Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 302 Sunday, September 16th 1990 Today's Topics: Newspaper article MJ-12 controversy in Usenet sci.skeptic UFO's In Belgium Re: Mystery Teletype Ufo Crash In Russia Re: UFO'S; BERMUDA TRIANGLE Re: Betz comment Re: Mystery Teletype Re: Playing tag on radar Bermuda Triangle Me Bermuda Triangle,Etc Creating digitized GIF pictures "extortion" letter OUT THERE by Blum Re: Mystery Teletype ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Douglas H Hughes Subject: Newspaper article Date: 14 Sep 90 21:16:36 GMT I found this article in the newspaper the other day and I thought you all might be interested to read it too. So here it is. --------------------------------------------------------------- A new book written in part by a University alumnus suggests that former University president Eric A. Walker may have attended top secret meetings during which gorvernment officials talked about UFO investigations. UFO researcher and former Penn Stater T. Scott Crain, Jr., co-authored the book, due to be released in September. It contains transcripts of alleged caonversation in which Walker talked to officials about UFO sightings. Crain alleges that Walker attended these meetings during his stint as Executive Secretary of Research and Development for the federal government in the 1950s. Walker, who still lives in Centre County, denied any knowledge or involvement in government UFO investigations. However, Crain said his book contains evidence of Walker's involvement, adding that the former University president still has security clearances which could be jeopardized by his public admission of having attended these meetings. 'Walker is the first scientist to admit knowledge of Operation Majestic Twelve, a Top secret federal research and development/ intelligence project allegedly approved by President Truman in 1947,' Crain said. The alleged project, nicknamed MJ-12, consisted of 12 distinguished scientists, military, and intelligence officials appointed to oversee recovery operations of UFO crashes. The activities of this group and government efforts to keep the public uninformed on the subject of UFOs are topics covered in Crain's book. 'We feel the U.S. government has developed teams to recover unknown aerial objects, that they analyze UFO hardware and that there is an ongoing operation to duplicate (alien) technology,' said Crain. The general manager of Crain Lumber Company, 201 North Street, in Port Matilda, Crain has been studying UFOs as a hobby for 22 years. The book, `UFOs, MJ-12 and the Government', also described in detail a supposed 1965 UFO crash near Pittsburgh. On December 9, 1965, people in Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, and the tip of Ontario observed a bright orange object streaking across the sky, according to Greebsburg's `Tribune-Review'. The object, described by witnesses as a gold, acorn-shaped metal craft, was reported to have landed in the middle of a densely wooded area in Kecksburg, Pa. The military sealed off the wooded area and set up a command post in a nearby firehouse to investigate the matter. The incident, dismissed by many as a meteor's collision with earth, will be the subject of an episode of NBC's 'Unsolved Mysteries' this fall. A film crew from the program spent six weeks in Westmoreland County in July to investiage the 25-year old case and recreate it using a full cast of actors. The episode is scheduled to air as the program's season premiere on Sept. 19, segment producer Shannon McGinn said. ____ ________________\ doug@psusun0[1 or 3].psu.edu ( / ) _ _, ______\ doug@ecl.psu.edu _\__/ <_>_/_/_<_> _____ / dhh102@psuvm.psu.edu <_> / doug@vivaldi.psu.edu 'What the world really needs is fewer quotes like these' -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Roger Black Subject: MJ-12 controversy in Usenet sci.skeptic Date: 14 Sep 90 04:51:32 GMT Here is my latest shot in the Klass/MJ-12 debate on Usenet's sci.skeptic. So far there has been no response from either Phil Klass or Ted Powell. ******************************************************************** -From: rblack@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu (Roger Black) -Newsgroups: sci.skeptic -Subject: Re: Bluebook Coverup -Keywords: Klass, Friedman, Hillenkoetter -Date: 4 Sep 90 05:59:34 GMT And now for the next chapter in the endless MJ-12 debate ... In article <1990Aug26.221648.29077@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca>, ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Ted Powell) writes: +>So apparently Burke (or somebody) got the Truman letter confused with the +>Cutler memo. + + Could be. After all, there is independent evidence that the Cutler + letter is bogus, so the $1000 story wouldn't carry much weight if + (correctly) associated with this letter. The validity of that 'evidence' is still disputed. In Klass' own words the evidence is as follows: (1) 'It could not have been written by Cutler because he was out of the country at the time.' This is a bit naive. It is not uncommon for routine memos to be written by an assistant in the boss's name, and the Cutler memo--which deals with rescheduling a briefing--is about as routine as it gets. (2) 'Furthermore, examination of Twining's official log for July 16, 1954, shows he did not attend any such meeting.' So Twining didn't show up; that doesn't prove that there wasn't a meeting, or that he wasn't *supposed* to be there. People do miss meetings sometimes, even important ones. Anyway, does Klass really suppose that 'official logs' are unerringly complete and accurate? I certainly wouldn't--especially when government secrets are involved. (3) 'A year earlier, on July 13, 1953, Cutler did send a memo to Gen. Twining, instructing him to attend a very secret White House meeting of the National Security Council on July 16, 1953. ,,, Undoubtedly the counterfeit 7/14/54 memo was inspired by this authentic 7/13/53 memo because it 'borrows' some of the same terminology." Or, perhaps, both memos use a standard format for informing officials of changes in meeting times. The government does have handbooks for such things. +>The main thrust, of course, remains--at least one of Klass's +>assertions about MJ-12 has been disproven. + + Not really. As noted in Klass' statement, he finds financial challenges + to Friedman to be a cost-effective means of investigation. The fact that + this particular one did not pay off for Klass hardly disproves his + assertion that the Cutler memo is a fake. I never said that it did. As I understand it, Klass declared that the Pica typeface on the Cutler-Twining memo was not in use prior to the date of the memo, thereby proving the memo to be a fake. Thereafter, to use Klass' own words, 'Friedman did supply evidence to show that the Pica typeface used in this Cutler-Twining memo can be found in other Cutler letters.' Obviously this does not prove the memo genuine; it does prove that Klass was mistaken about the typeface. That was the 'assertion' I referred to. I'm sorry if I didn't express myself clearly enough. +>Which only demonstrates that he +>is fallible, as he himself admits later; but it's nice to have the proof! + + Unfair. The phrasing implies that Klass has somehow shifted ground on + this point. You lost me on that one. + What he _actually_ said was: 'In closing, I have never + claimed to be infallible. Just like I said. + When I err, I promptly admit same. Friedman + prefers to sweep his errors under the rug.' Friedman makes the same claim about Klass. In the March/April 1990 issue of the International UFO Reporter, p. 13, he states: Sadly, it is standard practice on the part of debunkers to ignore the evidence. Klass, for example, made more than 20 factual misstatements in his three-page treatment of Roswell in 'UFOs: The Public Deceived' (1983). See how easy it is? I'd feel a lot better if Klass (and Friedman) would be more specific about just what these 'errors' are, so we can judge for ourselves. + Therefore, + Friedman would have had an incentive to spend some time checking into + the question of how often Hillenkoetter's letters had dates in the + unsual style of William L. Moore (original publiciser of the MJ-12 + papers) ... A cheap shot. This implies (without actually saying so) that Moore forged the documents. Klass plays the same game in his posting. If you and Klass really believe the documents are forged, and that Moore is the one who did it, why not come right out with it? Of course, if you're wrong, and Moore could prove it, you might get sued ... + Friedman's remarks about stupidity and inappropriateness + notwithstanding, I'm inclined to believe that if he had found that more + than 17% of the applicable Hillenkoetter letters exhibited the + anomalies, he would have chosen to collect from Klass in as public a + fashion as possible. And I'm inclined to believe that if President Bush called up Phil Klass and confirmed the MJ-12 documents for him, he'd still refuse to accept it. Your beliefs about Friedman's character or probable behavior (and mine about Klass') are not evidence, and prove nothing. + The fact that he has declined to do so is, to me, a + clear indication that the proportion of anomalous letters is less than + 17%. Or that he simply doesn't know what the proportion is, and doesn't want to wager on a crap shoot. A large proportion of classified documents from the relevant years are still unreleased. In fact, according to Friedman, not a single Hillenkoetter document from the year 1952 (other than, allegedly, MJ-12 itself) is available. Would *you* bet the farm on something both unknown and (at least for now) unknowable? + The accomplishment of Klass' + challenge, it seems to me, is that he has given Friedman a monetary + incentive (which, demonstrably, he is not immune to) to conduct such a + search and publicize any positive results. As if money is the only conceivable incentive for conducting research. Is it even remotely possible that Friedman is more interested in learning the truth about MJ-12 than he is in lining his pockets, and that he has better things to do with his time than to play duelling checkbooks with Phil Klass? + Whether Friedman actually conducted a search, I have no idea. According to Howard Blum in 'Out There: The Government's Secret Quest for Extraterrestrials' (Simon & Schuster, 1990), Friedman has not only conducted the search, he has been successful. He now possesses, says Blum, not only a small stack of government and military documents with 'unnecessary commas' and zero-prefix dates, but also a letter written by none other than Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter himself which was dated, for all the world to see, with a resplendent 'unnecessary comma.' + if Hillenkoetter + used the funny format once then it's likely he used it more than once, Not necessarily. The MJ-12 briefing paper, if genuine, isn't exactly your run-of-the-mill government document. It's supposed to be 'Top Secret, Eyes Only, Copy One of One'. We have no idea whether the date format was dictated by the author (whoever it actually was) or chosen by the typist; if the author was Hillenkoetter, we have no idea who the typist was or whether it was the same person who typed his more routine correspondence. There's just not enough data to draw any conclusions yet. + ... possibly even enough times to earn a bundle of Klass' money. Ah, yes, this is how we advance the cause of true science--by placing bets with our opponents in hopes of bankrupting them them into silence. + Clearly + Friedman is not averse to such a thing, as shown by the Cutler-Twining + case. Maybe he just wanted to see whether Klass would pay up or not. Maybe now that he knows, he's not interested any more and would rather spend his time doing research. The implicit assumption in Klass' challenge (and your defense of it) is that Friedman is a money-grubbing fraud instead of an honest scientist, an assumption for which I see no evidence whatever. +>This means that even if Friedman is able to find a legitimate example +>of its use (and all he needs is ONE to prove his case, if I understand the +>argument correctly), he most likely won't find very many. + + Ooops. I thought the position was that Friedman already _has_ 'a + legitimate example of its use', namely the briefing document, and wants + to have TWO. Assuming that's what the writer really meant to say ... ... would be assuming wrong. I chose my words very carefully. If you will go back and read my previous postings, you will see that I have never taken *any* position as to the legitimacy of the MJ-12 documents. As a matter of fact, I don't even *have* a position on the subject; I do not have either the time or the credentials to investigate it on my own, which leaves me at the mercy of Klass, Nickell, Friedman, Moore, and others to ferret out the facts for me. So far each side has struck some good blows, but as far as I'm concerned the issue remains in doubt. + In any case, now that Klass can be reasonably confident that the + proportion of 'anomalous' documents is fairly small, he can up the ante + knowing that there's a ceiling on his potential expense. (I've no idea + whether he intends to do so.) I have neither met Friedman and Moore nor have I corresponded with them; I certainly do not speak for them. If Klass is 'reasonably confident' of *anything* regarding MJ-12 based on what I say, he'll probably be very sorry. + I believe that the challenge was a reasonable first step. If the + Hillenkoetter document (and of course I'm using 'Hillenkoetter' in the + sense of identification, rather than authorship) were really authored by + Hillenkoetter, there would likely be a whole lot more with the same + anomalous usages. Considering this possiblilty, it would hardly be + prudent to weigh the scales more heavily in Friedman's favor than was + actually done. You're evading the issue. As I see it, the only real question about the date is whether or not the 'MJ-12' date format is "an error ... that a government typist would never have made' [Blum, p. 252, paraphrasing Klass]. If so, then Klass has struck a telling blow against MJ-12. If not, then it is irrelevant how common or uncommon it is. Consequently, all Friedman has to do is find *one* genuine Hillenkoetter document bearing the offending comma, and he has won his point--even if Klass can fire back a thousand documents without it. The format of Klass' challenge, even with its '5:1 bias in favor of Friedman', therefore misses the point. If Klass truly believes the 'unnnecessary comma' format to be an impossible error, then he should issue the same challenge he made on the typeface--$1000 if Friedman can prove him wrong. + Unquoted material above is my own commentary, and has not yet been seen + by Phil Klass. I'll be sending hard copy of the previous posting and + this response to him, however. Good. Please pass this one on to him, too. ******************************************************************** End of Usenet sci.skeptic article. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Lybeck Subject: UFO's In Belgium Date: 16 Sep 90 03:17:55 GMT I would like to see the original pages of 'Paris-Match'. I believe the Foreign Language department of my school does recieve Paris-Match, but could you please give me a date (Just look at it, aout 1990 is not a hard thing to know). Merci. Eric Lybeck lybeck@plains.nodak.edu !uunet!plains!lybeck lybeck@plains Internet UUCP bitnet -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: Re: Mystery Teletype Date: 14 Sep 90 04:19:00 GMT > I don't know where the newswire rumor got started, but > it's completely unfounded. We're talking US Mail. Ah-hah! That's different, and less interesting. Still, one wonders where it all came from. There is no evidence of similar mailings & photos being received by the wire services, networks, or the US military, I suppose? So this was just a one-shot anonymous mailing to the local Gulf Breeze paper. Hmmmm. Thanks for the info! Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f320.n207.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Ufo Crash In Russia Date: 10 Sep 90 16:27:00 GMT > Could anyone see if there is any followup to this article? > > Thanks, > > Mike > > * Forwarded from "Fido UFO Echo" > * Originally from David Stager > * Originally dated 09-06-90 21:11 > > SOVIET SCIENTISTS CLAIM FLYING SAUCER FOUND IN ESTONIA > Will contact Antonio Huneeus for follow-up. He told me about this case last night (but I thought he said Azerbaijan). Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton) Subject: Re: UFO'S; BERMUDA TRIANGLE Date: 11 Sep 90 04:39:00 GMT You are right on the money!! Recent story suggests that even the famous "lost squadron" may have been located at the bottom of the ocean. Probably will be too expensive to ever salvage though. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton) Subject: Re: Betz comment Date: 11 Sep 90 04:50:00 GMT If I had to guess, (and I am) I'd guess they were seen either in the early evening or at night since most of the sighting have been after dusk and the planes have been theorized to have been a diversionary tactic. The original post suggested that one of the things that made the planes suspicious was that they WERE O-2's, supposedly a well-known CIA plane. I was under the impression that the O-2 was simply a commonly used training craft. Trying to determine the motives of the military is always dicey at best. I'm not sure the military even knows why they do things. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton) Subject: Re: Mystery Teletype Date: 11 Sep 90 04:53:00 GMT If the teletype was mailed is there ANY evidence that it was "real"? While 20 years ago virtually no one had a "computer type printer" and faking such a TTY message was somewhat difficult for the weekend hoaxer nowadays there are so many computer systems around that just about anyone could work up a fake TTY message and print it out in appropriate computer looking form. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton) Subject: Re: Playing tag on radar Date: 11 Sep 90 04:59:00 GMT That whole story sounds strange. I thought most small aircraft radar was essentially weather radar and that it didn't have much capablilty for being aimed other then in the direction the plane was going. But even if it could be aimed and could pickup that stuff I can't imagine that anyone would be in trouble for asking about it. The Air Traffic Controll system is a bunch of gvt employees and I doubt any of them would care one way or the other what someone is seeing on thier weather radar as long as they follow the ATC route control assignments. If anyone has any expertise in this area I hope they will chime in. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike.Keithly@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Keithly) Subject: Bermuda Triangle Date: 12 Sep 90 16:32:00 GMT When did all of these discoveries occur i have heard nothing on finding the Lost Flight! It seems you never here what is going on in that part of the world.. Mike Keithly -- Mike Keithly - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Mike.Keithly@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Me Date: 13 Sep 90 14:17:00 GMT > Please remove my name and login on your board. It has been interesting > but I have found that the conversations have been one sided. I also feel > that most of the users are out to get the believers and flame there > tails.... > Im sorry that people have to knock what they cannot imagine or > experence...... > Sincerly Greg B.--- ZMailQ 1.10 @9:9/0.0 * Is that any reason to leave? To me, that would be a challenge to stay and argue. Flaming is NOT allowed on ParaNet. If you feel you have personally been flamed, leave a message to Doug Rogers, the Echo Moderator. But generally, I don't see what you're talking about. I see many sides of the argument represented here. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike.Keithly@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Keithly) Subject: Bermuda Triangle,Etc Date: 14 Sep 90 04:54:00 GMT Hell just want to let you know that i am interested in the Bermuda Triangle,hopefully you are I would rather discuss this Privately bu ti (but i) am having trouble finding out where you are.Are Youa a member of Paranet? If not Join I know the Coordinator Personally.Anyways what do you think of the whole situation on the Berm.Triangle,i find it rather compelling. Let me know. MIke Keithly -- Mike Keithly - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Mike.Keithly@p0.f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul.Faeder@p0.f0.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Paul Faeder) Subject: Creating digitized GIF pictures Date: 15 Sep 90 02:45:13 GMT In an article of <12 Sep 90 11:12:10 GMT>, writes: To: >could do a few -- my only problem would be transmitting the final >product, >as I'm only hooked up to ParaNet via Internet gateway... would these >pictures be available by anonymous FTP or is there another way? Mark; I call CIS about once a week. If there is a way to attach a MS/PC-DOS file to CIS E-mail, you can do that and I'll circulate it through the ParaNet file distribution system. My CIS user ID is 73257,244. -- Paul Faeder - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Paul.Faeder@p0.f0.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul.Faeder@p0.f0.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Paul Faeder) Subject: "extortion" letter Date: 15 Sep 90 03:20:00 GMT The recent issue of UFO Magazine mentions that an "extortion letter" was sent to the gov't demanding release of the Gulf Breeze 6 (army deserters) or else classified files and other sensitive information would be released. Copies of this letter were sent to the media. Is this letter the "mystery teletype" letter or is there another one around? UFO magazine says this letter was accompanied by 2 UFO photos. Has anyone seen these photos? What do they show? -- Paul Faeder - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Paul.Faeder@p0.f0.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul.Faeder@p0.f0.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Paul Faeder) Subject: OUT THERE by Blum Date: 15 Sep 90 03:21:31 GMT In an article of <14 Sep 90 03:17:26 GMT>, 'MAJ ROBERT FLURY' writes: To: 'MAJ ROBERT FLURY' >I have read 'OUT THERE' by Blum. Clearly three areas deserve more >investigation: >The 'remote viewings.' Didn't they try to "view" the interiors? Good question. I saw Blum on the Oprah Winfrey show last week and read an interview of him in UFO magazine. In both cases the focus of the interview is on UFO's. What I find intriguing and pretty much glossed over, is the gov't's involvement in ESP (I consider remote viewing to fall into the ESP category). Methinks we have a can of worms here; or is it Pandora's box? :-) BTW, I appreciate the "signal strength" from you and the others who reside in the "alien" world of UNIX. Keep it up! -- Paul Faeder - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Paul.Faeder@p0.f0.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: Re: Mystery Teletype Date: 15 Sep 90 07:18:00 GMT JD> If the teletype was mailed is there ANY evidence that it The GB Sentinel article said it was simply typewritten. jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:30163/0 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************