Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 206 Tuesday, April 17th 1990 Today's Topics: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter Re: Windshield Guy Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter Re: True.. Interesting Materials / Missing BBS Tesla Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter UFO Video Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter Re: True.. Klass vs Clark More info on a film ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Subject: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter Date: 14 Apr 90 05:37:00 GMT Not sure I buy your economic theory, Jim. If all the utilities workers were thrown out of work, it would take a helluva long adjustment period to retrain them for other jobs which just might not exist. As labor is a fixed quantity, so is the number of jobs available. The economic impact of the overnight destruction of an entire industry would be devastating. No, they couldn't just pick up jobs manufacturing modems and computers, because with the decrease in real personal income would come a corresponding decrease in demand for such costly durable goods. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Ray.Griffin Subject: Re: Windshield Guy Date: 14 Apr 90 15:42:00 GMT Yes, I do have his lawyer's name and Number. I will send it to you. If you have any information pertaining to me let me know. RG -- Ray Griffin - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Ray.Griffin@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter Date: 14 Apr 90 22:33:00 GMT You are makeing what I beleive is an unwarranted and unrealistic assumption, i.e., that the changes would take place quickly. Unless you are going to assume that the aliens are going to bring gigantic cargo ships here full of all the mini-power generators and hand deliver them and hook them up at everyones house, and that they are going to somehow create vast "food-factories" or whatever that will put farmers out of business overnight, I don't think you'll see the upheaval you are visualizing. As long as we are just guessing anyways, doesn't it seem much more likely that, at best, the aliens will tell us HOW to get "free" power and "free" food, but that in order to actually get the "free" stuff we will have to create whole new industries to build all the mini-power generators and food-factories. Is it really any different then the suggestion that if the transistor had been invented AND perfected AND the complete plans for the needed factories had been all accomplished in a couple of years instead of the almost decade it really took that things would actually changed immediately? Seems unlikely to me, even if all those things had happened with the transistor, it STILL would have taken a number of years to mobilize the men and material needed to get into production and redesign everything to take advantage of the transistor. We see massive shifts in the economic structure taking place over brief time spans now and we manage to accommodate to it. Look what is happening in Europe -- in the space of a few months East German has ceased to exist, the monetary system has quite quickly shifted, travel has god-knows-how-many-upled, yet man and his economic system marches on. In AZ we have seen the economy go from darn good to pretty bad in quite a few sectors in only a year or two, yet people are adjusting quite quickly. The construction workers have zipped right over to CA where the market is hot still. We have seen 200 billion in assets go up in smoke in the S & L fiasco but even that really isn't affecting people in the sense that they feel their whole life has been turned upside down. Maybe I'm just too optimistic, but I think the economy and populace could easily accomodate a sudden change to free power and food given the time it would take to actually implement such a thing and also because it is a positive change. I would not say the same if the premise was that something was going to make food and power 10 times more expensive. I think that would be far more disruptive because we are ALL users whereas in the first instance, only a small portion of us are PROVIDERS. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: True.. Date: 14 Apr 90 22:37:00 GMT If one were to hypothesize one might suggest that any group advanced enough to come here to visit would be able to rig their ships so that if anything went wrong the ship would simple selfdestruct in such a way as to leave no meaningful residue for us to study. One might also posit that an advance race would also be unlikely to suffer mechanical breakdowns due to their superior abilities. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Interesting Materials / Missing BBS Date: 15 Apr 90 17:17:46 GMT The 3* interview has me curious, & I have some questions. Frequently, I see references made to Cooper, Lear, et al. Also, I am aware of some older articles (past year, or so): - Operation Majority by M.W. Cooper - Origin & meaning of KRLL, etc. by M.W. Cooper - Human Mutilation Factor by D. Ecker - A Strange Harvest Continues by L.M. Howe - Project Grudge / Aquarius by MAJI (Cooper?) - CUFON Freedom of Information Act Document Files - etc., etc. I would be interested in reading these, & similar, related articles, checking them out for myself, & making my own conclusions. Unfortunantly, these documents are difficult to find. So, does there exist a way to access these materials? Presumbably they've been archived somewhere; is there a LISTSERV address, or an FTP node available? Or, I would have no problem dialing into a BBS to download such material; but such sites are rather difficult to find, which brings up my last question(s). In the March/April (Volume 5, Number 2) issue of "UFO", there is in the back a reference to 2 BBSs: - ParaNet Information Service: 303/232-6115 (9600-8-N-1) (this number has been disconnected, or is no longer in service) - UFONET Computer Information Service: 602/526-8025 (this number has been disconnected, or is no longer in service) Neither of these boards exist. Why? Can someone share with me the number of a board that does exist? If all else fails, could someone just Email me a copy? Thanks ahead of time, -Robert Robert B. Murdock University of Colorado at Colorado Springs *------------------------------------------* | BITnet: rbmurdock@colospgs | | INTERnet: rbmurdoc@colospgs.bitnet | | ARPAnet: rbmurdock@colospgs.EDU | | UUnet: uunet!colospgs.bitnet!RBMURDOC | | GEnie: R.MURDOCK | | FIDOnet: 1:128/16.0 Robert Murdock | *------------------------------------------* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.) Subject: Tesla Date: 15 Apr 90 22:40:44 GMT Clarke: There is a sympathetic article on Tesla in the June 1986 issue of the Smithsonian magazine , with quite a few old pix. Whether Tesla also deserves credit for the Star Wars (SDI) concept, I can't say. I have heard of Project OZMA, but frankly I can't imagine Carl Sagan not announcing it if anything intelligible had been received. The official story is that Frank Drake bootlegged time on a radiotelescope for the the search. The book SETI has a good history of the search for ET radio waves, as do other publications of Sagan and the Planetary Society. Tesla was never mentioned in any of the SETI books and articles I've seen. Im not sure I understand what a scalar wave would be. Is it something like a sound wave which requires only one number to characterize its instantaneous value (pressure)? Some theorists have compared the QM vacuum with its fields and virtual particles to the ether --- John -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen Subject: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter Date: 15 Apr 90 06:54:00 GMT JD>the water we drink, and when it comes right down to it, you can eat pretty JD>cheaply if you like beans and bread. I used to live in Ajo,Arizona a longgggg time ago..As I recall, water wasn't exactly free or cheap (Ajo is in the thick of the desert). It was "free" if you were willing to drill deep enough but then,you'd be paying for the electricity to run the pumps to pull it up. Now,I live in the Central Florida area and guess what? I still have to pay for water,so it ain't "free". I don't agree that there's many merchants that would sit still for long if (since we're speaking in the hypothetical sense) the "space brothers" came down to our dimension and released the info on building an apparatus that would provide truly free electricity (remember..Nikola Tesla and the Schumann cavity?) OR gave us a truly safe method of generating and distributing nuclear energy without all the mess that we presently have (nuclear waste,et al). As for food production and distribution..that's something we're already working on but at a slow rate (hydroponics) but wait! ..what if (oh god..there he goes again!) the "space brothers" had a means to plant a seed and make it grow into a plant before your very eyes?! That sounds like an impossibility to our known physics,but I believe the knowledge of something like this already exists. Let's talk about your basic transportation...a car for example. What do you think the big US carmakers and the Japanese would react if the technology was released in a vehicle that burned NO hydocarbons or fossil fuels..NO built-in obsolescence. That could put LOTS of people out of work. As I recall from reading the books on Atlantis there was mention of a vehicle called a VALIX that operated in much a manner that the UFO's do,and could seat from 2 people to a bus-like conveyance. It operated on the "night-side" principle (whatever that is). I could ramble on and on,but you get the idea. I think it's entirely possible,though some may argue whether it's plausible that a scenario of "too-soon" released info of higher tech from the UFOs COULD precipitate a war. Think of all the OIL interests that would LOSE OUT if such info were forthcoming and commonplace.And the UTILITY companies as well. I believe alot would be impacted..electrical distribution, food production and distribution,transportation,electronics and computers, the list is endless. It WOULD alter our civilization. -- Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Allen@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Ray.Griffin Subject: UFO Video Date: 15 Apr 90 12:15:00 GMT Last night, I returned a call which I had received from Cathy Ware, Publicity Chairwoman for the July Mufon Symposium, she told me that several people were going to a certain spot to watch for UFOs. Afew nights earlier, at another location, an object was seen, but Cathy is near-sighted and could not see it clearly. Because of this, some of the video team were frustrated with her, as they wanted complete agreement on what was seen. I told Cathy I would join them. Shortly, after the people arrived, a large ball of red light came bouncing and yo-yoing in directly towards them, hesitated for (pictures) and then zoomed off into the NorthEastern sky, changing to a white sphere as it leftthe scene. This video as well as several other 35mm shots could prove interesting to those who attend the Mufon Symposium, as it will surly be featured. There were many witnesses across the city. As to an investigation. It isn't necessary, nothing could move the way it did, and there isn't any need to confirm to the witnesses that they saw what they saw. In the famous words of Fyffe " I seen what I seen ". -- Ray Griffin - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Ray.Griffin@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!John.Novak Subject: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter Date: 16 Apr 90 04:02:00 GMT Not to mention the fact that the real people who hold the power in this country would lose control if suddenly fossil fuels were no longer used, food supplies were plentiful, medicine was advanced to put major Pharmaceutical companies out of business...all the areas of heavy investments by International financiers and the power elite. This would be unacceptable, since I feel the goal of these people is to be at the top of a "World Economy" and therefore firmly in control. Loook at what has already been done over the years to put down alternative energy sources, alternative medical practices not sanctified by the A.M.A, the dependence on fossil fuels even though there's absolute proofthat we're destroying the ozone layer and our ecological balance. There's the increase of freedoms in the Eastern Block while freedoms are gradually being taken away from us in the West...is it paving the way for a world economy? Who knows for sure...but it's a cinch the people in control aren't going to let any of these apple carts be overturned at least until there's an acceptable alternative plan. And if our "Gov." still is unsure of what's going on concerning the E.T. presence and can't assure the public that they can do anything about it, there will be no way to retain control. (Especially once it's realized that they have allowed many questionable things to go on for many years while covering it up). Yes...I think there are plenty of reasons why a cover-up must continue until info. can be released on the Gov's. terms and timetable. -- John Novak - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Novak@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!John.Novak Subject: Re: True.. Date: 16 Apr 90 04:10:00 GMT I think your point is well taken. Could this mean that perhaps they want their presence known and have some sort of plan or method for doing this? Just thinking out loud. I think landings on the White House lawn are products of Hollywood and not advanced thinking. Not very subtle...and obviously if UFO's do exist they've been pretty subtle so far for some reason. -- John Novak - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Novak@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: logajan@ns.network.com (John Logajan) Subject: Klass vs Clark Date: 16 Apr 90 17:16:39 GMT John H. Chalmers, Jr. -- a couple of quibbles with things mentioned in one of your paranet posts: 1.) You take Jerome Clark to task for saying that Klass had not disproved the authenticity of the MJ-12 papers. I suspect Clark said that because Klass was claiming at the time that he had in fact disproved the authenticity. Whether Klass has since cast further doubt on MJ-12 hardly reflects poorly on Clark, contrary to what you suggest. Clark is an investigator in the true sense of the word. He did not start out assuming that MJ-12 was true or false. He did not say that MJ-12 was to be assumed true until proven false. He merely took the situation as it arose and attempted to investigate it. He never said that MJ-12 was authentic, but neither was he side-tracked by pre-mature pronouncements of its inauthenticity. 2.) I think your quotation of Klass's abductee challenge demonstrates the silliness that Klass has engaged in. You said he challenged abductees to report their abduction to the FBI, and you claim he said that their failure to do so further demonstrates the inauthenticity of their claims. You also mention that he said that it is a serious punishable crime to report "false" kidnappings. But wouldn't any report of a kidnapping by paranormal beings be considered prima facie evidence of a false kidnapping report. Even assuming such an abduction actually occurred, wouldn't the government punish anyone officially reporting such a thing because of the official stand that UFO's do not exist (as alien manifestations.) So what did Klass prove by this challenge? What is proved in either case (abductees do report as challenged, or abductees refuse to report)? Klass, in my book, makes a serious logical mistake in assuming that alternate explanations are PROOF. In fact, there are an infinite number of alternate explanations for any given observed phenomena. Some fit the known evidence better than others, but not all the evidence is always conclusive, so assuming PROOF in these cases is not a LOGICAL option. I consider myself a skeptic, but I consider Klass a debunker. He has taken a certain advocacy position -- and as such he is ALSO required to adduce sufficient supportive evidence. He cannot merely make counter assertions to support his position. As a skeptic, I expect that both Clark and Klass must prove their cases. I also know that both Clark and Klass are skeptics also (as any true scientific investigator must be.) But it is vital that one recognize when one has crossed the border of valid skepticism and entered into an advocacy position (i.e. defending the current orthodoxy.) I know, too, that both Clark and Klass (and myself) have their own biases. Clark investigates UFO's because he thinks there must be something behind it all (beyond mere hoax) while Klass assumes the opposite. Obviously I myself have my own bias. But all three of us (and the world in general) can work beyond our biases and act as true skeptics. In my opinion Klass has failed to do this more egregiously than Clark. Clark behaves more in the model of the true skeptic, and I admire him for that. - John Logajan @ Network Systems; 7600 Boone Ave; Brooklyn Park, MN 55428 - logajan@ns.network.com, john@logajan.mn.org, 612-424-4888, Fax 424-2853 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gene Gross Subject: More info on a film Date: 16 Apr 90 19:53:54 GMT Hi all, Some time back, say about a month or two ago, I saw a documentary called "The Force Beyond." Toward the very end of the film was part of a BW film shot from an airplane window. Instead of some fuzzy object, there in all its glory was the cigar-shaped craft. I reviewed the film again Sunday night in the hopes that Donn Davison, who produced, co-wrote, and sometimes narrated the film, might explain the origins of the piece of BW film. He never does. But I watched it several times. The most errie piece of film I've watched yet. In addition, here is some more information I got from the film. Two of the many people interviewed were Professor Donald Elkins, physicist, and Michael C. Heleus, mathematician. They were talking about the bands of light seen when studying a UFO. Their basic conclusions were that to create the bands of light required at least "200,000 gauss." The Earth's magnetic field measures only 1/2-gauss. (That is what they said--I'm just reporting it. ;-)) Among some of the others interviewed were William Pitts, Jim and Coral Lorenzen, and Mr. Friend. They also ran some interviews conducted at a convention in Fort Smith, AR, several years ago. The film starts off rather melodramatically, with all kinds of warnings and disclaimers about not being responsible for any problems that the information in the film might cause. Once you get past that, there are some good film pieces from a variety of sources. Several of the NASA pics caused me to sit up and take notice--I hadn't seen them before. Has anyone else seen this film? If so, what did you think about the film as a whole and about the cigar-shaped craft shown at the end of the film? Gene ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************