Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 223 Tuesday, May 15th 1990 Today's Topics: For Discussion Re: (none) Re: Water Engines... for real! Re: Meier (TO: Dan Drasin) Re: Paranet Newsletter 213 Re: Meier (TO: Dan Drasin) Re: Paranet Newsletter 213 Biblical Accounts Re: Meier (TO: Dan Drasin) Yosemite crash? For Discussion Re: WATER-POWERED ENGIN Re: UFO'S AND THE CIA Re: ECHO GUIDELINES Re: BIBLICAL ACCOUNTS Re: Meier (TO: Dan Drasin) Re: Biblical Accounts GB Circle Re: Meier (TO: Dan Drasin) Re: Sonic booms & UFO's ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Thomas.Lett Subject: For Discussion Date: 12 May 90 05:41:12 GMT I would like some response on a concept of using a controlled mass to do work on a second, or platform, mass. The controlled mass is in the form of mutiple rings of proportional mass rotating in opposite directions. The rings velocity must be greater than orbital velocity and of sufficient size to withstand the centrifugal forces. These rings would serve as the engine (by controlling their velocity) which could raise and suspend a platform mass. The concept is throwing a "heavy" object into orbit fast enough to pull another mass with it. This vehicle would be able to use electricity as a power source and should prove to be very efficient. -- Thomas Lett - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Thomas.Lett@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: (none) Date: 11 May 90 17:05:00 GMT Excuse me for butting in here; but the acceptance of the "expanation" for the tree in the Mier Films not being where it should have been makes any attempt at sorting out what's going on useless. If you are going to accept explanations from the pleadians (thru Billy himself of course) what's the point of even trying to seperate fact from fiction. One of the other items that has come up is that Billy Photo of the Space Girl turned out to be a picture of a Model in a Sears catalogue. Naturally, you can always come up with an explanation - I think I once heard that explained away as - the pleadians needed something to model themselves after so they happened to pick a model from the catalog. That really makes no sense when you consider that there are lots of people (real live ones) walking around that they could just look at, but NOOOO, they have to root thru a catalog to find a photo to emulate. There are so many things wrong with this case that I am always amazed at the support it gets when we have cases like Lake Erie, where there is, at least as far as I have ever heard, no indication of hoax or fraud and where there are independent gvt witnesses (coast guard) that back up the witnesses statements. Plus, other independent witnesses who photographed the same strange triangular objects at the "right" time to support to sighting. But Lake Erie has been fairly quickly forgotten while Mier's Pleadians just keep rolling along in spite the incredibly hoaxy looking films, in spite of the models, in spite of the sears catalog, in spite of the lack of any independent witnesses. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: Water Engines... for real! Date: 11 May 90 17:11:00 GMT I certainly like to hear more about the hyrogen engine. Even if the tank only held enough water for a 75 mile trip, that's a heck of alot better then a battery powered car. If you only need the car for around town you could refill your tank at any number of places very quickly. With batteries you have to wait hours and hours to "refill". Plus, you have to generate that electricity which means more polution whereas the water breaks down into a fairly clean material. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews Subject: Re: Meier (TO: Dan Drasin) Date: 12 May 90 03:56:00 GMT -> > up to speed). And of course there is the change in exposure which you -> > have observed. However, in *other* instances, there is a momentary -> > *darkening* of the frame. This is *never* observed when a motion -> > picture camera is momentarily shut off and re-started. Hello Jim & Dan. May I interject here? I must agree with Dan that flash frames are the result of a loss of camera speed -- they're consistent with an unsteady trigger finger or with frequent short takes where the operator is trying to conserve film. Something overlooked here is the dark frames, however. I have seen darkened frames -- on internegative! Operate an optical system intermittently and you get dark frames. This opens up a can of worms, of course, because -- while internegative is an ideal, very professional way to fake superimpositions, it would make NO SENSE to do optical work on film with flash frames. Unless the object of the exercise was to include obvious problems with the film (flash frames) in the hopes that examiners might overlook more sophisticated possibilities (optical work via internegative). Even so, a frame-by-frame examination (which flash frames would virtually guarantee) would lead to the inevitable discovery of the dark frames. Anyway, it sounds like very, very sloppy optical work! For what it's worth, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews Subject: Re: Paranet Newsletter 213 Date: 12 May 90 04:00:00 GMT ->Nobody in the Big Apple media even suggests taking these topics seriously. I disagree. I know people who take it seriously. It just never gets into print! Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f725.n209.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Tim.Hamewka Subject: Re: Meier (TO: Dan Drasin) Date: 11 May 90 17:36:11 GMT In regards to studying cases which don't contain questionable evidence, I think we would have to forget about practicly all UFO cases, since most of them are reported by eyewitnesses. You can't get any more questionable than that. Most people don't trust photos or films, so where does that leave us? -- Tim Hamewka - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Tim.Hamewka@f725.n209.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f725.n209.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Daniel.Wisnosky Subject: Re: Paranet Newsletter 213 Date: 11 May 90 23:13:23 GMT n> All I can tell you is that, except for the low-quality segments n> on the various network and syndicated shows ("Inside Edition", n> etc, all of which have been commented upon here) we on the East n> Coast are getting ZIP! in the way of serious discussion of UFOs. n> I really envy you folks in Vegas and points west... I drool at n> all this talk of TV and radio talk show coverage. Well, the Billy Goodman show was about to go satelite, but I suppose that doesn't help much being as his show was pulled April 1st. Perhaps, though, someone could put up transcripts from some of the stuff we've been seeing here in Vegas (Knapp's reports, ect. for the people who can't see it themselves. -- Daniel Wisnosky - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Daniel.Wisnosky@f725.n209.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f740.n115.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Greg.Clawson Subject: Biblical Accounts Date: 11 May 90 23:47:44 GMT I wanted to say my views on UFO's and other strange happenings. First off, I am a fervent believer of Biblical hings. And I am *NOT* going to preach here but will make some statements to the course of Biblical teachings. It is written: About Angels which were around when the Universe was young. These Angelic hosts where casted out and judged for evil ways with Knowledge they used. [By the way, this is a Spiritual Account translated from Bible texts from a King James Version]. These Angels were cast into a place we know of called HELL. And I for one believe this since many occurances of Spiritual events I witnessed coincide with Biblical Teachings. The Bible teaches we are made of DUST. And our souls are the real living entity that will survive eternity. But, because we "transgressed" Spiritual law we were casted out. Just like Satan was but we were given a chance to return via the Christ Regeneration. And today we see quite a difference in people for no apperant reason people just outburst with anger and suicidal actions that cause the death of other's. These people (have irrational) thoughts that before do *NOT* cause them to do these things. So there is a Black and White line drawn in this world. An Evil and Good posture. And this boils down to "Morality". Consider if a man was able to leave Earth to go to the farthest end of the Universe he would have to be able to combat extreem speeds that he would not die from a heart attack or such fraility. So, it is my understanding, we are not meant for traveling thru space. But, we are on this Earth to be searched out if we shall be given these kinds of bodies..(biblically accounted). To have "Eternal" life. And the quality that goes with that body. We must be found, "righteous", so the Bible speaks. And the only way we can get this is if we ask for it. And believe thru Jesus Christ and his regeneration inwardly. I say this above because there is a Spiritual evil in this world and many lies which account that what I have stated is true above. Though to your own experiences you have accounted above as "ludicrious" because you have *NOT* had the same experiences as me. I "see" these spiritual forces with my eyes. And they are not (from the mind) or some drug I am on. These forces float by my face all the time. Wether they are good or evil I cannot tell but from the actions I hear and see from Human Beings I have accounted from. These said actions are 1) killing people 2) commiting acts of other violent nature 3) and acts of hatred against your fellow man. So, I have concluded there is only Black and White in this world. The meaning is only in the "moral" sense. I also believe it crazy that people dont believe the Biblical accounts. And this is due impart because of Spirtual Mind Bending. What ever UFO's there are in the world, I would consider extreme caution as to believing accounts where there is much darkness to there explainations. No matter what Kind of UFO's, or contacts you encounter. I for one have found the Bible concepts to be valid. (I am not able to explain why here though). - Greg -- Greg Clawson - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Greg.Clawson@p0.f740.n115.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Subject: Re: Meier (TO: Dan Drasin) Date: 12 May 90 19:07:00 GMT > In regards to studying cases which don't contain questionable evidence, > I think we would have to forget about practicly all UFO cases, since > most of them are reported by eyewitnesses. You can't get any more > questionable than that. Most people don't trust photos or films, so > where does that leave us? It leaves us with the photos and films, and other physical trace cases, regardless of who trusts them and who doesn't. Remember we are STUDYING the problem, not passing judgement on a whole class of report en masse. SOME photo cases are intrinsically suspect (Meier, the Breeze, UMMO...), some are thus far unexplained and do not even hint at hoax (Hudson Valley, Japan, Trent...) These last require intense scrutiny. I, for one, don't care what some people "trust" or don't "trust, I just go where the evidence leads. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f204.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Kurt.Lochner Subject: Yosemite crash? Date: 13 May 90 07:12:00 GMT Interesting that that would be the same place mentioned in the Majestic book. I've been watching the news lately and have seen no mention of this crash. I did catch the Inside Edition report on the Roswell incident, but they also sited the Majic-12 reports. Not very convincing to have that mentioned again ( and again..) but the interviews with the local folks seemed genuine enough. -- Kurt Lochner - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Kurt.Lochner@f204.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f204.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Kurt.Lochner Subject: For Discussion Date: 13 May 90 07:21:00 GMT TL I would like some response on a concept of using a controlled TL mass to do work on a second, or platform, mass. The TL controlled mass is in the form of mutiple rings of TL proportional mass rotating in opposite TL directions. The rings velocity must be greater than orbital TL velocity and of sufficient size to withstand the centrifugal TL forces. These rings would serve as the engine (by TL controlling their velocity) which TL could raise and suspend a platform mass. The concept is TL throwing a "heavy" object into orbit fast enough to pull TL another mass with it. This vehicle would be able to use TL electricity as a power source and should prove to be very TL efficient. I've considered that possibility, and mentioned it to a Japanese professor that I have had for several physics classes. Not surprisingly, he replied that it could work, provided that there's enough energy input to equal the force output. Then about eight monthes later, I hear of the Japanese publishing preliminary reports about the coupled gyroscopes losing weight.... But I don't think of such a system as an engine, I call it a Mass Transformer. But your idea has quite a bit of merit! Talk to me.... -- Kurt Lochner - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Kurt.Lochner@f204.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Ea.Richards Subject: Re: WATER-POWERED ENGIN Date: 10 May 90 21:11:08 GMT Pete, the problem with the idea of running an engine on pure hydrogen, with water as the byproduct of combustion, is that with the simple H2 it would be difficult to compress the hydrogen enough to utilize for longer journeys. And if there is to be a separation of hydrogen and oxygen from water to used for fuel, the energy to do the separating would be far more than the resulting fuel would have for combustion. The efficency is the stumbling block. What we need is a small nuclear reactor to run a vapor engine using mercury. The reactor and the mercury supply would have to be collision proof. (I can here it now from the environmentalists - out of the petroleum pan into the chain reaction fire!) -- Ea Richards - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Ea.Richards@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Ea.Richards Subject: Re: UFO'S AND THE CIA Date: 11 May 90 16:34:34 GMT First of all, who is T.S. Bennett? Don't tell me, let me guess.... He must be one of conservative bent who doesn't put up with the blather of the liberals and their media cohorts, one of which categories must include you. Both your characterization of the Woodward book, and of Woodward, and of the targets at which you both have taken aim, are really new whines in old bottles, to more deftly define your 'whine' choice. Woodward's books, as so many done by the bleeding heart leftist press, are written solely for the liberal aggrandizement, slanted directly at people like you, who then can sit back and say, un huh! yup! Gee, that's right! all about those nasty conservatives whose philosophies are anathematic in your jaundiced eyes. Woodward is a liberal klutz who spends too much of his time deep throating, not realizing it's passe, if it ever was valid. -- Ea Richards - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Ea.Richards@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Ea.Richards Subject: Re: ECHO GUIDELINES Date: 11 May 90 16:45:35 GMT Doug, I believe in the golden rule with regard to BBS forums, which is: Respond to the tenor of the response.... In some cases, a majority of those holding similar views make the decision as to what is, or is not, acceptable behavior for those who post. If one's comments are along those lines held by the majority, then stretching guidelines is acceptable; if they are comments held by a small minority, stretching guidelines causes a massive clucking of tongues, accompanied by a plethora of complaints from the 'oh my goodness, did you see that' set. So, my responses to responses will be in accordance with the second sentence above, while my original postings will adhere to standards of decorum, following the example of those who would dispute. Perfectly clear? (Now where did I hear that before?) -- Ea Richards - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Ea.Richards@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Pete.Porro Subject: Re: BIBLICAL ACCOUNTS Date: 12 May 90 17:56:13 GMT I will reply in Netmail, but you have hit one nail square on the head. The Bible and other religious texts are not literal scientific fact, nor are they historical texts of recorded research. They are representations of true events, wisdom, and moral guides. The wisdom of the tribe, passed on for future generations. If someone saw a wheel in the sky, and the wheel was run by the faith of God, it means that. We as later readers may wish to believe it was a UFO, but the message is not literal necessarily. Stretching a point, maybe Jonah was swallowed by an underwater UFO? I think that looking for UFO's in the religious texts is like looking for UFO's in gardening books. If you try hard enough, one will find something that can be stretched to fit. As you can guess I believe in the religious beliefs that people have, I also believe in hard scientific evidence for information. One is based on faith, one is based on fact. There is no conflict between science and religion, but when one tries to explain ET's or UFO's based on faith, there arrives a problem in logical thinking. -- Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Tim.Hamewka Subject: Re: Meier (TO: Dan Drasin) Date: 13 May 90 20:50:00 GMT Spoken like a true professional! -- Tim Hamewka - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Tim.Hamewka@f26.n123.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Gene.Gross Subject: Re: Biblical Accounts Date: 13 May 90 16:48:00 GMT Greg: You say that mankind is not meant to travel in space. The reasons you give sound like the reasons given when we developed cars. There were a number of articles written by "scientists" and theologians that stated that man could not survive speeds in excess of 10 mph. Frankly, I see no reason that mankind can't travel into space. The only limitation at this point is our technology. We are unable to travel at c or c+. However, we might soon discover the means of FTL travel. We have traveled to the moon and back several times. We have plans on the drawing board for a Mars mission. In another 50 years or so, we may well see scientific colonies on the moon and Mars, as well as exploratory missions to some of the outer planets, i.e., Jupiter, Saturn, etc. In another two years or so, we will have another Mars probe out circling Mars taking photos. Among the areas that will be photographed will be the plain of Cydonia where there appears to be evidence of other intteligence (not from this Earth). As a fundamentalist, I'm sure that you'll attribute such a find to the works of Satan and the fallen angels. You might want to rethink that in light of what the Bible really says. -- Gene Gross -- Gene Gross - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Gene.Gross@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Subject: GB Circle Date: 13 May 90 20:26:00 GMT So I see in the latest MUFON Journal that there appears to be an exact replica of one of the English wheatfield circles in Gulf Breeze. I also see where our own Ray Griffin was among those who went to the site with investigators. You do get around, Raymond! The circle DOES appear to be very similar to the English cases, for which I have not seen a decent explanation. But something tells me that a little intensive investigation will provide the "aha!" link. Unfortunately, no one seems to have the time nor the resources to conduct such an investigation. Pity. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Subject: Re: Meier (TO: Dan Drasin) Date: 14 May 90 06:25:00 GMT > Spoken like a true professional! Thanks, now if only I were! :-> -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f3.n1031.z9.FIDONET.ORG!David.Seikel Subject: Re: Sonic booms & UFO's Date: 2 May 90 20:08:00 GMT RH > boom, correct? One idea I've played around with in a few RH > SF stories is that of a teleportation device that operates RH > by swapping volumes of space. Theoretically, if such a RH > device is possible, it could be used to move air around the RH > UFO in such a manner as to not cause a sonic boom. Of RH > course, why do that; it would be much simpler to just RH > teleport the UFO itself to its destination. It could be more effiecient to teleport short distance many times than teleporting a long distance once. the DVS one -- David Seikel - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: David.Seikel@f3.n1031.z9.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************