Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 231 Monday, May 28th 1990 Today's Topics: (none) Re: T.S. Bennett Re: Sonic booms & UFO's Re: Skeptics UFO Newsletter CONDOR Re: Sonic booms & UFO's MJ12 Re: Skeptics UFO Newsletter Re: Mag-> UFO UNIVERSE Skeptics UFO Newsletter Field circles here... Re: Sonic booms & UFO's Re: Skeptics UFO Newsletter Re: Bible Messages Re: Skeptics UFO Newsletter Re: GB CIRCLE ET Re: T.S. Bennett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: isis!well!ddrasin (Dan Drasin) Subject: (none) Date: 27 May 90 22:11:22 GMT Misc. -+ From: paranet!f876.n115.z1.FIDONET.ORG!John.Burke -+ Jerry: The costumes for the blue guys did not correlate with what -+ Whitley wrote in his books... John, when a novelist's work is turned into a movie, the film director (not the original novelist) almost always has control of most of the creative details. Even assuming that the director *understands* the novel (which one can't necessarily assume), he will predictably take a great many liberties with it in compressing it into 90 minutes of screen time. No director would contract to do a picture without that creative freedom. A film director generally views novels as "raw material." --------------------------------------------------------------------- -+ From: paranet!f725.n209.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Daniel.Wisnosky -+ ... That means anything we don't know exists can't exist, being as -+ since we don't know it exists we don't know how to measure it. I -+ wonder how far we'd be if scientists durring the Age of Reason used -+ that kind of logic... Well, it's not that we don't know "x" *exists* -- people have reported direct experiences with "x" for ages. The problem is that today's scientists tend to assume that all people have the same kinds of sensitivities -- an assumption for which there is no scientific evidence whatsoever. They therefore tend to assume that people claiming certain unusual experiences are lying. Logic would dictate that medical research should be passionately interested in exploring the healing benefits of certain "power points." But of course you can't get research grants for things you can't capture or measure well enough to bring back and present to a grant committee, which is rarely composed of individuals who have had direct experiences with "x." --------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: paranet!f22.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Ecker -+ First and formost, there is NO Ecker vs. O'Leary....... -+ I reviewed Brians book, there was No name calling I am aware of.... My apologies, Don. "Name-calling" was too strong a term. What I was referring to was the use of "new age" as an apparent epithet. I was also trying to make a more general point about various branches of ufology not listening to each other (in some cases not even acknowledging each other's existence!). For example, one aspect of ufology that has developed rapidly over the past few years attempts to understand the psychic and psychological effects of UFO experiences, and to collect and discuss evidence on that level. This (paranet) network, for example, is very strong on the "nuts and bolts" and "government-political" level, but carries almost no information on other aspects of ufology that are being pursued as scientifically (if not more so) in other subcultures. -+ ... I still maintain his work has NOTHING to do with UFOlogy. New age thought is fine, but in factual research, I feel the book is lacking. I don't deny that the book has its weaknesses, but I contend that the astute ufologist may find some very valuable things there. For example, O'Leary refused to accept Cleve Backster's work as factual until he had had *first-hand* experience with the phenomenon. Now O'Leary is in a valid position to suggest that we might have a very valuable tool with which to more objectively study telepathic phenomena. And that has a *great deal* to do with ufology. Now we've got those mysterious wheat circles in proximity to Stonehenge and other apparent geomantic nodes. Well, the phenomenon of dowsing (on which O'Leary appears to have done his homework) has always been associated with geomancy. What could we learn by dowsing the wheat circles? The scientific approach would be to try it and find out. -+ While there is nothing wrong with the "Love, Light, and Shine ON" -+ stuff in itself, somehow I just do not think it goes with real hard -+ core UFO investigation. By that standard, toast (which is hard) should not go with jam (which is soft). Our world and our world view is changing very rapidly -- and the emergence of extraterrestrial/extradimensional life is only a part of a larger picture -- some of which is hard, and some soft. O'Leary has been trying, in his own way, to draw our attention to the connections between those aspects -- not to give any *one* aspect excessive importance. He has, by the way, done a lot more nuts-and- bolts research than may be apparent from his book. One problem with contemporary ufology is its own grim narrowness; I do think we need to broaden things a bit and let a little "love and light" enter into our whole process of understanding each other's points of view. Differences can be complementary rather than contradictory -- it's largely a matter of attitude. This is not to suggest eliminating rigorous scientific skepticism where it is appropriate -- only to suggest that our whole process of investigation can and must become much more comprehensive and more enlightened in a general sense. Dan Drasin ddrasin@well -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f102.n268.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Paul.Faeder Subject: Re: T.S. Bennett Date: 26 May 90 04:54:57 GMT In a message of <24 May 90 22:36:00>, Don Allen (1:114/37) writes: >MC>I am preparing to file a formal complaint within FidoNet against Mr. >Moderator and the BBS which has allowed Bennett unrestricted access to >the >conference until he can clean up his act and behave like an adult. If he >has >something of value to say against ParaNet, I am prepared to meet him >toe-to-toe to answer any and all allegations. > >Bravo..I really wish you would..If you've been following the FIDO >echo lately then you know it's gotten to be a real battle zone. About a month ago George Adam, the UFO echo moderator went to Czechoslovakia on vacation. He might not have returned yet. But FYI, his Fido address is 1:129/39. -- Paul Faeder - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Paul.Faeder@p0.f102.n268.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f5.n30223.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Charles.Mcelhinney Subject: Re: Sonic booms & UFO's Date: 26 May 90 04:20:00 GMT AREA: INFO.PARANET Regarding your booms in the night. It sounds pretty weird. About the only logical thing I can thing of is some kind of animal hitting the side of your house. Of course, this would have to be a rather large animal and a rather quick one to hit everyone elses house in the neighborhood. Also, he would have to be one smart animal to avoid detection. What do you have? Who knows...What do you think it is? What are the impressions that you get. Did anyone see anything at all? -- Charles Mcelhinney - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Charles.Mcelhinney@f5.n30223.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f5.n30223.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Charles.Mcelhinney Subject: Re: Skeptics UFO Newsletter Date: 26 May 90 04:24:00 GMT AREA: INFO.PARANET I read part of the book, but really never got around to finishing it. I got through most of the hypnosis parts of the book and it seemed that they changed the movie around a little bit. Streiber DID have two friends come up and stay that one weekend when the big light came (and Streiber was subsequently carried off and played around with) but Streiber ran into his rather large friend in the hall. Also, Streiber never went around shooting things nor did he hallucinate. He did, however, have a shotgun handy the whole time and he could've used it but didn't. Also, the book goes into some detail about how Streiber was abducted by aliens when he was a child and how he built something that burned down part of his house. The thing that he build was an inspiration from the aliens. You should read the book though. -- Charles Mcelhinney - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Charles.Mcelhinney@f5.n30223.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Subject: CONDOR Date: 25 May 90 06:42:00 GMT > I missed the last George Knapp special. Who exactly is Mr. Collins? > Also, does anyone know when Paranet will be back? Mr. Collins is Robert Collins, a confirmed scientist at Sandia Laboratories. ParaNet never left. Are you talking about ParaNet Alpha? -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Subject: Re: Sonic booms & UFO's Date: 25 May 90 06:45:00 GMT Frances: You were hit by FaFroTSkies!! Seriously, I don't know what that could be, except possibly large hailstones. But you said they hit the SIDE of the house? Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Subject: MJ12 Date: 25 May 90 06:49:00 GMT Hi, Jerry, and welcome back. > DOUBLE Hoax meaning that the hoax is a hoax? That the MJ12 doc is valid? Ahhhhhh, that's just what they WANT you to think! Seriously, William of Ockham said it best: "Do not multiply answers beyond necessity" Better yet, Ralph Kramden: "Norton, I know that you know that I know that you know that...." Jim PS - that "DOUBLE HOAX" bit didn't come from me, that was from Richard Salts. I just forwarded it into the right area. I still don't know what he meant by it. -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Subject: Re: Skeptics UFO Newsletter Date: 25 May 90 06:51:00 GMT > In a message to All <05-22-90 00:01> Jim Speiser wrote: > > -*True to form, Klass takes a rather mean swipe at Whitley > -*Strieber, asking rhetorically if he is "suffering > -*depression as a result of the critical reception accorded > -*his movie and most recent book [Majestic]." > > I just saw _Communion_ the other night. What a scary movie. Was there > any truth to that or was it "dramatic creation"? I haven't seen it yet, but it was supposedly done under the watchful eye of Whitley Streiber, so I can only assume it was fairly true to the book, and the book is allegedly true to the best of Whitley's knowledge... > * Origin: ParaNet. The World's Most Important Network! (1:115/876) I love your sentiments, but you're gonna hafta change that origin line. Ted Turner's got it copyrighted. Just stick "Computer" in before "Network" and you'll be ok. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Subject: Re: Mag-> UFO UNIVERSE Date: 25 May 90 06:53:00 GMT > story about the South African UFO crash - there's an important reason > why you never heard about it on ParaNet - it's pure BS. Get the latest > Arcturus Books catalog for the full story. I'm surprised that Antonio > would present that case in an enthusiastic light. Antonio's doing an about face on the South African crash (too late for publication, I'm afraid!) I talked to him a couple of weeks ago, and he agrees its bogus. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Subject: Skeptics UFO Newsletter Date: 25 May 90 06:55:00 GMT > The gist of it is that the Enquirer contacted Cook, not the other way > around, or involving Walters. But it still cannot be said that Walters "turned down" the Enquirer, right? -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Subject: Field circles here... Date: 25 May 90 07:03:00 GMT Jim: Thanks for that post. I, too, have a couple of questions. 1) If Becky had not fessed up, do you think it likely that the hoax would have eventually been detected anyway? 2) If not, what conclusions can we draw, if any, regarding the nature and detection of hoaxes in general? And what can we say about the circles in England? (Assuming they're a hoax, which I think they are). Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: Sonic booms & UFO's Date: 26 May 90 04:07:00 GMT I haven't a clue. In fact, a few months ago I heard a terrible racket that sounded llike someone was throwing a whole bunch of gravel against the side of my house. I rushed outside but there was no one around and there was no gravel or any damage to the house. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f876.n115.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jerry.Ablan Subject: Re: Skeptics UFO Newsletter Date: 24 May 90 16:51:00 GMT In a message to Jerry Ablan <05-23-90 19:13> John Burke wrote: -*Jerry: The costumes for the blue guys did not correlate -*with what Whitley wrote in his books. He said that the -*blue guys looked like the alien on the cover of -*_Transformation_. Those costumes looked like fake Jabba -*The Hutt outfits. Additionally, he never French-kissed an -*alien in any of his books, nor did he demonstrate such a -*cavalier attitude about the rectal probe. -- John Ok ok. But what kind of rating has Paranet given his books? Do we think they're true or what?? It was a wierd flick. And I did notice the apprehension surrounding the rectal probe. I guess he's never been in prison ;) -*(BTW - It's nice to be back on your board again!) Thanks alot, glad to have you back! Where have you been?? Jerry -- Jerry Ablan - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jerry.Ablan@f876.n115.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f876.n115.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jerry.Ablan Subject: Re: Bible Messages Date: 24 May 90 23:01:00 GMT In a message to All <05-22-90 18:47> postmaster@scicom.alphacdc.com wrote: -*Not trying to get on your case, but you don't seem to know -*much about -*physics. If I were capable of traveling FTL, I'd arrive -*before I left. -*Now that is what I call *SPEED*!! Even thoughts can't do -*that. 8-( Not necessarily... ;) -- Jerry Ablan - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jerry.Ablan@f876.n115.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f740.n115.z1.FIDONET.ORG!John.Burke Subject: Re: Skeptics UFO Newsletter Date: 25 May 90 00:43:14 GMT Jerry: Your old bbs # had no forwarding #. I recently asked Jim Speiser what your story was & he said that he thought you quit the network. I don't know what the official ParaNet rating of Whitley's story is, but the concensus around here seems to be "truth embellished with fiction". Anyway, this is where I've been: ... -- John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Burke@p0.f740.n115.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Pete.Porro Subject: Re: GB CIRCLE Date: 24 May 90 16:37:11 GMT As for sonic booms I believe they dissipate after 15 miles. So that should give you a range if you hear something, of a thirty mile circle give or take a couple of miles? I remember an article which had nothing to do with UFO's but did have something to do with agronomy (sp?) they were writing about different types of blights that made circles on the ground. One makes silver dollar size collections (not really important) that are nearly perfect circles. There are other wheat fungus related problems that make bigger patches. Just in case this turns out to be a natural occurance, maybe thinking of micro-organisms or other possible reasons might be included in ones investigations. -- Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Pete.Porro Subject: ET Date: 24 May 90 17:30:54 GMT ET echo is alive and well. This is in response to at least three people who have asked what happened to it. I'm not positive who the moderator is right now, or where it is hubbed since Linda took a vacation. But just like UFO's I know it's out there, I just don't know where it's comming from... 8*) -- Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f204.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Kurt.Lochner Subject: Re: T.S. Bennett Date: 25 May 90 18:02:00 GMT Well, I've been rattling off several letters a day back to Timmy, and I'm just about to cut him off. Apparently he still prefers his "bombing runs", with little regard to the content of the discussions that he interferes with. And talk about disinformation! Timmy still insists that Alternative 3 is a factual account, and that anyone who disagrees with him is a government agent trying to sabotage him. He refuses to respond to any allegations that he was removed from ParaNet for obnoxious behavior. And I believe that his role on the UFO echos IS to disinform and disrupt any meaningful conversation. A lawsuit against him? That almost sounds too good to be true... -- Kurt Lochner - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Kurt.Lochner@f204.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************