Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 338 Thursday, December 13th 1990 Today's Topics: Interview with Jean-Pierre Petit - Part 4 Interview with Jean-Pierre Petit - Part 5 Interview with Jean-Pierre Petit Part 6 Interview with Jean-Pierre Petit Conclusion Phenom 12-7-90 Prof. Jean-Pierre Petit Phoenix Skeptics cont. Re: Omni Magazine - Special Ufo Edition Prof. Jean-pierre Petit Re: Omni Magazine - Special UFO issue ParaNet Re: Prof. Jean-Pierre Petit Re: Omni Magazine - Special Ufo Issue ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Interview with Jean-Pierre Petit - Part 4 Date: 10 Dec 90 20:47:00 GMT >>>Petit Interview - Part 4 Cont.<<< A: France has been the scene of a disinformation campaign which has lasted for 13 years under the name GEPAN. Q: We found enough documents and testimony in your book to support this opinion. You show very well that GEPAN functioned exactly like the famous Condon Commission created in the USA at the end of the 1960s, and whose only aim was to misdirect American public opinion on the UFO reports. A: By combining the activities of GEPAN with the low level of communications from those in France who call themselves "ufologists" (a term that does not say much) one has created an absolutely total lack of interest in the media and in particular in the research community, toward UFOs: This explains the lack of attention to the Belgian wave here in France. Was the Belgian wave of sightings so exceptional? Since November 29, 1989 there have been tens of thousands of sightings, of which nearly 1,000 were close observations from distances of around 200 meters which have been the object of inquiries by the Belgian National Police. On just the night of November 29, 1989 between 5:30 pm and 9:00 pm, 30 different groups of witnesses (Including three police patrols and customs officials) observed the same two objects. These witnesses were located within a rectangular area about 25 km by 15 km, between Liege and Eupen. The similarity in their testimony allowed us to reconstruct the trajectory of the UFO. An interesting detail: they all reported very slow movement. A witness gave this precise description: "I could have followed it by walking." In particular, the object was seen in daylight at close range by a Belgian soldier working in the weather service who saw the object doing a leisurely turn over the village square. We also number among the witnesses a Major in the Belgian Army and a theoretical physicist, Professor Brenig, who is a colleague of Professor Prigogine. Q: Where could those extraterrestrial vehicles come from? A voyage over hundreds of light years seems inconceivable. A: In the vision of the universe based on classical physics, this objection is a very serious one. But how is the universe constructed? What geometry does it have? Given the classical view, we live in a hyperspace of four dimensions. In 1967 the Soviet physicist Andrei Sakharov suggested that there is no "a" universe, but rather two universes coexisting. Which is to say, one universe consisting of ordinary matter, and another consisting of anti-matter. This twin version is for me the first step toward a theory permitting us to imagine moving through great distances in the cosmos. One way to visualize the twin universes is to think of a cloth and its lining. The second step consists of imagining that the twin universes can somehow communicate with each other. I am doing some theoretical work in order to develop a mathematical model for the transfer of matter through hyperspace from one universe to another universe. Q: You mean to say that a "hyperspatial" vehicle could suddenly and brutally find itself transferred with its passengers to another part of the universe? A: More precisely, it could be an exchange between the same equivalent volumes of space, one belonging to the "cloth" and the other to its "lining." For a witness, this would be perceived as a rough dematerialization. The machine would make its trip through this twin space from its planet arriving at a place in the proximity of Earth. Q: But to make this trip, won't there always be an equal number of light years of distance to travel? A: Yes, if the "cloth and the lining" always behaved very nicely, superimposing one upon the other with perfect smoothness. But this can't always be the case in practice. In order to try to make some very abstract mathematical ideas simple, what we in the technical jargon call "fluctuation of gauge," I will continue to use the image of the cloth and Its lining. The American Cosmologist Misner has considered the case of a very turbulent cosmic fabric, both folded upon itself and creased. From time to time the cloth will be perfectly flat, but the lining creased or puckered. In such an instance, the distance from one part of the twin universe to the other will be drastically shortened, making a voyage realistically short. Another situation could arise in which the voyage would be lengthened by a factor of 10 or 100 or 1,000, making the voyage even less practical than it is now. Q: So it is this phenomenon that explains the otherwise incomprehensible wave of UFOs? They would take advantage of the moment when the trip would be the shortest? A: By my way of thinking, the UFO waves would be tied to a "turbulence in the gauge" of the universe. The voyage would only be possible when the "meteocosmic" conditions are good. The visitors would have limited time to make their investigation on our planet and would have to reembark precipitously in order to avoid the closing of the hole in hyperspace, otherwise they would be stuck here on Earth for a period of time that could be very long. This way of creasing the cloth of space like the folds of an accordion would not necessarily be isotropic, and I strongly doubt that it is: when the lining is creased in one direction or plane, the cloth is stretched in the perpendicular plane. Different types of extraterrestrials originating from planets in different locations in the heavens would thus manage to live and operate without ever meeting each other, at least until they meet on the Earth. It is quite an amusing idea that the Earth might be used as a sort of cosmic mailbox by extraterrestrial entities, who would find this as the means to communicate with each other! -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:310/8 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Interview with Jean-Pierre Petit - Part 5 Date: 10 Dec 90 20:48:00 GMT >>>>Petit Interview - Part 5 Continued<<<< Q: How do you explain the lack of contact between the visiting extraterrestrials and us? A: When two civilizations that are very different culturally and technologically meet, history teaches us that with rare exceptions (such as Japan) the more advanced literally dissolves the other. The introduction of exterior knowledge is comparable to a viral attack. In the majority of cases, this parasitic information totally disorganizes the infected social body, which dies. Q: From the point of view of the alien visitors, this lack of contact with us may be due to their behavior as concerned ethnologists who wish to avoid destroying the object of their studies. But in your book you insist that there Is a phenomenon shared by the majority of terrestrial that you call the "Immunological reflex." A: Yes. It is a rejection, pure and simple. There are two possible ways to react when we receive information which challenges our most deeply held values. The first is simply to reject. We say to ourselves: It is wrong, it is impossible. The second evasion Is very subtle. We "folklorize" the dissonant Information. And this folklorization can be accomplished In two ways. One way is to treat the subject with humor or ridicule, and it leads to themes such as ET (the movie) or "Little green men," (which have never been reported by witnesses). The other takes life in a more dramatic way, such as the movie "The Creature from Outer Space," or television series like The Invaders.n The "immunologic reaction" of scientists is negation of the phenomenon, pure and simple. Q: Have you thought of a scenario depicting the result of direct contact between us and extraterrestrials? A: Let's imagine that one of these famous triangular machines that was seen in 90% of the cases In Belgium lands in a field. What is going to happen? The owner of the farm will call the police. Then the police will call the military. They will send observers, who will report to the government. As a simple precautionary measure, the police will cordon off the area in a radius of 100 meters. In the hours that follow, curious members of the public will arrive, crating a fantastic traffic jam. Within the government,-there is a crisis meeting of the Cabinet. The members of the Cabinet hesitate, being unsure of what course of action to take. If the machine finally takes off, everything returns to normal order. But If It stays there, who, exactly, must establish contact, and how? Would that be the concern of the Ministry for National Defense, or the Ministry for Foreign Affairs, or the Tourist Office, or all three simultaneously? While these grave discussions are taking place In the halls of government, thousands of journalists have set up camp In the acres of land surrounding the landing site. Along the security perimeter, cameramen are elbow to elbow trying to catch the scoop of the Century. On all the Little access roads the columns of the curious cross each other on the way to the new center of pilgrimage. In the opposite direction you can see a true Exodus, with multitudes fleeing. Uncontrolled rumors race through the planet in every direction, Like electric discharges. The area of the landing site Is filled with entrepreneurs and hucksters, seeking to make a profit from the situation. The Vatican organizes a colloquium to determine if Christ died for the aliens, too. Little by little the knowledge of the alien presence filters into the public consciousness and produces a nationwide state of shock. People leave their work. The professor and his students question each other. The astronomers ask one another If it is still worth the trouble to look Into their telescopes. The stock market goes crazy. Q: It is truly a catastrophic scenario that you are proposing. A: I simply wanted to make you realize the incredible impact that this alien presence would provoke even before contact had taken place. Our society Is not prepared to meet face to face with such an event, and this applies to every country, not just France. And the thick silence that officialdom has maintained has not made the situation more tolerable. What Is actually happening on this planet? Our societies doubt more and more the validity of their political systems and ideologies. One feels that whole populations are ready to throw themselves toward the first "savior," the first demagogue, who appears on the scene. Q: Listening to you, it would seem more in the interest of public order if this contact could be avoided. A: In fact, the event in Belgium is a contact. Everything happened as if the machine that was intercepted on the night of March 30-31, 1990 had patiently waited, openly and deliberately, for the radar to have locked on. This real event, which is very difficult to contest, marks the transition from the hypothetical visitation by aliens to the real visitation. It can force movement within both the political and scientific worlds, and unblock imaginations and unleash creative new solutions. And I am not speaking merely of scientific and technological aspects. When man realizes that he Is not alone In the universe, this simple fact will be sufficient motivation to create philosophical and ethical ideas without precedent in our Intellectual history. -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:310/8 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Interview with Jean-Pierre Petit Part 6 Date: 10 Dec 90 20:49:00 GMT >>>>>Petit Interview Part 6 Cont<<<<< Q: As one who is firmly convinced of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations, you must be thrilled by a project such as SETI (Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence), whose aim It is to communicate with other worlds. A- The SETI program consists of trying to receive with the help of antennas radio signals sent by other planetary civilizations. So It turns out to be necessary to paint the antenna at the source of the signals, but by definition we don't know the source or location. As of now, about 200 stars have been listened to In this way. Na luck. The members of a radio astronomy symposium that met recently in the Alps calculated that for us to have a chance f intercepting one signal we would be required to listen to 200,000 stars. This would require a network of listening devices so large that the cost would be astronomical The problem is that the radio waves move at the speed of Light When we consider the vast distance across space, this is an extremely slow speed. And incidentally, if we are ever to intercept a message, the signal would have to be directed very precisely toward us. The fact is, Our antennas are not able to detect signals sent from a simple omnidirectional antenna tens of light years distant, such as for example the transmitters for the French radio stations. All this makes the issue of a project such as SETI extremely problematical it is highly probable that the program, now called "Mega SETi," will end up as a failure. But on the other hand the scientists are violently hostile to any appropriation of money to benefit research on UFOs, a subject which they do not consider serious. Yet the research done on the UFO problem has already borne fruit -- contrary to the experience with SETi. This is certainly a paradox Q: The Belgian wave of sightings is over, and we can't predict either when or where the next wave will occur So how, according to you, should UFO research be organized? A: Obviously, there is long term work to undertake. We will use the Mhd model to make concrete experimental tests of the ideas of the theoreticians. On the other hand the UFO phenomenon forces us to place into question all of our ideas about the universe, and even physics itself it is a fantastic "thought experiment," a true challenge to research, and it will be necessary to create within the CNRS a UFO study group consisting of high level researchers mathematicians, physicists, chemists, biochemists, psychologists, sociologists and so forth. in conjunction with that, we will need to build a real UFO "trap," not only to capture one, but to gather the knowledge that will leak out. The methodology in Belgium consisted of filling an airplane with every sort of apparatus, and having it ready to take off to study the UFO. This happened during the sightings On the Easter weekend, but, unfortunately, the UFO failed to cooperate and join the meeting. But this method should be systematically carried out throughout the world. Q: Aren't you interested in the marks found on the ground at the site of alleged landings? A: Yes, of course! During the last 35 years some private, 12 non-profit groups, to whom we must give recognition, have with pitifully meager means and in a totally honest manner gathered a minimal collection of information about landings. For these people the creation of GEPAN had been an immense hope, but they were quickly disappointed. Within CNRS there should be created a quick response team to investigate landing traces using all known means of analysis, physical or biochemical, and to simultaneously mobilize psychologists specializing in the interrogation of witnesses. We know of only one case of ground traces connected with the close range observation of a UFO landing, which has been subjected to serious study: the case in Trans en Provence, thanks to the work of Professor Bounias of INRA who incidentally has never been particularly interested in the UFO phenomenon. This quite complete study has demonstrated the existence of traumatization of the vegetation, remarkably well correlated with the distance of the traces from the point of the landing. The cause of the trauma remains unknown to this day. This type of study should have been carried out long ago. Other than biochemistry, there exist various other means of physical analysis which should be done systematically. An analysis with magnetic nuclear resonance, for example would permit us to know the nature of the magnetic field which irradiated the ground. The problem is simple: do we or do we not want to discover the key to the mystery of the UFOs? The cost of the creation and maintenance of a team of persons capable of responding to all reports of alleged landing spots would be relatively modest in comparison to the general research budget. Especially if this team could be reinforced by a volunteer network of ufologists. These volunteers could receive special training and work in cooperation with the police to perform preliminary investigation to screen out the false reports. If we would trust those people with a minimum of equipment, they could take measures to preserve and protect the site prior to the arrival of the researchers, and could also make a preliminary written report. -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:310/8 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Interview with Jean-Pierre Petit Conclusion Date: 10 Dec 90 20:49:00 GMT >>>>>>>Petit Interview Conclusion<<<<<< Q: In actuality, it appears that we are waiting for the scientific community to mobilize? A: In this case, one researcher has learned very quickly the importance of the problem. He is Andrei Sakharov This is how he ended his Nobel Prize acceptance speech: "Thousands of years ago, the human tribe suffered great privations in its struggle for life. Even then it was not only important to know how to handle a club, but also to have the ability to think intelligently, to take into consideration the collective knowledge and experience hoarded by the tribe, and to develop the basis of cooperation with other tribes. Today, the human race must confront an analogous ordeal. Several other civilizations could exist in the infinity of space, among which might be societies more established and wise and more 'accomplished' than ours. I support a cosmological hypothesis in Which the development of the universe repeats itself over and over, infinitely, but following certain essential characteristics. These other alien civilizations, some of whom are 'highly accomplished, ' are inscribed an infinite number of times on the pages 'preceding' and 'following' us in the Book of the Universe." This was written in 1975. END -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:310/8 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Phenom 12-7-90 Date: 11 Dec 90 03:08:00 GMT > Greetings fellow observers! What was it that the early morning crowd > saw this morning at 0552 hrs near Plymouth, Michigan? One eyewitness > reported to a local allnews radio station, that he saw a bluish-green > oval shaped object, emitting sparks(?) and in a crash-like trajectory. > He said he thought at first that it might have been a helicopter > crashing, but said the shape (or something) changed his mind. Sounded > pretty shook up. Later I saw a ten second sound bite on CH7 which did > not elaborate. No news re: any debris or ground indentations. > Anyone hear anything? I have a very sketchy report that it was an unexpected Russian rocket re-entry. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:310/8 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Prof. Jean-Pierre Petit Date: 11 Dec 90 03:13:00 GMT > I have just uploaded PETIT.UFO to Alpha. I scanned the file into the > system, and I will be interested in comments. This could prove to be a > very significant addition to the data base. Petit is no lightweight > scientific type, the man carries a very heavy reputation in Europe. I have just read the file, and IF what you say of his reputation is true, then it is a significant interview. However, I have some nagging doubts...it seems we've been this way before. For one thing, his science sounds rather....well, Lazarish, to coin a phrase. I mean, I have no science background, yet I found his concepts simple to understand...too simple. Simply suck the built-up air molecules through the craft, creating a vacuum in front of it, hence no sonic boom? That sounds like a schoolboy idea. Can anyone out there tell me if this concept has some validity? For another, he seemed to talk in absolutes a great deal more than I am comfortable hearing from a scientist. I will be interested in hearing others' comments on this file. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:310/8 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Phoenix Skeptics cont. Date: 11 Dec 90 03:17:00 GMT > Just as an aside, just what do these folks think all this is? They are now willing to admit that they don't know, but since its very unlikely that it is ETs, they don't think its anything to worry themselves about. I know, I know, but that's almost word for word what one of them told me. > I do not > recall anyone being completely dogmatic that these things are ET, but > how can they refute that these objects are still flying about, > apparently immune to current state of the art Military aircraft? They don't refute it. They just don't care. (And there is a subliminal message that they don't care because they know someday Phil Klass will explain it all.) -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:310/8 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott.Savage@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Scott Savage) Subject: Re: Omni Magazine - Special Ufo Edition Date: 11 Dec 90 03:56:00 GMT Paul, I've got an original article on the EFF deal. The book was (is) a supplement to a cyberpunk role-playing game. The author credits a group of hackers with supplying information, sort of the way an attorney will use an expert witness. The investigation was pretty ghastly - the guy lost major amounts of equipment as well as the drafts of his manuscript - all on speculation. If you want, I can dig up the article and forward it to you. OMNI didn't do much justice to the case. --Scott -- Scott Savage - via FidoNet node 1:310/8 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Scott.Savage@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Prof. Jean-pierre Petit Date: 11 Dec 90 05:59:00 GMT > Simply suck the built-up air molecules through the > craft, creating a vacuum in front of it, hence no > sonic boom? That sounds like a schoolboy idea. Can > anyone out there tell me if this concept has some > validity? For another, he seemed to talk in absolutes > a great deal more than I am comfortable hearing from a > scientist. I will be interested in hearing others' > comments on this file. I talked with Roger Black voice tonight. He has not read the file yet, but he states that this idea has been around for a while now. It seems to be viable. Anyway, let's see what else comes through. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:310/8 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: conncoll.bitnet!gateh@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM Subject: Re: Omni Magazine - Special UFO issue Date: 11 Dec 90 16:54:22 GMT From: gateh@conncoll.bitnet Mike Corbin writes: + Thank you for the update, Mike. I purchased a copy of it, and was not + too impressed with the superficial nature of the coverage. What does + others think about it? I borrowed it from a friend, mainly to see the crop circle photos, which indeed were interesting. I thought the accompanying article was relatively unbiased, but still in keeping with the magazine's current penchant for 'Lite'(tm) journalism. Some of the other things I read were pretty silly; my reading pleasure was consummated by the thoroughly incredible 'Are you an alien?' questionnaire. Why _The Weekly World News_ hasn't picked up on this I can't imagine. It truly saddens me to see this type of thing in what was once a very good periodical - I was a charter subscriber way back when, and the first several years were solid and thought-provoking. Then, I don't know what happened... Paul Faeder writes: + The other interesting and thought provoking and slightly frightening article + was about the Electronic Frontier Foundation. For those that haven't read the + article, the US Secret Service suspected a computer software games + manufacturer of producing a game that was 'a handbook for computer crime' + (supposedly said by one of the agents). They proceeded to confiscate + computers and software. All of this is based on suspicion. The frightening + part is in wondering how far the Govt. can go with this; not only in this + incident but what about computer networks and BBS's? I didn't see this article, however I have read about this elsewhere. I have a copy of an excellent article by John Perry Barlow published in _The Whole Earth Review_ which deals with government involvement in 'cyberspace' (aka 'the nets') in general and this case in particular. I have attempted to send a copy to Paul, but it bounced as it was too large. If appropriate, perhaps it should be posted in several parts for upload so as to be easy on the nets (moderator?). Cheers! - Gregg Gregg TeHennepe | SysAdm, Academic Computing | Yes, but this gateh@conncoll.bitnet | Connecticut College, New London, CT | one goes to 11... -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don.Ecker@f22.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker) Subject: ParaNet Date: 11 Dec 90 01:36:00 GMT > My thanks to Don Ecker who has demonstrated his dedication > to ParaNet by uploading the first text file scanned with a > Scanman Optical Scanner and using OCR software. This Mike, you are welcome! > Don will be scanning a lot of text files in the future for > ParaNet. Mike, does this mean I have a new job?? Don -- Don Ecker - via FidoNet node 1:310/8 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Ecker@f22.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Delton@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton) Subject: Re: Prof. Jean-Pierre Petit Date: 12 Dec 90 04:43:00 GMT I had the same feeling when reading Petit's suggestion on sucking up the air molecules. For one thing, it's hardly a new idea. I think it was first suggested back in the fifties that one way around a sonic boom and surface heating was to make the surface of the wing porous enough that the air could be sucked thru it. Problem is that you have to suck one heckof a lot of air into the wing and then what do you do with it??? It has to go out somewhere. IF the ET's have a way to avoid sonic booms I would think it would be a little more esoteric then egg sucking wings. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:310/8 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Re: Omni Magazine - Special Ufo Issue Date: 11 Dec 90 08:41:00 GMT > From: gateh@conncoll.bitnet You can send it to our site: cyrill@scicom.alphacdc.com ^^^^^^ (I changed this to me (Cyro) so if it needs) (splitting, I can do so. -Cyro) Cyro will know what to do with it. Thank you. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:310/8 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: mcorbin@paranet.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************