Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 207 Wednesday, April 18th 1990 Today's Topics: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter Flap in Belgium? Re: Looking For A Book Re: Black Helicopters Re: Black Helicopters Re: Black Helicopters Re: Tesla Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter Re: True.. Re: Windshield Guy Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter Steath Corvette And 'Bob'... Gasoline Alley UFO theme; new movie: Alien Seed Re: Important Info. Klass (none) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen Subject: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter Date: 17 Apr 90 03:19:00 GMT JD>But you are going well beyond the original premise of one JD>items of knowledge being given to us to the premise of an JD>invasion of cargo fleets of alien goodies that would be handed out on JD>the corner for free. If the aliens get into that mode, we will have JD>plenty of things to cause chaos besides a few capitolists worried JD>about market share. Actually,I just exploring different avenues of looking at the whole shebang. I do hesitate to play the "what if" viewpoint as I don't see much profit in that,but I feel we are at an impasse now,with some investigations still continuing and the Gulfbreeze "incident" appears to be the main subject of debate. I really just don't know what to make of all these alleged claims of greys taking over..I don't have enough information yet to really form a solid opinion yet..it would appear that somethings going on here that smells rotten but at the same time I can't put my finger on it exactly. I've seen both extremes...from Lear,Cooper to Lazar..what I'd like to *see* is something that I can sink my teeth in and feel good about..no disinfo crap..no rigged GB photos... Still,the decade is young and I ain't been raptured yet ;^) -- Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Allen@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen Subject: Flap in Belgium? Date: 17 Apr 90 03:24:00 GMT Has anyone got any info on the UFO flap in Belgium? I heard a very small piece on radio about something recently,but (of course) there wasn't any info on the TV.. -- Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Allen@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Paul.Carr Subject: Re: Looking For A Book Date: 17 Apr 90 03:52:00 GMT You don't need vulcanism to explain the release of gases. There are a number of mechanisms I can think of. It makes sense to me that the thermal stresses near the terminator must be considerable. The radiation equilibrium temperature cahnges by about 300 degress C across that line! Now, imagine that you are a large bit of rock and YOUR temperature just dropped 10^2 degrees C or more (or increased). Wouldn't you move around a bit? -- Paul Carr - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Paul.Carr@f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!John.Burke Subject: Re: Black Helicopters Date: 16 Apr 90 23:23:00 GMT Jim: The article just mentioned that the NRO exists, in spite of gov't. denials. They didn't give any other details. -- John -- John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Burke@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!John.Burke Subject: Re: Black Helicopters Date: 16 Apr 90 23:34:00 GMT Mike: I was referring to Bill Cooper, a purveyor of some of the wildest stories to be found in ufology. (He's big on secret deals between the gov't. & the aliens.) The only other source to which I can direct you as far as the black helicopters go is an article (about 80 pages long) written by Bob Oeschler (sp?) in the 1989 MUFON Symposium Proceedings. You can pick it up for about $15 from Uncle Walt Andrus at MUFON. Also, UFO magazine did an article about the Black Helicopters a while back. You can order the back issue. (It was the cover story.) If you read _Report on Communion_ by Ed Conroy you'll see about his run-ins with these helicas well. -- John -- John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Burke@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!John.Burke Subject: Re: Black Helicopters Date: 16 Apr 90 23:45:00 GMT Jim: Don't worry. I'm not about to start believing in Cooper's Material. My point was that I didn't believe in the NRO (because it plays an important role in Cooperology) until I read that article. -- John -- John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Burke@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!Clark.Matthews Subject: Re: Tesla Date: 17 Apr 90 06:01:00 GMT > I have heard of Project OZMA, but frankly I can't > imagine Carl Sagan not announcing it if anything > intelligible > had been received. The official story is that Frank Drake > bootlegged time on a radiotelescope for the the search. The > book > SETI has a good history of the search for ET radio waves, > as > do other publications of Sagan and the Planetary Society. > Tesla was never mentioned in any of the SETI books and > articles I've seen. John, this is very intersting. Could you steer me to some source material on project OZMA? I'm very intersted in this old project, its players, methods, data and consequences. Many thanks! Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter Date: 16 Apr 90 22:55:00 GMT I can't dispute that if you make the scenerio wild enough that, yes, there would be upheavel. But you are going well beyond the original premise of one or two items of knowledge being given to us to the premise of an invasion of cargo fleets of alien goodies that would be handed out on the corner for free. If the aliens get into that mode, we will have plenty of things to cause chaos besides a few capitolists worried about market share. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: True.. Date: 16 Apr 90 22:56:00 GMT The subtly could also be an indication that they don't really exist. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Ray.Griffin Subject: Re: Windshield Guy Date: 16 Apr 90 23:31:00 GMT Thanks, a recent article out of Las Vegas had his moniker on it, but perhaps it's a rewash. The message was forwarded to me from the the Northwest (Washington). It may have been just know getting there. -- Ray Griffin - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Ray.Griffin@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!David.Mottern Subject: Re: Conviction of Adm Poindexter Date: 17 Apr 90 01:32:00 GMT So in other words... If the government DOESN'T try to shut down Paranet then what is being said on Paranet must be true. AND... If the government DOES try to shut down Paranet then what is being said on Paranet must be true. Maybe I'm misunderstanding some VERY subtle logic here but my Logic 101 Professor would have given this kind of reasoning an F- . -- David Mottern - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: David.Mottern@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Steath Corvette And 'Bob'... Date: 17 Apr 90 17:18:27 GMT A friend of mine just recently showed me the May, 1990 issue of Car and Driver magazine. On page 125 is an article entitled "Stealth Corvette". It's not a joke. The gist of the article is about a man, "Bob" (not his real name), who modified a 1986 Corvette to make it "invisible" to conventional detection methods such as radar. "Bob" is doing this in Nevada. Allow me to quote a few lines from the closing paragraphs..... "Bob is a tinkerer..." "Bob would like to listen for extraterrestrial perpetrators..." "That's not a pipe dream--not for Bob." "Nobody's been able to get into Groom Lake, a supersecret military base in Nevada also known as Area 51, Site S4. Bob says, "They have nine UFO's kept up there". Well, there probably isn't any significance to this article. Some possibilities: a.) "Bob" is someone who really has the Corvette, and knows about Lazar's story. As a sort of joke, he chose the name "Bob" for the interview with Car and Driver. b.) "Bob" really is Robert Lazar.....Naaah! c.) "Bob" and his "Stealth" Corvette is simply another piece of disinformation to throw us off-track. Just thought you might find this interesting. Jim ------------------------------------------- GRAHAM@IUCF.BITNET BBS: "The PORTAL DOLMEN" (812)334-0418 after 9:00 p.m. EST, daily Home: (812)334-7754 Work: (812)855-7882 ------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: keithr@tolkien.wv.tek.com Subject: Gasoline Alley UFO theme; new movie: Alien Seed Date: 17 Apr 90 17:22:12 GMT I'm following with some interest the current Gasoline Alley comic strip. To my knowledge, the current UFO sighting theme started 4-11-90. Walt, middle-aged husband of Phyllis, says he saw a saucer. She, disbelieving, tries to talk him out of it. He decides to go for a walk to visit Skeezix, his son. Today, Walt visits Skeezix at the gas station where his son works. Walt says to a derisive, "Were there any little green men?", that they had little heads and giant bodies. This reminds us of the Russian Voronezh sighting and a Kansas or Oklahoma sighting of about the same time, right? I wonder where the cartoonist will take this theme? Do any of you know of any comic strips that treated the UFO in a series over some days, developing the theme? This can't be a first, right? There are, of course, countless one panel gags about UFOs, and Hynek was famous for is collection of them. But is this the first comic strip series to treat the UFO? *************** I have a report from a UFO researcher friend that he came across a new movie on video tape only, apparently. It is called "Alien Seed" and the blurb on the back mentioned "MJ-12". He found it at a Bend, OR, 7-11 convenience store. Bend is 170 miles from me. I've checked a few places in town and no one has heard of it. If anyone knows more about this, please tell us. I will view it if I can get a copy, and I'll make a report back here. Thanks, Keith -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparta!esanborn (Ed Sanborn) Subject: Re: Important Info. Date: 17 Apr 90 21:56:36 GMT Hello Mr. English, I've been meaning to correspond for some time now. With your recent posting to Don (I assume Ecker) my curiosity has been peeking. We haven't met or corresponded before so allow me to intrduce myself. My name is Ed Sanborn. As well as Systems Administrator for a small computer networking company in Massachusetts I've been serving as the latest in a long line of MassMufon State Directors. I'm a relative new-comer to the research/investigations but I find myself having to learn in leaps and bounds. I'm located in a section of Mass. that has about 20 or so well known researchersand it has afforded me alot of insight into the UFO/alien/goverment conspiracy/ cover-up/? field. At any rate, having only peripheral knowledge into your work I can see you've done alot for the cause. I've read your paper, the title of which sits at my desk at home right now, which I received at the Las Vegas Mufon Symposium last year. I found it intriguing. Bill, if I can be of any assistance or if I can act as a relay to any of the other UFOlogists in the area here please fell free to email me or phone, or write. Take care. Edward A. Sanborn 175 Cross St. Lowell, Ma. 01854 H# (508) 453-5609 uunet!sparta!esanborn -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.) Subject: Klass Date: 18 Apr 90 01:20:37 GMT Jim: I'm eager to see what you have on the U of N incident. I trust that the subject will be of interest to others, otherwise send to me privately. Needless to say, I find this behavior rather bizarre. (Jim and John) As for the challenge, I offered it only as a possible source of the legal threat rumor. I heard about it at a talk by Klass in SF probably in early 1989 under the auspices of BAS. I hadn't heard that Hopkins met it. Frankly, I can't imagine the FBI taking the abduction cases very seriously in the absence of convincing physicaltraces. It seemed like a counter-PR ploy to me at the time. My first knowledge of the MJ-12 documents was through the first articles in SI, but even so the inconsistencies looked pretty damning to me. The Truman signature transplant was the the coup de grace. (JIM) Obviously, the decision as to whether Klass speaks for CSICOP is CSICOP's to make. As a professional scientist, I don't see Establishment Science as monolithic an entity as others might. I do, however, recall with distaste the necessity of narrowing my intellectual interests as a grad student. Now that I'm mostly in industry, I find I have more intellectual freedom, though ironically, I get this conference via a university based UNIX system. (JOHN) Clark certainly reads like an advocate to me in his "Fringes of Reason" essays. I realize that advocacy is a both a hazard and alas, somewhat of a necessity if one wants to get heard. My original point was that Klass seemed to be getting trashed without any evidence being presented. Admittedly, I'm a relative newcomer to ParaNet and the specifics may be common knowledge, neverthless, I think its a good idea to repeat them ocasionally as the membership is growing and changing. --- John -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: isis!well!ddrasin (Dan Drasin) Subject: (none) Date: 18 Apr 90 12:13:31 GMT Skepticism and debunkery To: John Logajan Your recent posting on Clark and Klass was first-rate. Thanks particularly for your crystal-clear description of Klass' errors of logic, and of the vital distinction between intelligent skepticism and mere scientistic debunkery. Skepticism has always seemed to me not to be a right, but a privilege; a privilege earned by doing one's homework impeccably and maintaining a sense of humor about one's own position and opinions. An unqualified skeptic can be as destructive as an unqualified physician. =d= ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************