian Islands, the largest volcanoes on Mars, Venus and the Jovian moon Io, and the mean latitudes of the Great Red Spots on Jupiter and Neptune, and of sunspots. Hoagland and Torun predict successfully that the north magnetic pole of Neptune will turn out to be in the same hemisphere as its own Red Spot. They have also predicted the *magnitude* of Neptune's magnetic field, on the basis of the "Cydonia equations," which, they claim, may also describe heretofore unknown relationships among gravity, electromagnetism and atmospheric phenomena. Rep. Robert A. Roe (D-NJ), chairman of the House Science, Space and Technology committee requests that Hoagland's organization (The "Mars Mission") prepare a list of recommendations on legitimizing and officially implementing the next phases of research into the Martian anomalies. Later, Roe formally directs NASA to photograph the Face and its surroundings during its unmanned 1992 Mars Observer mission. ... Here is a very rough ASCII-graphics map showing approximate relationships of the structures at Cydonia. 0 1 2 4 8 (proportional | | | | | units) . . +--a--|---\-+ . . | b\| . . . to +--+ + +--+ . . . . (d). . . . . . . . . |///// -------+ solstice | c | . . e |/////. . sunrise +-----+ . . . . . . . . . crater . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (f) (g) W N \ / (approx.) / \ S E a) Outline of the "City," a grouping of enigmatic landforms that appears out-of-character on the landscape. b) The "Fortress" - A triangular structure with thick walls enclosing an interior space. Sight southeast directly along its easternmost wall and you'll see the center of the "D&M Pyramid" at "f." c) The "City Square", a cross-hairs-shaped structure at the exact lateral center of the "City" d) The "Face on Mars," about 1 mile from crown to chin. The vertical axis of the Face is parallel to the orientation of the City. A half-million years ago, an observer at the City Square would have seen the Summer Solstice sunrise directly over the eyes of the Face. e) The "Cliff," which appears on the outside edge of the splash "apron" of a large impact crater. From the top of the City Square structures, an observer would see the Cliff forming a backdrop precisely behind the Face, as if to block out the jagged edge of the crater. The Cliff must have post-dated the crater because it suffered no damage from the cratering blast and because there seems to be a large area behind it where the ejecta material appears to have been excavated for the material to build it. There is a winding "access road" that leads up from behind the Cliff to its north end, loops around to the south end, then hairpin-turns back up to the north. Details on the Cliff's surface give it an uncannily face-like appearance when viewed from the southwest at about 20 degrees off the ground. f) The "D&M Pyramid," named for its discoverers, DiPietro and Molenaar. The structure is five-sided, and shaped like a human figure with outstretched arms (same proportions as DaVinci's Man in the Squared Circle) Its head points directly at the Face, about 10 miles to the northeast. Its left arm points directly at the City Square. It's right arm points directly at the center of the Tholus g) The "Tholus" or "Mound." A shallow concentric cone-shaped hill with peripheral ditch in a form virtually identical to the classic "burial mound" built by many prehistoric terrestrial cultures. The D&M Pyramid, Tholus and Cliff form a right triangle. ... For further background: THE MONUMENTS OF MARS (1989), an informative, very up-to-date 60-minute audio cassette production, with enclosed poster of the digitally-processed Viking photos, from Enhanced Audio Systems, 415-652-4009. THE MONUMENTS OF MARS; A CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER (1987), the excruciatingly detailed book by Richard C. Hoagland, published by North Atlantic Books. THE FACE ON MARS (1986), the epistemological book by anthropologist Dr. Randolfo Pozos, published by Chicago Review Press. UNUSUAL MARTIAN SURFACE FEATURES (1979, updated), the original publication by Vincent DiPietro and Gregory Molenaar, who initially re-discovered the Martian Face buried in NASA's archives, published by Mars Research, P.O. Box 284, Glenn Dale, MD 20769. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- gerry zeitlin {apple|pacbell|hplabs|ucbvax}!well!gmz -------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Don.Allen Subject: Re: Lazar -- Los Alamos Article Conclusion Date: 27 Jan 90 05:23:00 GMT JD>That whole article reminded me of Joe Newman and his stories. It also sounded a lot like the style of the S-4 tales. I may have misread the story, but I got the impression that Lazar never actually drove the car under jet power while the newsmen were there, only that he fired up the "jet". In the absence of any info on what model honda this was, and factoring in what honda might have been selling in 1982, his claims that he had the thing up to 135 mph with essentially no modifications to the car, leave me just a tad skeptical. Having driven a car that was at least somewhat designed and modified for high speed to a speed of 137 mph, I find the idea of driving an unmodified 82 or earlier honda, and one powered by a jet engine, at that speed, real difficult to swallow. I think Lazar's main proficiency is in the area of spinning tall tales. @ I drive a 1982 Honda Civic (2 door) Hatchback. It's got 156,000 miles on it and still in great shape. Runs like a top. I just can't imagine a jet engine in the rear of it though.. Let's suppose in 1982,he put it into an Accord..still a pretty light chassis but I DO recall that Lazar said he modified the bottom of the car with additional support. He DID say that he had a Firewall installed as well. He did mention that he had to be careful and hold his speed down or the car would be "airborne". But like you....I have a hard time just *imagining* a *honda* with a jet engine in it..A BIGGER car,yes,I could well see it. (shaking head at thought of a civic hitting Mach 3 on the way to Daytona Beach) Lazar reminds me of "Doogie Howser"..here's this guy who has some smarts and is rather YOUNG to have the credentials he claims to have. He certainly sounds like he's got something on the ball,but it does make you wonder why HE would be picked to work as a replacement scientist..(I would call it a technician). His comments are routinely dissected here. The disclosure about the properties of 115,elements of his past employment,etc need more clarification here. This seems to be the major "rub". He (Lazar) hasn't helped his own credibility by omitting details of these things. Things I would consider good hard evidence: ANY kind of documentation on 115 (weight,properties,etc) Substansial documentation of past employment Supporting testimony of fellow workers at Area51. -- Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Allen@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f7.n1030.z9.FIDONET.ORG!Vladimir.Godic. Subject: The Nullabor Date: 28 Jan 90 05:32:00 GMT > > Hi Vlad: > Nice to be chatting to you at last through ParaNet. I > would like to bring your attention to the file OZTRAIN.AUS > uploaded to my system by David Galea. You will see that it > refers to a sighting near Zanthus in WA. There is a comment > that three trains many kilometres apart reported the same thing > at the same time that beong 21:00 hrs WST. Unfortunately we haven't got much info. on the OZTRAIN at the moment. > I now refer to UFORA89055 where the Hennessy's reported a UFO at > 22:30 hrs CST. I note that in September the nation is on > standard time and that CST it 1 1/2 hrs ahead of WST. That > makes the Hennesey's report occur at the same time as the Train > Drivers. It would also put the distance very much greater over > 100s of kilometres. As the railway official said,"Whats going > on". > > Have you any update on these reports. I'll get back to you as soon as I get more info. Cheers, Vlad > Bob..... > > --- FD 2.00 > * Origin: ParaNet OMEGA-ALPHA(sm) - Australia (9:1030/0) -- Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Vladimir.Godic.@f7.n1030.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f7.n1030.z9.FIDONET.ORG!Vladimir.Godic. Subject: The Nullabor Date: 28 Jan 90 05:38:00 GMT > > Hi Vlad: > Nice to be chatting to you at last through ParaNet. I > would like to bring your attention to the file OZTRAIN.AUS > uploaded to my system by David Galea. You will see that it > refers to a sighting near Zanthus in WA. There is a comment > that three trains many kilometres apart reported the same thing > at the same time that beong 21:00 hrs WST. > > I now refer to UFORA89055 where the Hennessy's reported a UFO at > 22:30 hrs CST. I note that in September the nation is on > standard time and that CST it 1 1/2 hrs ahead of WST. That > makes the Hennesey's report occur at the same time as the Train > Drivers. It would also put the distance very much greater over > 100s of kilometres. As the railway official said,"Whats going > on". > > Have you any update on these reports. > I'll get back to you as soon as I find more about the OZTRAIN. Cheers, Vlad > Bob..... > > --- FD 2.00 > * Origin: ParaNet OMEGA-ALPHA(sm) - Australia (9:1030/0) -- Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Vladimir.Godic.@f7.n1030.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.) Subject: Skeptics/Science/WR Date: 28 Jan 90 18:18:29 GMT A couple of comments on skepticism and science: I have to dissent from Keith's opinion that skepticism is form of mental illness. While we all ocasionlly get impatient and defensive when our dearly cherished ideas are challenged (as I am now), castigating skeptics is like killing the messengers who bring bad news. The major reason why working scientists are skeptical of new ideas is that most "new ideas are wrong, many experiments simply don't work. What is assumed is not that the investigator is lying, because outright fraud is quite rare, but rather that the investigator has leapt to premature conclusions. Good examples are "Polywater" where careful chemical work showed that the new phases were not polymers of water, but rather solutions of silica, and "Cold Fusion," which may be evidence for some unusual chemistry, but probably not nuclear reactions. Each year there are 1 or 2 highly publicized incidents of scientific fraud, usually at some East Coast Medical school, but actually the rate is very low compared to the several hundred thousand papers published each year by US scientists. What is worrisome is the amount of sloppy science that is published, of premature results that are publicized. Skepticism is truly merited when something is published outside of reviewed journals. Even then, some garbage gets out, i.e.,the recent French work on the effects of highly diluted antibodies, and the earlier SRI studies on remote viewing, both published in the highly respected and selective journal, NATURE. Pons and Fleischman should have filed for the patents, submitted detailed papers to journals, waited until they were accepted with the necessary revisions, then held their news conference. Doing PR first triggers skepticism and should. Even so, their announcement caused a frenzy of reseach around the world and something may still come of it, though the effect they claim to have discovered was in fact already known, albeit not widely. Isaac Asimov has estimated that only 1 in 50 new heterodox ideas that are publicized is ever found to hve merit; obviously a much larger number are shot down before ever getting outside the lab. There is no more toughening experience for a young grad student than presenting one's hard earned data at the weekly lab seminar and having one's fellow students pick it apart. Orals are a breeze after rehearsing them before one's peers. Granting agencies tned to support only mainstream work because research money is chronically scarce; at the moment only 10-12% of proposals are funded. The bulk of the money goes to scientists with proven track records because the granting agencies are themselves responsible to Congress. No one wants to have his/her decisions ridiculed by such pillars of the liberal establishment as Senator Proximire or conservative watchdogs like Jesse Helms. Congress very nearly demanded an item veto over individual grants a few years ago. We would all like to be given unlimited research money and left alone, but that isn't going to happen in a democratic society, and shouldn't. One mechanism by which innovative ideas do get explored is "bootlegging and bootstrapping." Only apply for funds to do research that has been essentially completed in order to guarantee publications. Use the money for the current project to start the next one. Follow up your off the wall ideas on your own time and only announce them only when convincing evidence has been accumulated. Some companies allow their research personnel to devote up to 20% of their time on personal research projects; Bell Labs used to give complete freedom to its investigators, though it tended to promote people faster if they worked on company projects. Computer Music as well as the transisistor were invented there. This policy may have changed now that the "trust-busters" in the government broke up AT&T in hopes that its computer division could do to IBM what a generation of government lawyers failed to do, destroy American technological leadership. So far they've done in the phone system. As for Wilhelm Reich, the story is a little more complex than often supposed. He was convicted of violating laws on the insterstate shipment of unlicensed medical devices and while some copies of his books were seized, they were never banned and in fact some are still in print. Reich died of a heart attack while serving a sentence in a federal prison. Pathetically, he thought that he was being persecuted by communists in the FDA and that President Eisenhower was going to rescue him. Reich and the communists had a long-standing animosity, as he had been expelled from the party in Europe, purportedly because his sexual theories disprupted party business. The Nazis chased him out of Germany because he denounced them as "orgastically impotent sadists." Tact wasn't his strong point. There has never been any evidence for the reality of "Orgone Engergy," his microbiological work on "bions" was extremely amateurish, and his theory that cancer, neuroses, and other assorted ills were due to lack of high-quality sex is unsupported. Masturbation therapy didn't cure cancer, though the patients may have died happier. I recommend the movie, "WR, Mysteries of the Organism," by a Jugoslav film maker, as an amusing introduction to WR's bizarre world. It has some wonderful scenes of a party worker exhorting workers to employ his theories. From my own experience, I know that Reich's early work, "Character Analysis," was still used by academic psychiatrists in the 1960's but his other books, "Cancer Biopathy" and "The Function of the Orgasm," were considered worthless by most medical people. On the other hand I read them in the Stanford U medical library, so they were far from unavailable. Enough of the soapbox----John -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Subject: Re: Mars Face Date: 28 Jan 90 16:01:00 GMT > Gene- > Why would the discovery that the face on mars is an artifact > require us to rethink our science?? It may make *some* religous > folks rethink there religions, but I doubt it would even have much > effect on that aspect of life. Religious folk are so used to > dealing with fuzzy thinking that it will be extremely easy for > them to adapt, after all, the bible did say something about god > having other worlds to care for; the religious folks will dig that > part out and suddenly find that they "knew" we weren't alone all > along. Jim, this is exactly the point I try to make when arguing about the ET hypothesis in general. It doesn't require ANY rewriting of the science texts. It may, if actual contact is made, require the writing of ADDITIONAL science texts, to cover the discoveries precipitated by such contact. In other words, it won't necessarily mean our science is wrong, just not fully developed. (It will, however, mean that a lot of our scienTISTS are wrong). This is why I reject the appelation of "pseudo-science" as applied to UFOs. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f20.n3607.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Gregg.Pasterick Subject: Re: A New Book Date: 28 Jan 90 21:03:00 GMT Yeah! That's the one. I did read it over the past few days, and it was interesting. His ultimate 'answer'/theory strikes me as being as far-fetched yet as acceptable as all the rest. However, he reports on about 1/2 dozen CE-3K experiences, some of which we all know about, a few which are covered for the first time. One in particular is a rather striking case as the abductee's life just plummets afterward. He tells us why, but I'll know spoil it for you. It's not the best of the many UFOs books that I've read, but it is by no means something you should ignore if you are interested the UFO situation......particularly Third Kind Encounters. Gregg -- Gregg Pasterick - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Gregg.Pasterick@f20.n3607.z1.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************