Info-ParaNet Newsletters, Number 277 Thursday, July 26th 1990 Today's Topics: GB 6 End of the World Re: Photo Analysis Re: Deserters Re: 6 AWOLS found in GB Fight-fligh and car's dying. Re: GB Video Re: Deserters Re: 6 AWOLS found in GB Re: Mag-> UFO UNIVERSE Re: Soviet UFO Shootdown Re: Cooper And Jfk Re: More GB Re: GB evidence chain Re: Military Cult in GB? 6 AWOLS found in GB Re: ILL BREEZE Re: SEALED CAMERA Re: Photo Analysis Re: Deserters Re: SEALED CAMERA Crop Circle Hoax A snippet from MUFON 90 Re: Recent Developments ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Roger Black Subject: GB 6 Date: 25 Jul 90 16:09:53 GMT Bill English writes regarding the Gulf Breeze Six: -+ An interesting developement is that although the -+ story is getting extensive coverage in the local media, the stories that -+ were going out on the AP and UPI have been jerked off of the wires. Anybody have access to the Pensacola newspapers and a scanner? -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Roger Black Subject: End of the World Date: 25 Jul 90 16:10:39 GMT Has anybody noticed that 6 August 90 is the 45th anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima? If the Anti-Christ looks anything like Michael Rennie, I'm going to smell a rat. Can you say, 'Klaatu Barada Nikto?' -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bill English) Subject: Re: Photo Analysis Date: 24 Jul 90 14:13:00 GMT In a message to Bill English <07-23-90 20:45> Steve Peterson wrote: SP> I believe MUFON has someone on tap for photo analysis, SP>don't SP>have details at my fingertips, but could provide, if you're SP>interested. Steve Steve, Yes I am extremely interested. I would appreciate any help that you could give... Bill English -- Bill English - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bill English) Subject: Re: Deserters Date: 24 Jul 90 14:23:00 GMT In a message to Bill English <07-23-90 21:03> Michael Corbin wrote: MC>Is there anyway of verifying Clifford's information? Mike, With regard to being assigned to the 103rd of the 701st....during that time frame...Yes...I have seen copies of the original orders which confirms this much. Both the orders sending him and his retirement papers which list the unit as his final unit before his retirement and discharge. With regard to his having known the three intimately, that is another question entirely. All we have at this point is his word, however it is my estimation that he is one of the most crediable witnesses I have seen in a while. This primarily because he documents everything. There is however some question since it is rumored that he supposedly rescued a child from Grey Aliens while in a national park here in New Mexico. He will neither confirm or deny this to me unless it is in person, but he has more or less stated that something happened... One final thing to consider is the rumor that the six were going to head to New Mexico after they accomplished whatever it was they were trying to do in Gulf Breeze..If indeed they did know Clifford and were aware of the depth of his involvement in UFOs then there is the possibility that they were planning on making contact with him... Bill.. -- Bill English - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don.Ecker@f22.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker) Subject: Re: 6 AWOLS found in GB Date: 25 Jul 90 09:05:00 GMT Big John Burke says; > >Anyone have more? > Sure Zach! T.S. has lots more of this crap. You might > also want to check with Bill Cooper, too. He has his own > bbs now, but remember the rules: bring your own > straightjacket, no common sense allowed. AND, DON'T FORGET YOUR $30.00 IN US CURRENCY PER 3 MONTHS, PAYABLE ASAP....... AND FOR ANOTHER $20.00 PER YEAR YOU TOO CAN BE THE PROUD SUBSCRIBER OF THE CAJI NEWSLETTER........ or was that cagy?? I get SO CONFUSED.................. TOODLES... -- Don Ecker - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Ecker@f22.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: logajan@ns.network.com (John Logajan) Subject: Fight-fligh and car's dying. Date: 26 Jul 90 07:19:51 GMT Topic: Fight or Flight (from a UFO) I think it was Hynek or one of his associates who mentioned the different reaction people have upon encountering a UFO event. I recall he mentioned the case of a UFO incident involving a farm family. The husband went inside the house, feeling fearful, and wanted nothing to do with it. The wife was beside herself with curiosity and went outside to view it. If I recall, they later both expressed suprise at their own reactions. I can identify with both feelings and wonder what my reaction would really be in a similar situation. I would like to think that I would try to get as much viewing in as possible. But I know my heart would be pounding to beat the band. Topic: Radar killing car ignitions systems. I don't know for sure what kills certain car ignitions in a radar field, but I do know that radar waves are of relatively short wavelength and of very high PULSED power. Because Radar's must use pulses of very short duration (else the echoes start returning before the transmitter shuts off, and you really can't have the transmitter on when the echoes start coming back because you will drown them out with the sheer power of the transmitter) they can be of extremely high power, on the order of hundreds of thousands to millions of watts. It should be noted that car engines are rather open as far as microwave frequencies are concerned. There are the long hood slots, the gigantic hole in the bottom of the engine comparment, leaks around the radiator intake, etc. Hence, having car ignitions (late model cars tend to have a high degree of 'intelligence') exposed to and susceptible to million watt pulse radar fields is neither particularly unexpected or surprising. - John Logajan @ Network Systems; 7600 Boone Ave; Brooklyn Park, MN 55428 - logajan@ns.network.com, john@logajan.mn.org, 612-424-4888, Fax 424-2853 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bill English) Subject: Re: GB Video Date: 25 Jul 90 14:50:00 GMT In a message to Bill English <07-22-90 17:45> Tyson Mitchiner wrote: TM>Well.. I guess my curiousity is a lot stronger than my TM>fear, because if I saw one, I would try to learn as much TM>from it than run away and face the "What was it" questions. Tyson, your a better man than I am.... Bill.. -- Bill English - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bill English) Subject: Re: Deserters Date: 25 Jul 90 14:54:00 GMT In a message to Bill English <07-22-90 17:59> Tyson Mitchiner wrote: TM>Well, if the Army wanted to dispell any media or other TM>interest in the story of those six people from W. Germany, TM>the perfect story is to paint them as the Anti-Christ TM>fanatics as shown in some newspaper articles... This TM>subject should be investigated deeply to make sure that TM>this isnt a hoax or a misinformation attempt by the govt. I am already working on it.. Bill -- Bill English - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bill English) Subject: Re: 6 AWOLS found in GB Date: 25 Jul 90 14:56:00 GMT In a message to Bill English <07-23-90 11:10> Richard Peek wrote: RP>I'll see what I can dig up RP>Rich Thanks, your help would be appreciated.. Bill.. -- Bill English - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bill English) Subject: Re: Mag-> UFO UNIVERSE Date: 25 Jul 90 14:59:00 GMT In a message to Bill English <07-24-90 15:11> Jim Delton wrote: JD>I can understand that you might respect him on a personal JD>level but cannot fathom how you could respect him on a JD>professional level (of course, that is really a JD>contradiction in terms when it comes to UFOlogy). Doesn't JD>mean it has to be anything personal at all; many people JD>have respect for people who are honest while haveing no JD>respect for the positions that they take on issues. (laughing).....TOUCHE! Bill.. -- Bill English - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bill English) Subject: Re: Soviet UFO Shootdown Date: 25 Jul 90 16:16:00 GMT In a message to All <07-24-90 02:12> postmaster@scicom.alphacdc.com wrote: po>This report was conveyed to me by a Soviet national po>currently residing in the po>U.S. He obtained his information from a relative still in po>the Soviet Union, po>who in turn got it from Soviet newspapers about six months po>ago. It would seem that this report coincides with several reports that I have been getting from my sources. It certainly is falling within the same time frame. I do know that the Soviet Government does sponsor UFO Clubs and research publically, unlike the American Government. Bill.. -- Bill English - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve.Peterson@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Peterson) Subject: Re: Cooper And Jfk Date: 26 Jul 90 04:56:00 GMT I have seen Cooper's copy of the Zepruder film, and at first blush, it does look like the driver (Greer) turns and points a chrome-plated .45 looking 'weapon'. However, if you look on page 86 of 'Crime of the Century' by Michael Kurtz, or view a *clear* copy of the Zepruder film, it's obvious to me, that the 'barrel' of the weapon, is the sun reflecting off of Kellerman's head. Greer does turn around twice, and the car does slow down, but I don't think the President was shot from within the car. I do firmly believe that there is ample evidence to open an honest investigation. Steve -- Steve Peterson - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Steve.Peterson@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barry.Williams@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Barry Williams) Subject: Re: More GB Date: 25 Jul 90 21:01:45 GMT Jym-- This follow-up to your message about the GB matter concerning Ed Walters was discussed fully and in-depth at the MUFON symposium. They has have since tracked down the person that Ed had done building plans for and she has testified as to the accuracy of the documents involved, etc. Further, the time correlations all seem to fit into Ed's story as well. I can't remember her name offhand but somewhere around here I have the Gulf Breeze "Sentinel's" report of this incident. If I can find it, I'll type it in for everyone to read. Incidentally, I have a good friend in Pensacola who has promised to forward to me all of the UFO-related stories that are published. The Gulf Breeze paper tends to carry more of these than the regular Pensacola paper; many of the residents of Gulf Breeze are beginning to consider themselves as the Anointed Ones, strategically located in the epicenter of all of this UFO-related activity. There apparently is another book about to be published concerning all of the other sightings and accounts other than Ed and Frances'. I'll keep you posted. Hope all of this wasn't old news. Barry J. -- Barry Williams - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Barry.Williams@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: GB evidence chain Date: 25 Jul 90 06:05:00 GMT > John, you are correct..I remembered that I saw the drawings in Commander > Mosely's "Saucer Smear"....Hmmmmm...I wonder why Jim Mosely has taken > such an adement stance in defence of Ed. It seems slightly out of > character for him.. > Bill: Read the Commander's words more closely. He is not by any means a believer. He just thinks this is the damnedest case that has ever come down the pike. In other words, he hasn't the foggiest idea how Ed has pulled it off, and doesn't think anyone else does, either. I tend to agree, and I applaud Ed's genius. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: Military Cult in GB? Date: 25 Jul 90 06:07:00 GMT > recent developements are leading me to believe that the Cult story is > nothing more than material released by the government to try and throw > everyone off the trail. An interesting developement is that although the > story is getting extensive coverage in the local media, the stories that > were going out on the AP and UPI have been jerked off of the wires. > Quick question, Bill: how does one tell that a wire story is being "jerked off the wires"? How do you know it didn't simply die a natural death? Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: 6 AWOLS found in GB Date: 25 Jul 90 06:13:00 GMT > Jim, > I see you on CI$ some (I'm a big llurker. Do you use the news clipping > service for research?? I'm considering this. I used to. Its a very good tool and I recommend it highly. I just don't anymore because, well, I use TAPCIS and just keep forgetting to manually check my folders. Besides, a lot of other people do that legwork for us now. The advantages of belonging to a network. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: ILL BREEZE Date: 25 Jul 90 16:27:00 GMT > JS> sounds like it could be as high as S4/P5. But I am 100% > JS> convinced that Ed's photos are a hoax. The idea that his > > What "PROOF" convinced you that Ed's photos are a hoax?? > The totality of the evidence convinced me. -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: SEALED CAMERA Date: 25 Jul 90 16:29:00 GMT > I finally saw the book, and scanned the photos (without buying it) at > the local Waldens. I can't believe it! I think the Japanese Lampshade > theory explains it all. Sorry for being so blunt, and making unsupported > statements (which are generally out of character for me) but the photos > reek like a fish in the sun. My opinion only as I have to admit, but > thinking about the scale, and distances, and sizes of the "UFOs" and > perspectives etc. it's just very hard to believe this one. You're not alone, Pete. "Reeks" is a beautiful word for this case. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: Photo Analysis Date: 25 Jul 90 16:35:00 GMT > Bill, > The only thing I found was the following- > William Spaulding > Ground Sauser Watch > 13238 N. 7th Drive > Pheonix, Az 85029 Good luck...no one's heard from Spaulding for years. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton) Subject: Re: Deserters Date: 26 Jul 90 04:01:00 GMT If the army wanted to dispell any interest why would they portray themn as fanatics?????? Doing that is sure to get them in all the newspapers in the country (as has happened). If they wanted to dispell any interest they could have said nothing and wisked them back to Germany. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton) Subject: Re: SEALED CAMERA Date: 26 Jul 90 04:07:00 GMT Aha, someone else who is willing to believe his eyes when faced with obviously (to me) fake photos. If we had a "real" UFO and flew it around ED's house I'd bet he couldn't come anywhere near getting as good a series of photos of that as he did of the UFO he did photo. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Crop Circle Hoax Date: 26 Jul 90 04:47:00 GMT LONDON (AP) -- Someone equipped with Ouija boards, wooden crosses and a sense of humor played a practical joke on a team of investigators trying to determine the cause of mysterious circles that appear suddenly in farm fields. The team of engineers and photographers thought they had cracked the mystery when sophisticated cameras and monitoring equipment recorded flashing orange lights Tuesday night in a field they are watching in Wiltshire. When the international team found two large circles with parallel lines running through them on Wednesday morning, they were really intrigued. But upon closer examination they realized they had been had. Ouija boards and wooden crosses were found in the center of the circles, and the Operation Blackbird researchers were not amused. "Somebody had a joke, but it has actually set our research back," said Colin Andrews, a team member and the author of "Circular Findings." "We have a serious job to do. It is only funny for 60 seconds," he said, adding that the recording of flashing lights were probably thermal images of people running around in circles. The investigators from the United States, Japan, West Germany and Britain had planned to spend three weeks monitoring the field in the Vale of Pewsey in the town of Wiltshire, 75 miles southwest of London. It was not immediately clear if the practical joke would cause them to change their plan. They are trying to determine the source of the mysterious circles, which have appeared suddenly among crops in England and elsewhere in Europe. The perfectly formed circles of flattened corn -- some with decorative patterns, some with concentric rings -- were first recorded in England in 1678. In other countries, the circles have been reported in sand, snow and rice paddies. The circles have been variously attributed to whirlwinds, witches, magnetic forces, animals, spaceships -- and hoaxers. Last year, 300 circles appeared and as many theories as to why. The most recent theory, published in the New Scientist magazine, suggested they were formed by weather conditions and electrical charges in the area. -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: A snippet from MUFON 90 Date: 26 Jul 90 05:32:00 GMT Here's an interesting exchange from the Q&A session at the MUFON conference: Don Ecker (to Ed Walters): There's been a story circulating around that the gentleman who made these accusations [Tom Smith, Jr.] against you has come forward with this story because his parents were very strong religious background and they did not accept easily the notion of UFOs. Is there any veracity to this rumor? Walters: I certainly would have nothing to say as to the motives behind what anybody says. I don't know what motivates people to do what they do, I'm not a psychiatrist or a psychologist. I could guess, but I.... Ecker: Let me put it this way. Do these people, to your knowledge, have a very strong religious background [indistinct] and would it be conceviable that the idea of UFOs would be placed in context of demons [indistinct] or something like that - to your knowledge? Walters: To my knowledge these people are very nice people. I do not have any knowledge of their religious beliefs and I do not know what their motives are. Klass: But on the Chuck Harder show [For the People 6/20/90] you did attribute it to religious motivations - the father's concern. Walters: When I'm asked to guess and speculate, I can guess and speculate with the best of us. But what the actual motives are I do not know. ----------------------------- FLASHBACK: "For the People" with Chuck Harder, 6/20/90. Guest: Ed Walters. Walters: I do know this young man (Smith) and I went on record in January of 88, when the young man came to me and said, Ed, I've taken five photographs, aor maybe it was six, of a UFO. He asked me what to do and I said, well, go to the press or go to the investigators and tell your story and show them your photographs. He said, I can't. My father is talking very strangely about angels and a lot of very religious discussions, and he said he was very, very much afraid that it was affecting his father. ----------------------------- Now, why would Ed suddenly start downplaying the religious angle, to the point of denying his own words? Just another mystery to be added to the pile. Jim (transcripts courtesy P. Klass) -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bill English) Subject: Re: Recent Developments Date: 25 Jul 90 14:42:00 GMT In a message to Bill English <07-22-90 13:05> John Burke wrote: JB>Bill: I would think that after Moore's infamous "Vegas JB>speech", Friedman would have to be trying like hell to JB>distance himself from that guy, to keep his own reputation JB>from being "tainted". That's probably why he had to really JB>"bust his butt" on his "MJ-12 Final Report". Anything JB>short of a genuine effort at analysis would have made him JB>look suspicious. -- John John, this is entirely possible, however I would also point out that Stanton did a pretty good job on his final report. I have been catching a lot of heat because of my opinion which I based on the report and the job he did. Not because of his association with Bill Moore and the rather ambious slam job on the part of Phil Klass...Hmmmm...methinks that Klass has been trying to hard to slam Stan and debunk Gilf Breeze.....I wonder why? Bill.. -- Bill English - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bill.English@f5.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************