Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 242 Sunday, June 10th 1990 Today's Topics: UFO Questionaire Press Release / UFO Spotlight Re: SURVEY treaty UFO Questionaire Re: Sonic booms & UFO's Re: serious heat Re: The Real Facts Re: The Real Facts Re: serious heat Recent Developments Gene Huff replies to charges from Cooper Huff Part II Huff Part III - Conclusion THEM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f740.n115.z1.FIDONET.ORG!John.Burke Subject: UFO Questionaire Date: 6 Jun 90 01:56:55 GMT : I wanted to check my replies against the questions to make sure I had the "right" answers, but the questionaire already scrolled off this board. Anyway, here goes: 1-3, 2-1, 3-2, 4-2, 5-3, 6-1, 7-3, 8-1, 9-2, 10-4, 11-3, 12-4, 13-1, 14-2, 15-4, 16-2 (I think - illegible overwrite), 17-4, 18-1, 19-1, 20-3, 21-4, 22-1, 23-3, 24-4, 25-1, 26-2, 27-1, 28-1, 29-4, 30-2. UFOs appear to be intelligently-controlled, solid objects, whose "pilots" are "low-profiled" to the point of being deceptive. I don't think that's something we should be paranoid about though, because if they were going to do something "bad" to us, they would have done it already, just like network TV, Congress, the IRS, and the FidoNet UFO Echo. :-) BTW, who grades this? -- John -- John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Burke@p0.f740.n115.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Tyson.Mitchiner Subject: Press Release / UFO Spotlight Date: 6 Jun 90 05:20:00 GMT What network will carry "UFO Spotlight"? Or will it just be in California, and not broadcasted on FOX, CBS, NNBC ABC, PBS, etc? -- Tyson Mitchiner - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Tyson.Mitchiner@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Pete.Porro Subject: Re: SURVEY Date: 5 Jun 90 19:51:47 GMT Point/Question covers it all quite well. Something is out there. It has been seen and reported all over the planet. Something has been phtographed. Radar Sightings are confirmed. #29 says it. If it flys and it can't be identified it's a UFO... Now back to the science and research, what are all these people seeing? WHY? I'm still waiting for a reasonable solid answer. -- Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f701.n362.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Robin.Gober Subject: treaty Date: 4 Jun 90 06:36:27 GMT on 24-may-90 07:46am The ol'man wrote; Consider the inverse: if government had npotified the people that ETs were amoung us and then some of the stuff that is currently going on had been pinned onthe ETs the citizens would demand the government stop it to the best of their ability.......So they agree to "mutual benefit" treaty with the Government to keep the Government off their backs. .... my answer You know the more I get into these I realize that my view is altered because of how I got into this area. As you probaly know I have been dealing with my Post-traumatic Stress Disorder. Since my contac with these guys is what brought about my PTSD. I probaly will have a hard time believeing that they would worry about what we can do to them. I What I have to do is take my view of these guys when I was a young child and match it to what I know now. I the adult have no real fear of them. But the young boy in me doesn't ever want to trust them. Well I am out of time later.... -- Robin Gober - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Robin.Gober@p0.f701.n362.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p5.f701.n362.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Frances.Jones Subject: UFO Questionaire Date: 3 Jun 90 23:46:41 GMT >------------------------------------------------------- >1. Some flying saucers have tried to communicate with us. >Probably true >2. All UFO reports can be explained either as well understood happenings >or as hoaxes. definatley false >3. The Air Force has done an adequate job of investigation of UFO >reports and UFOs generally. probably true, since not all that they have learned has ever been made public. > 4. No actual, physical evidence has ever been obtained from a UFO. Probably false >5. A government agency maintains a Top Secret file of UFO reports that >are deliberately withheld from the public. probably true >6. No airline pilots have seen UFOs. Definatley false > >7. Most people would not report seeing a UFO for fear of losing a job. Probably false > >8. No authentic photographs have ever been taken of UFOs. probably false > >9. Persons who believe they have communicated with visitors from outer >space are mentally ill. probably false > >10. The Air Force was told to explain all UFO sightings reported to them >as natural or man-made happenings or events. probably true > >11. Earth has been visited at least once in its history by beings from >another world. probably true > >12. The government should spend more money than it does now to study >what UFOs are and where they come from. probably false, Who knows how much they are already spending. They certainly would not make the amount public since they deny their existence. > >13. Intelligent forms of life cannot exist elsewhere in the universe. definatley false > >14. Flying saucers can be explained scientifically without any important >new discoveries. definately false > >15. Some UFOs have landed and left marks in the ground. probably true > >16. Most UFOs are due to secret defense projects, either ours or another >country's. probably false > >17. UFOs are reported throughout the world. definately true > >18. The government has done a good job of examining UFO reports. probably false. > >19. There have never been any UFO sightings in the Soviet Union. probably false > >20. People want to believe that life exists elsewhere than on Earth. probably true > >21. There have been good radar reports of UFOs. definately true > >22. There is no government secrecy about UFOs. definately false > >23. People have seen space ships that have not come from this planet. definately true > >24. Some UFO reports have come from astronomers. definately true > >25. Even the most unusual UFO report could be explained by the laws of >science if we knew enough about science. probably false > >26. People who do *not* believe in flying saucers must be stupid. definately false. They simply have not seen the evidence. > >27. UFO reports have not been taken seriously by any government agency. probably false. > >28. Government secrecy about UFOs is an idea made up by newspapers. probably false > >29. Science has established that there are such things as "Unidentified >Flying Objects." probably true > >30. Abduction reports are the result of hallucinations. probably false > >Finally, what do you believe UFOs to be? I feel that there are intelligent life forms, other than ours, on other planets. They are possibly...no, probably very far ahead of us in technology of most things, but possibly very far behind us in the technology of others. I also feel that they have visited our planet before, are doing so now, and will continue to do so in the future. FJ -- Frances Jones - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Frances.Jones@p5.f701.n362.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p5.f701.n362.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Frances.Jones Subject: Re: Sonic booms & UFO's Date: 4 Jun 90 00:04:37 GMT In a message of <30 May 90 16:05:00>, Jim Delton (1:114/37) writes: >It happened at night, around 9 PM. I'm not aware of any neighboors >hearing anything. With my experience, the maajority of the neighborhood heard the same thing I did, only at different times. Approximately 1 to 2 minutes apart. FJ -- Frances Jones - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Frances.Jones@p5.f701.n362.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f5.n30223.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Gene.Gross Subject: Re: serious heat Date: 6 Jun 90 07:46:00 GMT Jim: Called a Colonel friend of mine and have not been able to confirm anything about a shooting of aliens at Fort Dix. Wish TSB would provide some evidence to support his statements. My friend thinks this is merely a hoax. If I find out anymore about this, I'll post it. -- Gene Gross - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Gene.Gross@f5.n30223.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f5.n30223.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Gene.Gross Subject: Re: The Real Facts Date: 6 Jun 90 08:16:00 GMT Don: Sounds like G.A. is working for an outfit that I left a long time ago--they told where I could go and what I could do. This is getting a bit out of the ballpark. Frankly, to h##l with 'em. Let's move this on down the road and into the 21st Century. When we going to start our own cable channel!? -- Gene Gross -- Gene Gross - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Gene.Gross@f5.n30223.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f5.n30223.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Gene.Gross Subject: Re: The Real Facts Date: 6 Jun 90 08:31:00 GMT how in the world is this a subtle ad for Paranet!!? Give me a break! Hey, I have absolute proof that UFOs are not only real, but there are these wonderful aliens who have come to serve mankind!! Problem is I can't tell you where the files are because of some dumba## gag order from the moderator. And everyone is out there saying, "Yeah right, bozo!" This just frost my buns! -- Gene "Steam off for now" Gross -- Gene Gross - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Gene.Gross@f5.n30223.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Subject: Re: serious heat Date: 7 Jun 90 04:06:00 GMT > Jim: > Called a Colonel friend of mine and have not been able to confirm > anything about a shooting of aliens at Fort Dix. Wish TSB would provide > some evidence to support his statements. My friend thinks this is > merely a hoax. If I find out anymore about this, I'll post it. Thanks, Gene. TSB will trot out a 1569 form, no doubt, but anyone in the military can get their hands on one of them. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f12.n265.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Kay.Mclaughlin Subject: Recent Developments Date: 7 Jun 90 23:04:56 GMT Jim, I saw the Joan Rivers show that day. I didn't get the name of the "Implant victim". Joan when looking at it said it looked like a little black box. The guy said that it had microscopic wires sticking out from it. He said it came out of his lower abdominal area (wouldn't be specific). Basically thats all I remember, I was half watching as I was doing somthing else at the time. Hope this helps, I know it's not much. Kay -- Kay Mclaughlin - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Kay.Mclaughlin@p0.f12.n265.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f0.n9.z9.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin Subject: Gene Huff replies to charges from Cooper Date: 7 Jun 90 23:46:00 GMT DATE OF UPLOAD: June 7, 1990 ORIGIN OF UPLOAD: Gene Huff CONTRIBUTED BY: Gene Huff ======================================================== NOTE: THESE FILES ARE NOT FOR REDISTRIBUTION OUTSIDE OF THE PARANET INFORMATION SERVICE NETWORK ======================================================== June 7, 1990 Recently ParaNet received a call from Gene Huff, Las Vegas real estate appraiser and close friend of Robert Lazar, stating that he wished to place a clarification on ParaNet for the record regarding Lazar's recent felony indictment on a count of Pandering in Las Vegas, Nevada by the Clark County Sheriff's Department. Lazar, in a public statement made on KLAS-TV in April, admittedly told on camera that he had been involved in a brothel in the Las Vegas area by assisting in the installation of computer and security equipment. Shortly after that, following an investigation by authorities, charges were brought against Lazar. He could get up to five years if convicted. The big question now is: Does this damage Lazar's credibility along with KLAS-TV reporter George Knapp, who featured Lazar on a news special in November 1989? According to Huff and the statement that follows, the answer is a big no. What has further clouded the issue has been Bill Cooper's attacks on Lazar and Knapp for their participation in what Cooper calls "government disinformation activity." Cooper, a self-styled UFO "guru" who claims to have seen super-secret UFO documents aboard a Navy ship while enlisted in the early 1970s, has made various statements about Lazar, Lear, Knapp and a host of other UFO researchers being government agents intent on disinforming the public. The following is a letter received via ParaFAX on June 4, 1990 from Gene Huff. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Mike, I am a Las Vegas real estate appraiser and I have known Bob Lazar since late 1985, John Lear since mid-1988, and George Knapp since early 1989. I thought some of the members of your service [ParaNet] might need some actual FACTS regarding some of the accusations and allegations made by Milton W. Cooper. I've written the following pages which you may use, if you choose to do so. MILTON W. COOPER IS A LIAR. Period. So Cooper learned poker from granny and love from Annie, huh? Too bad he didn't learn anything from George Washington and the cherry tree briefing. The actual story of the "Bob Lazar- prostitution connection" is as follows: Bob Lazar and his late first wife, Carol, owned a legal brothel in northern Nevada during the early 1980's, so Bob was familiar with the brothel business. Recently, he ran into a hooker who was running a small brothel here in Las Vegas. Bob gave her a bunch of ideas on how she could efficiently run her business. She asked him to help her and said she would pay him for his consultation. I guess this kind of parallels attorneys receiving their fees from clients with questionable vocations, but I won't argue that point here. He helped her by installing a computer, doing some computer programming, accounting, installing security cameras and monitors, etc. When all of the systems were running smoothly, Bob was going to leave as he felt he had already received money commensurate with what he felt he had contributed. She offered him money just to stay around and do nothing, which seemed strange, but Bob was going to part ways anyway, and the worst thing that could have happened, happened. this hooker had fallen madly in love with Bob. In a serious talk, she made her feelings known to him. She asked how sexually attractive she was to him on a scale from 1 to 10. Bob "Mr. Compassion" Lazar told her that, to him, she was a 1. She cried for a day and a half. This news was impossible to take for a woman who had for years had men calling her on a daily basis offering to pay her money to have sex with her. As it ends up, she is a Las Vegas Metro Vice, FBI, and DEA informant. Now she has implicated him as being much more involved than he actually was, for obvious motives. He has not yet been charged, but with her connections, it appears certain that he will be. this was all exposed by Bob Lazar ON TELEVISION here in Las Vegas. This required no investigation by Cooper or the knuckleheads from vice. There is much more to this story which is better saved until Bob Lazar's freedom is certain. The story of Bob Lazar running a drug lab is totally false. He is currently doing some research at a small, privately funded lab here in Las Vegas. The lab was recently randomly visited by one active duty Las Vegas cop, and another ex-Las Vegas cop who both witnessed that nothing illegal or as ludicrous as drug manufacturing was going on there. Naturally, Sherlock Cooper didn't know this. These are just two more classic examples of Cooper misinterpreting an elementary body of information and jumbling it to fit his distorted view of the world around him. This leaves only Cooper to interpret what is "truth" while draped in an American flag. Cooper labels his opponents as part of a government band of conspirators, which is anyone who doesn't believe him, disagrees with him, or actually knows and understands the true source of his information, which in turn, is anyone who has ever heard him speak or has read what he has written. Cooper speaks as though Bob Lazar and John Lear are one item. These are two separate men with very different ideas. Bob Lazar's story is not phony, and he is not part of a band of government agents. I knew him before he met John Lear, and before he worked at S 4. I was with him the first and second times he met Lear and they had no prior contact before that. As far as one of them working for the other, what a joke. I was present at both of Bob Lazar's polygraph sessions. These were prior to George Knapp's November 1989 special. the first night included two polygraphs with the same identical questions being asked both times. He passed one and failed on. This is why the results were considered inconclusive by the first polygrapher and subsequent tests were suggested BY THE POLYGRAPHER. The second test was done at a completely different company, about a month later. Similar, but different questions were asked and Bob Lazar passed. The polygraphs from the second night were then reviewed by another polygrapher who also agreed that he had passed. The polygraphs from the second night were then sent to a third polygrapher in San Francisco, who was of the opinion that the Federal government wouldn't lie about something like this, and he said he thought the results were inconclusive. So to be fair, George Knapp said the results were inconclusive. Actually, four polygraphers reviewed the two night's tests. One polygrapher stated the first night's tests were inconclusive. Two polygraphers stated that he had passed the second night's tests, and one polygrapher thought the second night's tests were inconclusive. This doesn't sound like as big of a failure as Cooper makes it, does it? The problem with Cooper's polygraph challenge is two-fold. First, one of those challenged want to associate publicly or privately with Cooper. Second, when someone actually believes their lies, they register as truth on the polygraph. So for obvious reasons, there is nothing to be gained by those challenged. Although you must admit, Cooper and a polygraph is an amusing thought. Bob Lazar does NOT develop dosimeter badges at Los Alamos and Sandia labs. He manufactures and repairs alpha radiation probes. He even owns a patent on one particular kind. Even an amateur sleuth like Cooper could have access to that information. Cooper is on the record on the Billy Goodman show as stating that he checked Bob Lazar out, and that what Bob Lazar was stating was true. (Not that Bob Lazar cared what Cooper thought.) I guess Cooper has a lot of trouble with these sudden changes of mind. Cooper overstated his exposure to Bob Lazar via John Lear. Bob met Cooper twice at Lear's house. Kris, Bob's sister-in-law, was with him one time, and they both came home of the opinion that Cooper was crazy. The second time, I was invited but declined since it appeared obvious to me that Cooper had taken the Kennedy assassination information from the film "Dallas Revisited," narrated by Lars Hansen, and I did not want to associate with Cooper in public, or privately. Bob went as a favor to John Lear and although can't remember if anyone accompanied him, his opinion of Cooper didn't change. Cooper acts as though Lear and Lazar were "leaking" information to him. Remember, only recently has Cooper become the "World's Leading Authority on UFOs." Back then he was just a sailor who said he saw a craft when he was in the Navy, no one worthy of "leaking" anything to. And in reality that's all that Cooper WASN'T and ISN'T important enough to perform for, even in a joking manner. He shouldn't flatter himself in thinking that the government would launch an attack on him. No one needs to discredit Cooper, he has discredited himself. Those groups that want to march to Washington to get amnesty for secret project participants who want to speak out, had better not go there with Cooper. Anyone that can access the classified library (and there are thousands nationwide), knows that many of the dates and events Cooper speaks about are inaccurate. And the events and dates that are accurate have generally been stated on the record by others BEFORE Cooper is on the record as having stated them. Anyway, he'd get laughed out of Washington. This Cooper controversy appears to pretty much be a regional issue in the West and Southwest U.S., thanks to the Billy Goodman show, and now Cooper has turned on him, too. Authors and researchers from all over the world have come to Las Vegas and met Bob Lazar. The one common denominator that links all of them is that they all know of at least one instance in which they don't believe Cooper, either. This list of people includes, but is certainly not limited to, Timothy Goode, Linda Howe, Jacques' Vallee', Budd Hopkins, Bill Moore, etc. Incidentally, Bob Lazar chose not to meet with Bill Moore. Within the first 15 minutes George Knapp and I talked to Moore, Moore admitted not only lying and giving out disinformation, he also said that he was the one who had stolen the missing "metal" from the Billy Meier's investigators. He said he had it analyzed and it could have been made here on Earth. Since he was a self professed liar and thief, Bob Lazar declined to meet him. We still wonder why he didn't let the stolen Meier's metal resurface if it was a fake. Maybe he lied about that, too. Anyway, it's a shame, because he's an intelligent man and he could be a positive force. Cooper's claims about Project Excalibur and O.H. Krill will be covered in an upcoming issue of UFO Magazine so I won't go into that here. I have seen polaroid pictures of Falcon and Condor from the set of the Fox Television Network a couple of years ago. I don't know if their segments were taped or live, however, these pictures were taken by two guys who had access to the set. I did not recognize either of the gentlemen, but neither was John Lear. If someone wanted to investigate whether or not John Lear is Condor, I suggest that someone find out from the producers of the show when Falcon and Condor did their segments. At that time, John Lear was flying for American Trans Air as an L-1011 captain on flights to Hawaii, Germany, etc. The flight logs should at least be able to narrow down whether Lear was in the air or for that matter even in this country at the time Falcon and Condor were present. Although I personally find it hard to believe that anyone would care enough one way or another to go through that much trouble. Since George Knapp's May 1990 special news segments, Cooper has been recorded on audio tape in a conversation with a Las Vegas resident as saying that he's so pissed that Lear exposed him as lying about the O.H. Krill papers that if Lear were in front of him right then, he'd "Shoot the son of a bitch." Yet through all of Cooper's attacks on Lear, Lear still insists that Cooper had an original contribution. If that's true, it's unfortunate because it has now been lost because of Cooper's subsequent actions. This is a waste because even though Cooper is an amateurish writer (as am I), he is a semi-adequate public speaker who arouses people. If people will take Cooper's advice and read and investigator for themselves, I'm sure they'll make their own decisions on Cooper soon enough. George Knapp was not AFRAID to call Cooper prior to his special. Knapp had previously interviewed Cooper and had apparently heard enough back then. Cooper got his rightful share of time in both of Knapp's specials. George Knapp's career is not in danger. Knapp knows more about Lazar than does the general public, which includes Cooper. Knapp is just required to establish Lazar's credentials before moving on to some of the more exciting subjects Bob Lazar has commented on. Hopefully Knapp will make his May 1990 news segments into an expanded special so we can possibly hear some more testimony as to Cooper's credibility. Cooper has publicly stated that he will tell his version of the show of force by the gray aliens in central Nevada in 1979 in his upcoming book. I hope it's not the same story Bob Lazar and I told on the Billy Goodman show in 1989. I would hate for that story to have mysteriously made it from the radio in 1989 all the way back to the reports Cooper allegedly read between 1970 and 1973. After all, this event hadn't even happened yet. Not even Cooper could try that, could he? Through all of this I have noticed only one solid connection with Cooper and the Nixon Administration and that is that both Milton W. Cooper and Richard M. Nixon both have upper lips which perspire profusely when they're lying. I guess the most amusing thing that has happened in the last two years is that know Cooper has suddenly become a tough guy, at least through his eyes. He calls everyone else wimps, and liars, and traitors. I and many others are of the opinion that if they cast for the part of WIMPY in the broadway version of POPEYE, Cooper would be a lock for the part. And if indeed information, not money, is the power of the 90's, Cooper will keep "borrowing" from everyone involved, but don't worry, he'll gladly pay you Tuesday. When all of the dust has settled, I don't think Milton W. Cooper's nickname will any longer be Bill. I think it could be Willie or probably even "Uncle Miltie," after all if the shoe fits, right? Gene Huff -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:209/722 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f0.n9.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: 'W. K. (Bill) Gorman' <34AEJ7D@cmuvm.bitnet> Subject: THEM Date: 8 Jun 90 15:26:59 GMT Has anyone considered the following two hypotheses as explanations for the presence of UFOs, assuming for the moment that they are artifacts created/guided by some intelligence at least equal to our own? 1. Sightseers. It may be that Earth has some very unique experiences to offer along these lines, which can only be experienced/appreciated from the air. Any of you who are pilots will know what I mean. 2. Military, temporarily based here for purposes not directly involving Earth. This could parallel what we did in the Pacific during WWII, when bombers directed against Japan were based on islands populated by scientifically unsophisticated natives. The impact on these native peoples was great, but for the most part purely incidental to our war effort. Could we be in the same position? Abductions, etc., might then be explaonable as troop misconduct, in the same manner that instances of inappropriate behavior arise around every military installation, in peace or war, to some degree. In either case (1) or (2) I submit that we are no more in a position to judge 'their' capabilities, level of technology or mindset than were the natives on those long-ago islands able to understand the bombers and their crews. If I recall correctly, they tended to interpret them in terms of their own level of technology/mythology. Aren't we doing the same by presuming that 'they' are here for reasons having anything at all to do with us directly? Just a few thoughts to fan the flames... :-) ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************