Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 250 Friday, June 22nd 1990 Today's Topics: Re: Triangular UFO? Re: An Open Letter to Mr. Ed Re: Stealth/Area 51 Re: An Open Letter to Mr. Ed Re: An Open Letter to Mr. Ed New User Re: An Open Letter to Mr. Ed Re: Ed Walters/Gulf Breeze Re: An Open Letter to Mr. Ed Re: More Ill Breeze Billy Goodman's Radio Show Robertson Panel Tab A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG!John.Hicks Subject: Re: Triangular UFO? Date: 17 Jun 90 18:18:01 GMT > That's not true. Well, that's what he said, but as to what he actually meant, I don't know. jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG!John.Hicks Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Mr. Ed Date: 17 Jun 90 18:23:02 GMT > ParaNet is not yelling "Hoax," Jim Speiser is. As to why Bruce > takes the stand he does, you'll have to ask him. Specifically, > ask him why he is so willing to ignore negative evidence. (I > have; his answer was because of the weight of the positive > evidence. In other words, he does not deny the existence of > negative evidence). He said, and I agree with him, that Ed's pictures certainly may be a hoax that we haven't figured out yet. A couple of the pictures are real brain- benders to try to figure out a feasible hoax process, especially the Shoreline Park picture I mentioned. A model just won't work here. jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG!John.Hicks Subject: Re: Stealth/Area 51 Date: 17 Jun 90 18:23:03 GMT > Also, it emitted so much radiation that it was really dangerous, > esp. if > it were to not work, and crash somewhere... Yeah. I also read that someone suggested that they just *fly* it over Russia. jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Mr. Ed Date: 18 Jun 90 08:36:00 GMT JB>..I think Dr. Bruce has a lot more at stake in this case than Ed does. JB> If it's ever exposed as a hoax, Macabee will end up looking like a real JB> pinhead. Let's face it, he's already past the point of no return. JB> He can't do a 180 on this case without hurting his credibility. Could be...but Bruce has put *alot* on the line with this case.. -Why stake your entire reputation on a case UNLESS you really believe in it? -Forget about ED and Willy Smith for a minute..Forget about all the alleged improprieties with MUFON..forget all the back-and-forth stuff about hoaxed photos... That STILL leaves *other* eye witnessess...has ANYONE bothered to follow up on THEM????? -Don Allen- -- Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Allen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Don.Allen Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Mr. Ed Date: 18 Jun 90 09:35:00 GMT JS> Admittedly. I don't know what was going through Smith's head, but it sure JS> was a bonehead maneuver. Are you going to let that incident determine JS> this case for you? Not at all..but that element fiqures in pretty strong..I was just noting it. JS> The closest we've come to an investigator was when John Hicks went to the JS> NUFOC and talked at length with the principals. His excellent report JS> appeared here a week ago. I saw nothing in that report, however, to change JS> my mind. As an entity, ParaNet has no investigators, and no "opinion." JS> Each of us speaks for ourselves. (We'd like to develop a team of official JS> investigators, but that costs money to do correctly, and apparently that's JS> not in the cards at this time). My opinion is based on the available JS> photos, and the opinions of some experts Mike and I and others have been in JS> contact with. Ok,but wait..what about Robert Klinn? I thought he...on never mind..it HAS been a rough 3 months. Let me ask you Jim..have you ever talked to anyone *other* than Mr Ed, in Gulfbreeze who has seen the same phenomena? JS> Suffice it to say that it is not unknown in UFO history for a hoax JS> sighting to precipitate a rash of near-hysterical, "me-too" sightings by JS> otherwise sincere, honest folk. Its been PROVEN to happen, by an experiment JS> conducted in England a few years back. Granted..but what have over 100 people have to GAIN by doing so? -Again..the issue as it seems to me is..WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE WITNESSED SIGHTINGS?????? If you forget about Ed..forget about the controversy over the photos..you still are left with quite a few people who HAVE seen something. Are we to wave THEM aside and call Mr Ed a hoaxter? Who stands to benefit from calling this a HOAX? John Hicks posted a few weeks back, something about a buoy marker off the Gulf of Mexico that wasn't even on the deep water charts..hmmmmm...I smell a deep water rat here.. What would it take for me to consider this a hoax? - Bruce Maccabee to come out and say that he KNEW all along What I would consider for GB to be a hoax: - Mr Ed to come right out and say it. - ALL the witnessess to have been engaged in active hoaxing. - The photos are explained without a shadow of a doubt as to HOW they were created so masterfully. I can accept that Ed was pulling our leg all along.. I can even accept that he pulled MUFON's leg as well. I can accept that he got some really EXPERT photographer to have hoaxed the photos. He would have HAD to as Ed is a real FUTZ with a camera (ask John). I do,however, have a really difficult time of swallowing the party line that it was ALL a Hoax. Re-reading your messages, I couldn't help but notice your off-hand remarks about how you view MUFON's credibility in all this. It's my opinion, that we should ignore Ed, and instead concentrate on all those witnesses..to me THAT is where we shoulda been looking all along. I feel that there IS a real phenomena in all of this and the "dog and pony" show around Ed Walters is detracting away it. To yell hoax at this point,without going through ALL the motions is premature to say the least. I certainly haven't heard anyone yell HOAX over the 800+ sightings in Brussels yet. What does it take to put this dog to rest? Hardcopy film or video (of course,there's bound to be those who will say ALL the film and videos have been hoaxed). You tell me..maybe we can work out something as I only live a good 4 or so hours drive away from GB, and I like you want to know for sure. -Don Allen- -- Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Allen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p5.f701.n362.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Frances.Jones Subject: New User Date: 12 Jun 90 20:43:13 GMT In a message of <09 Jun 90 23:49:02>, John Hicks (1:363/29) writes: > One BBS to call is a Fidonet board in Daytona Beach. The Batcave >904-258-9022. The sysop is Forrest Egan, who's in my local net. Couldn't >find a net board in New Smyrna though. > If she's interested in ParaNet I could probably cajole Forrest into >joining up. > jbh Thanks. My brother is up here now from that same area and he, also, is interested in becoming a user. Thanks for the info and I will be typing at you later. FJ -- Frances Jones - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Frances.Jones@p5.f701.n362.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Speiser Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Mr. Ed Date: 20 Jun 90 01:31:00 GMT OK, Don, you're on. Get just one - I repeat, JUST ONE - photo of an Ed-like object from ANYONE who is willing to go on record with their real name as having taken the photo, and who has no obvious ties to Ed Walters. Surely, with so many witnesses, with Ed having so many photo opportunities, there must be ONE legit photo outside of his sphere of influence. Send it to me and I'll submit it for evaluation to a seasoned photoanalyst (whose name I may have to provide you in private mail). Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: Ed Walters/Gulf Breeze Date: 20 Jun 90 02:56:00 GMT RE: the Shoreline Park polaroids I thought that that picture was of some fuzzy light? Is it of something indentifable? -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Jim.Delton Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Mr. Ed Date: 20 Jun 90 03:03:00 GMT I may have missed something, but as I recall the only person who seems to have any photos that are detailed enough to amount to anything more then fuzzy lights is Mr. Ed. So there are 100 other people who got caught up in the excitment of looking at lights in the sky, they may all be perfectly honest and perfectly mistaken. I has happened before with rocket/satelite rentries. When Mr. Ed had to use a truely dificult to hoax camera setup, the Nimslo 35 mm, he was not able to do any better then some extremely fuzzy shots of some lights and they didn't look anything like the "classic" GB light patterns. With that camera he suddenly "discovered" a new shape of UFO. Funny how that worked out. In my mind the totallity of the evidence simply adds up to hoax, there are just to many inconsistancies in the "evidence" and too many things about the photos don't ring true to my eyeball. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f725.n209.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Tim.Hamewka Subject: Re: More Ill Breeze Date: 19 Jun 90 20:38:47 GMT But how are we to get scientists/science involved. Most scientists are notoriously conservative as far as making statements on anything. Even if they were to begin studying the evidence, it would be years before they attempted to make any kind of statement concerning the UFO phenomenon. Most scientists won't even discuss the topic of UFOs for fear of ridicule by their peers, which in turn would ruin their credibility. To get science seriously interested in the investigation of UFO phenomena, would require a collective attitude adjustment of the entire scientific community, and I don't think that is going to happen for a long time. Which means, it is up to the lay people to gather the information and just do the best they can, and hope that somewhere out there, there are still some pioneers, such as Jacques Vallee, who are willing to take a chance. -- Tim Hamewka - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Tim.Hamewka@f725.n209.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f1.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin Subject: Billy Goodman's Radio Show Date: 20 Jun 90 01:16:00 GMT > From: Jim Shaffer Jr <72750.2335@compuserve.com> > > Does anyone know of any radio stations in or near > Pennsylvania that are > going to broadcast Billy Goodman's radio show? I'd need to > know the > frequencies, because I can't imagine any stations that I > listen to on > a regular basis carrying it. Any info. anyone could give > me would be > greatly appreciated. I have not heard that anyone will be doing this. The last that I heard was that Goodman failed in getting a satellite feed for his syndicated program. He is back on the air at KVEG in Las Vegas in a limited capacity. The arrangement that I have heard about is that he is now doing an entertainment show about happenings around the Las Vegas area. He is highly restricted in his ability to broadcast discussion regarding UFOs. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f1.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paranet!f1.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin Subject: Robertson Panel Tab A Date: 20 Jun 90 01:22:00 GMT DATE OF UPLOAD: June 18, 1990 ORIGIN OF UPLOAD: ParaNet Administration/Los Angeles, CA CONTRIBUTED BY: ======================================================== THIS FILE WAS PREPARED BY PARANET ALPHA -- PARANET INFORMATION SERVICE 1-714-985-0666 9600 BAUD 1-714-982-2254 VOICE LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA NOTE: THESE FILES ARE NOT FOR REDISTRIBUTION OUTSIDE OF THE PARANET INFORMATION SERVICE NETWORK ======================================================== The following file contains what appears to be Tab A of the findings of the Robertson Panel in 1953. The Robertson Panel was a highly controversial meeting which was conducted under the veil of a scientific panel, however it was later reported that the Central Intelligence Agency actually conducted and possibly influenced the panel's findings, and that the whole purpose was mainly for the benefit of public relations. Although the document appears to be authentic, ParaNet strongly advises that the reader of this document take into consideration the possibility that it is a fake consistent with the rumors that have circulated among the UFO community over the years that the CIA actually released a "dummy" document to conceal the real findings of the panel. ================================================================= TAB A 1. Motion Pictures, Trementon, Utah This case involves the sighting and photographing (Kodachrome Film) of ten bright lights moving across the sky on 2 July 1952 in rough formation. Source is a Chief Photographer's Mate, USN, with 17 years photographic experience. The local time was 1110; weather conditions bright, clear, no clouds. Objects appeared to be "milling about" while traveling in a westerly direction across the sky. Source was driving along the road when the sighting occurred. He stopped the car and photographed the event with his personal camera. Toward the end of the sighting, one object separated from the rest and reversed course across the sky. Status: ATIC Photographic Laboratory examination of the film resulted in following conclusions: a. 10 objects, all alike in movement and size. b. Decidedly improbable that they are birds or balloons. c. Exact nature cannot be determined, because they are visible only as small spots of light. It can be deduced, however, that they are either non-spherical in shape and similar to bright metal in reflectance or else variably self-luminous. Objects which follow similar courses show similar brightness fluctuations which could be caused by their taking similar flight attitudes. d. Apparently a coordination of movement to some extent among these objects. They seem to move in formations which are probably 3-dimensional in arrangement. e. The movements suggest flight paths consisting of skew curves in space. f. The single object which reversed course remained reasonably uniform in brightness. It followed a nearly straight line path with reasonable uniformity of motion at an angular velocity of about 2.1 degrees per second. (This is equivalent to the following speeds: 37 mph @ 500 yards; 75 mph @ 1000 yards; 375 mph @ 5000 yards; 758 mph @ 10,000 yards; etc.). g. It would probably be extremely difficult to imitate this photography for fraudulent purposes. This film is currently under examination by the U.S. Navy Photo Interpretation Laboratory, Anacostia. Estimated completion date: 15 January 1953. 2. Bright Light sighted from Presque Isle and Limestone Air Force Bases, [unknown] This sighting occurred the night of 10-11 October 1952 from 2300 to 0300 local time, by observers at the weather stations at these Air Force Bases. The description of the light was "circular orange object with four green lights nearby." Theodolites sightings of elevation and azimuth were obtained. Weather was clear. Status: A comparison of observed azimuths and elevations of the supposed object with the calculated position and relative motion of the planet Jupiter leave little doubt that the observed object was actually Jupiter. 3. Reported Sightings of a Strange Object in Florida This sighting was reported by a Boy Scoutmaster to have occurred at 2150 local time on 19 August 1952 near West Palm Beach, Florida. According to the story given, the source was driving along deserted road in his car, together with four Boy Scouts. Sighting a strange light, source stopped the car, cautioned the boys to wait, and entered the palmetto undergrowth alone. When he did not return in a few minutes, and witnessing some strange lights in the vicinity of the scoutmaster, the boys went for help, returning with a deputy sheriff. The scoutmaster appeared, badly firghtened, slightly burned on the forearms. His story was that he had seen a large curcular object about eight feet over his head which had released a "fire ball" which descended on him. He stated that he had thrown himself upon the ground and "blacked out." There were various other [unknown] to the story. His cap was burned slightly and samples of grass taken from the immediate vicinity of the "sighting" differed strangely in appearance from samples 75 yards away. Status: The background of the source indicates an unsavory personal reputation and criminal record, resulting in the belief that the report may have been an elaborate hoax. However, the unusual condition of the grass samples is currently unexplained. This fact, together with other aspects of the case, leave final determination in doubt at this time. ================================================================= END TAB A DOCUMENT ================================================================= ParaNet note: The following text is taken from an attachment of the Robertson Panel Tab A document. It was included in the FOIA release and contains a memorandum for record dated 16 May 1958. It should be considered in the same way as the previous document. ================================================================= 16 May 1958 MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD SUBJECT: Meeting with Air Force Personnel Concerning Scientific Advisory Panel Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, dated 17 January 1953 (Secret) 1. A meeting was convened this date eiwht representatives of the Air Force to discuss what steps should be taken concerning the subject report in order to take care of inquiries such as the letters written by Mr. Leon Davidson. Mr. Davidson has been most insistent upon getting the entire report released. The full report is classified "Secret." A declassified version is available, a copy of which was given to Mr. Davidson. The following personnel were at the meeting: Mr. Philip G. Strong DAD/C/SI, CIA Major Joseph E. Boland SAF LL-3 Major James F. Byrne AFCIN-XIA Major Lawrence J. Tacker SAFIS Dr. A. Francis Arcier ATIC Mr. George Cary Legislative Counsel, CIA Mr. W. E. Lexow OSI, CIA 3. Paragraph 3 of the report cites examples of actions that could be taken by an enemy with possibly dangerous consequences to national security. This is the principal reason that the entire reason the report cannot be declassified. This was agreed to in the meeting. In addition, it was pointed out by Mr. Strong that several of the panel members specifically requested that while they had no objection to their names being used in connection with this report, they did not want their names connected to the Central Intelligence Agency. So far it is believed that all connections between the panel members and CIA have been made by unofficial personnel. 4. In dealing specifically with Mr. Davidson it was agreed that Major Tacker would answer for the DCI at the same time that he was answering for the Air Forces. (Mr. Davidson sent a copy of his letter to Major Tacker to the DCI for a response.) 5. Mr. Strong pointed out that perhaps the best way to forestall any future inquiries along these lines was to put out a press release covering the subject of unidentified flying objects, utilizing the panel report as much as possible. Major Boland agreed that this was perhaps the best way to handle it, inasmuch as in his capacity of Legilsative Liaison, it would best satisfy congressional requirements. Major Tacker will draft an Air Force press release, clearing it through the various sections of the Air Force, and will then submit it to Mr. Cary for Agency review, Mr. Cary will consult with the Office of Security, Mr. Strong and the undersigned when he receives the draft press release. 6. The Air Force representatives believe that much of the trouble they have been having with Major Keyhoe along these same lines could be alleviated if the Major did not have such important personages as Vice Admiral R. H. Hillenkoetter, USN (ret.), former DCI, on the board of governors of his organization. They suggested that perhaps if the Admiral was shown the Secret panel report he would understand and take appropriate actions. Mr. Cary said that he would relate this suggestion to Mr. Houston (General Counsel). 7. Major Boland suggested that it might be advisable to contact the panel members to consider a rewording of th epanel report somewhat along the lines that Dr. Menzel suggested in his letter to all the members of the panel. Dr. Menzel has received the unclassified version from Mr. Leon Davidson. Mr. Strong feels that this may be inadvisable at the present time, inasmuch as the report has already been made available to thge public and any change may arouse suspicion. However, he will contact Dr. Roberston and disucss this. Signed W. E. Lexow Chief, Applied Science Division, SI Distribution: Orig - DAD/C/SI 2 - ASD/SI 1 - Mr. Chapin (Ass'n to the DCI) 1 - Mr. Cary (Leg. Counsel) 1 - SO/SI ([blanked out] Office of Security) OSI/ASD/WELexow: gl/682 ================================================================= END OF DOCUMENT ================================================================= ParaNet Note: The folowing document was released under the Freedom of Information Act. It was contained in the same package as the previous material. As before, we do not represent that the information contained is accurate. The documents lists various people who attended an Intelligence Advisory Committee meeting to deal with the UFO problem. According to information gleaned from the document, it appears that the meeting was number 90 in a series of meetings of this committee. This does not necessarily mean that the meetings were specifically regarding UFOs, however we are attempting to get information on this. It is further interesting to note the number of CIA personnel in attendence, indicating that information that has been passed along over the years that the UFO problem was highly regarded by the CIA. ================================================================= Security Information IAC-M-90 4 December 1952 INTELLIGENCE ADVISORY COMMITTEE Minutes of Meeting held in Director's Conference Room, Administration Building, Central Intelligence Agency on 4 December 1952. Acting Deputy Director (Intelligence) Central Intelligence Agency Mr. Robert Amory, Jr. MEMBERS PRESENT Mr. W. Park Armstrong, Jr., Special Assistant, Intelligence Department of State Brigadier General John M. Willems, acting for Assistant Chief of Staff, G-2, Department of the Army Rear Admiral Carl F. Espe, Director of Naval Intelligence, Department of the Navy Major General John A. Samford, Director of Intelligence, Headquarters, United States Air Force Dr. Walter F. Colby, Director of Intelligence, Atomic Energy Commission Brigadier General Edward H. Porter Deputy Director for Intelligence, The Joint Staff Mr. Meffert W. Kuhrtz, acting for Assistant to the Director, Federal Bureau of Investigation ALSO PRESENT Dr. Sherman Kent, Central Intelligence Agency Dr. H. Marshall Chadwell, Central Intelligence Agency Mr. Paul Borel, Central Intelligence Agency Mr. Ludwell L. Montague, Central Intelligence Agency Mr. Philip Strong, Central Intelligence Agency Mr. Joseph W. Smith, Central Intelligence Agency Mr. William C. Trueheart, Department of State Mr. Miron Burgin, Department of State Lieutenant Colonel T. C. Anderson, Department of the Army Lieutenant Colonel Edgar H. Thomson, Jr., Department of the Army Colonel John J. Morrow, United States Air Force Colonel Jack E. Thomas, United States Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Thomas J. Grant, United States Air Force Colonel S. M. Lansing, The Joint Staff Captain John A. Holbrook, USN, The Joint Staff Richard D. Drain, Acting Secretary Declassified per sec 3(A), E011652 Approved for release 207789 Date 6 Ocotber 1978 Approval of Mintues 1. Action: The minutes of the last meeting, 1 December 1952 (IAC-M-89), were approved. Conditions and Trends in Latin America Affecting U.S. Security (NIE-70) 2. Action: Approved with minor modifications. Unidentified Flying Objects 3. Action: The Director of Central Intelligence will: a. Enlist the services of selected scientists to review and appraise the available evidence in the light of pertinent scientific theories. b. Draft and circulate to the IAC a proposed NSCID, which would sifnigy IAC concern in the subject and authorize coordination with appropriate non-IAC departments and agencies. 4. Discussion: The acting Chariman, Mr. Amory, presented to the committee the DCI's request that this subject be informally discussed. Dr. Chadwell briefly reviewed the evidence and peripheral considerations, and noted that most of the available evidence is processed by ATIC. General Samford offerred his full cooperation. It was recognized that he problem is best approached if directly related to specific problems of intelligence and defense. It was thought desirable that the action noted above under "a" be undertaken immediately, with consideration of a proposed NSCID to depend in some measure on the results achieved by the scientist's studies. ================================================================= END OF DOCUMENT TABAROB.UFO -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f1.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************