Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 142 Friday, February 2nd 1990 Today's Topics: Re: Mysterious fireballs face Re: Skeptics Re: Mysterious Fireballs QM Re: Mars Face New Affiliate Skeptics Re: Thoughts for Bryon Re: Mj-12,Lazar,Disinformation Re: Replies Re: Lazar and the Planet of the Sols Current Affair Upcoming Expose (?) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f20.n3607.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jerry.Woody Subject: Re: Mysterious fireballs Date: 1 Feb 90 02:00:00 GMT ->In followup to the Fireballs article, I wanted to relate an Hello Michael; Back in August of 1989 I filed a MUFON report of a fireball similar if not identical to the fireball in your previous article. It was travelling at an app. 95-100 degree angle and very low to the ground. It was white and green. It was moving very slow [for a meteorite, if that is what it was] and upon disinigration(?) red material was observed falling from it.. some of which were "structured" (right angle pieces, straight pieces, etc.) and not random. The object was also reported to a Birmingham radio station by numerous people in that city. I don't know if any follow up was done or if it was dismissed as a meteor. Jerry. -- Jerry Woody - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jerry.Woody@f20.n3607.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mailrus!uunet!crdos1.crd.ge.com!davidsen Subject: face Date: 1 Feb 90 17:34:00 GMT When I start getting personal attacks I know I'm getting close to finding that something is fishy. Several people claim to have seen "unretouched photos" of the face. There is no such thing. The photos are made by using a computer to convert the binary pixel values to grey scales. The table lookup which does this controls what you can and can't see in the "unretouched photo." Many pictures have a translation bar on the side, which shows the conversion used. In a linear conversion the bar is white on one end, black on the other, and *linearly* increasing shades of grey from white end to black end. The photo I saw did not have this bar. When the pictures first became well known, someone had the actual digitized data available for ftp. Unfortunately I didn't keep a copy after I looked at it. If anyone has a copy of the data for either or both pictures please let me know. The viewer only took me a few hours to write, and I can do that again. When the translation table was adjusted to have some values I saw a face (more or less). When the table was set for linear translation I saw a pile of rock, or butte, or mesa, or whatever. If, by any chance, the translation bar does not go from light on one end to dark at the other, but has a light-dark-light or vice-versa sequence, then some of the light features are being made to look darker than other features which reflect less light. This is not proof that anyone is trying to fake something, but usually indicates that the photo is not the same thing you would see with the naked eye in the same place. If I get a source for the raw data I'll say more, and I am writing to the Mars Project to see if they can supply it, otherwise I've said what I intended, and I must be right, since I am getting mail from some people which says "we are not cooking the data" and others which says "JPL is not doing a coverup." That must mean I'm in the middle. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f102.n268.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Paul.Faeder Subject: Re: Skeptics Date: 1 Feb 90 05:14:31 GMT In an article of <28 Jan 90 18:18:29 GMT>, chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.) writes: >I'd like to hear how you respond to the leatest findings in the quantum >theory area. > >In short, the experiment proved that one of the following is true: > >a. Either objective reality does not exist and it is meaningless for us >to speak of things or objects as having any reality above and beyond the >mind of the observer; > >b. or, faster-than-light communication with the future and the past is >possible. Can you elaborate on this? I have never heard of this, but then again I'm not a scientist. -- Paul Faeder - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Paul.Faeder@p0.f102.n268.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin Subject: Re: Mysterious Fireballs Date: 1 Feb 90 17:37:00 GMT In a message to Michael Corbin <01-31-90 19:00> Jerry Woody wrote: > Back in August of 1989 I filed a MUFON report of a fireball > similar if not identical to the fireball in your previous > article. It was travelling at an app. 95-100 degree angle > and very low to the ground. It was white and green. I went back and re-read that article just posted on the fireball over the Eastern coast and find that it appears to be strange, however I cannot find where it might not indicate a meteorite. I must admit that what I saw that December evening was unusual, however I am not an expert on meteorites. I was hoping that someone here would be able to give us information as to why meteorites and their colors might indicate something more unusual than just a meteorite. I noticed Jim Speiser's message about green fireballs, however as I recall from the Project Twinkle material, LaPaz felt that green fireballs was just not normal for a meteor. Also, if these are meteorites, why are they becoming so prominent all of a sudden? There have been literally scores of reports of these lately.s Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.) Subject: QM Date: 1 Feb 90 19:55:02 GMT Gene: Thanks for the kind words. I would agree with virtually everything you said in your message. However, I would like to qualify your statement about the unknowability of ultimate reality or reality separate from the observer. This is, of course, a very controversial point among physicists, but the consensus is that while reality may have a subjective and indeterminate component, it is not wholly arbitrary. There is really is "something" out there, even if different observers perceive it differently. We don't create it in any strong sense. On the question of higher dimensions of space, most modern theoretical work descends from Klein and Kaluza's pre-war attempts to unify EM and gravity by assuming a warped space in 5 or 6 dimensions to geometricize EM, in analogy to Einstein's geometrization of Gravity in General Relativity. More recent work with superstrings (distinct from Cosmic strings) employs spaces of 10 or even 26 dimensions to accomodate the Strong Nuclear force. some of these dimensions are physical, but some appear to be merely mathematical formalisms as I understand it. All but four of the physical dimensions "compactified" while the four of our space-time continuum expanded right after the Big Bang. Thus we live in a space with 4 dimensions, either flat or curved slightly negatively, and 6 or more curved strongly positively with a radius of 10-33 cms (more or less). Hence the extra dimensions are nearly unobservable and space appears to have just the usual 4 dimensions (3 spatial and 1 temporal). I know of one experiment to detect the side effects of such extra dimensions that was negative. I enjoyed "Gravitation" by Kip Thorne, A. A. Wheeler, and Meisner. The heavy math is in boxes, so the text is readable. I found "The Tao of Physics" rather unsatisifying--it seemed to oversimplify both the physics and the philosophy and trivialize both. I find speculations like Sheldrake's Morphogenetic fields, and Lyall Watson's Hundredth Monkey effect interesting SF, except that similar ideas were described in the 40's and 50's. They are essentially pseudoscience. Sheldrake's theories are weakly testable, but have not been confirmed. I have his book, but just can't seem to get into it; in this respect it's rather like Jeremy Rifkin's "Algeny." Neither the physical nor biological world seems to work his way, though I suppose on could conceive of a universe where Lamackian theories would hold (they do culturally). The language learning tests ignore the fact that there are lexical universals. It's been known for a long time that people can guess new vocabularies better than chance. Turkish is just possibly very distantly related to English by descent from a proto-language called Nostratic. Silicon doesn't crystallize any faster despite the ton quantities made in the semiconductor industry. As for Watson, ther never was any effect to begin with. Not only were the monkey colonies in contact, but no sudden behavioral change was noted by the original Japanese investigators. --john -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) Subject: Re: Mars Face Date: 2 Feb 90 00:03:37 GMT -+From: paranet!p0.f2.n1030.z9.FIDONET.ORG!John.Daly -+Subject: Re: Mars Face -+ -+ The Face on Mars. -+ I saw the photos and read the book `The Face on Mars'. -+ The author admitted that non-standard imaging techniques were used in -+ the computer enhancement. This leads me to suspect that either the -+ photos are forged, or that the imaging techniques were changed -+ frequently until the feature looked as human as possible. A case of -+ auto-suggestion in other words. Since NASA's standard techniques gave -+ us such sharp pictures of tHe Martian surface, I cannot see why this -+ standard technique was deviated from in this instance, if not to make -+ the face more `face-like' and the pyramids more `pyramid-like'. Okay, once more. John, the original photos are seen by the people at JPL do not need enhancement to see the Face nor the pyramids. The photos I have are taken from the Viking digital tape. The only computer processing done was to convert the digital data into a photograph. The hits acquired during transmission aren't even corrected for. I have shown those photos around to a wide variety of people of all walks of life and educational levels. Their responses are interesting because they can't believe what they are seeing--a Face on Mars. The "sharp pictures" bit is a bit of a red-herring. The camera system used by Viking to photograph Mars was not one of the spy-quality high resolution models. The photos are of a good quality. Even so, they need some massaging and enhancement to bring out details. The people at JPL and NASA (and other places that study the photos from space) use a variety of computer enhancement techniques to bring out details. For example, they use "false color imaging" to bring out details on some planets. Does this mean that we can't trust the information obtained in those images? The standard technique that you refer to is not "standard" in the sense that you seem to imply. The fact is that all of the photos that come back from the various unmanned space missions must be processed and the images enhanced by computer to clear them up. So to say non-standard as if the Mars Project researchers were doing something to create these images is both wrong and extremely misleading. And I can assure you that if such was the case, Sagan, et al, would have publicized this a long time ago, which would have ended the Mars Project. Yet no charge has ever been raised by Sagan and others who resist the Mars objects. Their arguments against the objects are founded more on the grounds of the objects being the result of erosion and other geological factors. But even these arguments are getting a bit thin and thread bare. The facts are, John, that until we get better data from Mars, we won't have a real resolution to this matter. Such data may be forthcoming in this decade. Time will tell. -+ Later in the book, the author drifted into pure pseudo-science with -+ references to absurdities like `harmonics of the speed of light' etc. -+ I think we've been had on this one. I grant you that this "harmonics of the speed of light" sounds a bit odd, but I haven't read this book. But I will try to obtain a copy and examine the context of this statement. However, to judge the objects based on one man's book is a bit like basing a judgement about elephants on the findings of six blind men. The same holds true for anything that we research, study, or examine. Enough for now, have a g'day, Mate, Gene -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin Subject: New Affiliate Date: 1 Feb 90 22:54:00 GMT Please welcome a new ParaNet affiliate: ParaNet ALPHA-ETA(sm) Jerry Seward Rochester, New York 716-436-2759 Jerry is involved with a group called The Rochester UFO Study Group. On behalf of the ParaNet family, welcome aboard! Please take a moment and introduce yourself. Michael Corbin Administrator -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) Subject: Skeptics Date: 2 Feb 90 02:18:45 GMT -+From: paranet!f2.n1030.z9.FIDONET.ORG!John.Daly -+Subject: Skeptomania is cool -+ -+ -+ I am one of your skeptics, as I have frequently posted messages -+ refuting the current Greenhouse and Ozone scares. In doing so, I am -+ not removing your right to free speech, but simply asserting my own. -+ I feel your approach is the totalitarian one where any fringe theory -+ should be given full airing, but any skeptical responses should be -+ suppressed. Free speech cuts both ways, freedom for you to -+ pronounce any theory you like, and freedom fOr me to express -+ skepticism about it. That's democracy - at least that's how we -+ practice democracy here. Let's see. This message comes from a person calling himself John Daly and claims to come from Tasmania. Well, how do we know this. Maybe this person isn't really named John Daly. Maybe this person doesn't even exist. That's it, he's a figment of imagination. The byproduct of marsh gas. ;-) 8-) 8-) John, I don't disagree with maintaining a certain amount of skepticism. But as I've already said, skepticism for skepticism's sake is garbage. I doesn't take any great mental effort to treat new ideas, concepts, hypotheses, etc., as if they are completely wrong and originated either from the abuse of drugs or alcohol--or maybe sleep deprivation. Why not, instead, look for the germ of truth? This in no way inhibits your rights to free speech, does it? But it might make the environment warmer for the cultivation of solutions. As for the Greenhouse effect, I probably tend to share your view. The current meterological models are not very good because our understanding of weather and climate isn't very good. There can't be much doubt that the so-called Greenhouse gases are increasing, but what that actually means is still anybody's guess. Personally, I'd rather err, if I'm going to err, on the side of caution and conservatism as reagards the Greenhouse effect. Yet, I don't think we need Draconian measures, at least not yet. As for the ozone layer depletion, I think the case is a bit better here. The data that I've seen seem to point to the fact that we have damaged our ozone layer. The questions for me are how bad is the damage and for how long will we have a problem? The amount of CFCs that have been pumped out seems to be a staggering amount. And I also understand that the CFC molecules aren't finished doing their nefarious job of mangling the ozone layer. However, if you have evidence to the contrary, I'd certainly be willing to look at it. BTW, are you really John Daly? ;-) Real skeptics want to know. 8-) The following is from a post by John Chalmers. -+ The first paper also reported finding protons -+ tritium or helium 3, helium 4, and probably Li in the gas. -+ John, what does this suggest to you? Regards, Gene -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bryon.Smith Subject: Re: Thoughts for Bryon Date: 1 Feb 90 17:32:00 GMT Good to hear from you again Gene, it's hard for me to get my messages on time sometimes because they come through addressed for "ALL" and I must go searching for them. Anytime a message comes in from one of the other FidoNet nodes it usually has my own name on it and I am able to get it as soon as I log onto the system. I wanted you to know that I had not gotten your message until just now, but am very interested in what you have to say. in> From: Gene Gross What information would you like on Melchizedek, Bryon? in> Maybe I can give in> you some information that you don't already have. I am trying to gather any information that might help indicate that we have had alien visitors even thousands of years ago, and I believe them to be here yet today. Any information you can get me that might help my research would be greatly appreciated. Melchizedek came out of "no where" and vanished back into "no where." Is this just because no one was able to keep track of him and make records of it, or is it because he didn't come from the Earth in the first place ? What information can we come up with that might help us better understand this situation. I would expect you would enjoy some of the messages now going through the ET echo as several others have joined in and are helping me find information that I am needing. If I addressed this message to you at the header would it come though ok to you on your end ? Or am I better off to do it this way ? in> Bryon, have you looked into ooparts? (ooparts==out of in> place artifacts) in> There are a rather large number of these ooparts that I in> would think that in> you could begin to draw some tentative conclusions. Also, in> what about in> the legends concerning ancient flying machines powered by in> mercury? Bill Clendenon of Biloxi, MS has done a massive amount of research into the design of the mercury saucer. He has a foot locker full of plans and information and has spent his entire life trying to find the answers to just that question. He believes he has a working plan but does not have anyone who can put it together for him. I have his address and phone number if you would like it. He says it will work, and that the symbols of the "snakes" and the "wings" that are used today as a medical symbol were actually the symbol of flight. Snakes meaning that coils of mercury (which is poison) were used in the design of the craft that flew (as such the wings are on the symbol to indicate flight). in> There are a number of legends that seem to speak of a very in> advanced in> earth race in the distant past. Could this be the start of in> a search for in> alien activity on earth, or evidence that this isn't the I was sent some information concerning this by Don Allen. It appears to me there is a great deal of history that was lost along those lines, but there is more there that needs to be dug up and looked into. ...Bryon -- Bryon Smith - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bryon.Smith@p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bryon.Smith Subject: Re: Mj-12,Lazar,Disinformation Date: 1 Feb 90 17:46:00 GMT In a message to All <01-24-90 23:05> David Blaker wrote: DB> Is all of the information from the above mentioned people a DB> GREAT disinformation project? A lot of questions and no definite DB> answers. DB> It would really be a shame if we accepted or ignored to DB> willingly somthing that might or might not be of great inportance to DB> the UFO research community. DB> Maybe this is what the government wants, DB> diversion,distraction,and confusion taking the attention off the truth. DB> Or maybe what the human mind won't accept the POSSIBLE TRUTH. DB> Hopefully time will procure the truth. DB> ALL COMMENTS WELCOMED!!!!! Sorry for taking so long to get around to reading in this message base, I am way behind. Perhaps you have come across something that is good to have pointed out. You state things which I recoginze as facts, it is a fact that we have more questions than answers, and are staying busy following false leads for the most part. The fact these things are taking place indicates there is something the government is trying to cover up. The fact they regard it as above top secret indicates they have something to "hot to handle" what ever that might be. Perhaps they aren't really sure what they got their hands on, but have just enough to know it's dangerous and beyond their ability to control. Who is to say what might happen if they should open up the files on these beings and tell the world what they know ? What would the aliens do ? ...Bryon -- Bryon Smith - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bryon.Smith@p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bryon.Smith Subject: Re: Replies Date: 1 Feb 90 18:10:00 GMT In a message to All <01-25-90 19:18> infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com wrote: Again, late in getting the mail... in> From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.) in> Bryon: Can you send me references to large human skeletons? I can try John. Our library here in Fort Smith is not what I would need to track down all the references. In (I believe) Ungers Bible Dict. page 419 it states that "Skeletons recovered in Palestine attest the fact that men as tall as Goliath once lived in that general reagon." Their conservative hight for Goliath was "over nine feet tall." Their references listed at the bottom of that section are as follows. Edward Young, Introduction to the O.T., 1949 S.R. Driver, Notes on the Hebrew text of the Books of Samuel, Oxford 1913 International Critical Commentary in.loc. Of course our conversation on this subject has been moved to the ET echo which I am not sure if you get it or not. Also, the messages do not get to me from here as well because they are not addressed to me via the system mailer. Sorry for being so long in getting around to these messages, I am certainly interested in your findings and information. If you find anything in regards to their references please let me know. Thank you. ...Bryon -- Bryon Smith - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bryon.Smith@p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Bryon.Smith Subject: Re: Lazar and the Planet of the Sols Date: 2 Feb 90 01:21:00 GMT In a message to All <01-27-90 23:17> George Lucas wrote: GL> There are at least two places on Earth where there are GL> Sols. GL> GL> Greeting a visitor entering the semi-circular driveway of GL> John Lear's Las Vegas house is a frontispiece ornately GL> embedded with "Palacio del Sol." GL> George, I am a little bit surprised that someone did not leave you a reply before now concerning your message. GL> And, from Robert Lazar's mouth comes "Sol 3," a term he GL> says he read in briefing papers at S-4, the alleged UFO GL> section of the Nevada Test Site. "Sol 3" is supposed to GL> refer to Earth since Earth is the third planet from the GL> Sun, just as the alien's home planet is called Reticulum 4 GL> because it is the fourth planet from the Binary-star GL> system, Zeta Reticuli II. It appears you have done some research in the field of UFOs & ET.s. Please forgive me, but your name, along with the "Close Encounter" scenario brings a few questions to my mind. Could you tell us a little bit about yourself and what has brought you into this field of research ? Thank you. ...Bryon -- Bryon Smith - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bryon.Smith@p0.f19.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jeff.Ballard Subject: Current Affair Upcoming Expose (?) Date: 2 Feb 90 01:22:00 GMT Well, we will soon all have the answer to the UFO phenomenon. PARANET can close up shop and all the investigators can find new hobbies. Why? Maury Pauvich is TIRED of UFO stories, and he will be getting to the bottom of it all next Tuesday (February 6th) on his program Current Affair. I am holding my breath in expectation! One good point, on tonight's (2-1) coverage of sightings in West Virginia and the possible connection to the Braxton County monster of long ago, at least the CA team used clips from more current Sci-Fi movies (in color) to illustrate the UFO portion of the story. The monster part was still represented by Lon Chaney, Jr.'s werewolf (black & white, but of course that is an old legend).BJB ;) Perhaps someone in the UFO community could offer Maury some assistance with his story...Mike, Don, Jim?? -- Jeff Ballard - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jeff.Ballard@p0.f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************