Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 383 Thursday, March 28th 1991 Today's Topics: The mutilation factor (Conclusion) physics/translation/lost uploads/etc Openmindedness and psychic phenomena Indian has UFO's??? Gravitational Magnetism Re: Hello & Have You Heard??? Info About Mars Missions Mars Missions Part 2 Indian Has Ufo's??? Mar's Mission Re: Rick Redux Re: Indian has UFO's??? Re: Mars Missions Part 2 Hoagland's Mars Indiana Reports ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: The mutilation factor (Conclusion) Date: 26 Mar 91 06:10:00 GMT <<>> In January, 1989, it came to the attention of the MUFON State Director of Idaho, Mr. Don Mason, that cattle mutilations had occurred once again in the southeastern section of Idaho. After an investigation by a MUFON investigator, the facts were as follows. The animals ( two cattle, same night, but each owned by different ranchers ) were "somehow" killed, sexual organs removed, body fluids drained, patches of hide "surgically" removed. All the appearances of what is today considered to be a classic case of animal mutilation. As of this date ( February 15, 1989 ) the final lab reports are not back yet, but already the Sheriffs Department has labeled it a "cult killing." No tracks, tire or human, around the animals even though it had just rained, no unusual activity reported by the ranchers that evening, and one animal was found next to an occupied house. One of the ranchers admitted that this was the second time he had been "hit" by the mysterious mutilators. The last incident had only been a bit over a year previously, and they were worried enough that all had their "deer rifle" within easy reach. After having been personally involved in an investigation of cattle mutilations as a police officer back in 1982, I was very familiar with the "cult" theory of perpetrators. The Idaho Department of Law Enforcement drags it out every time there is a new rash of mutilations. The problem is, and every one is aware of it, that no one has yet been brought to trial, or arrested yet for these crimes. Out here in the west, people know that you are flirting with a ranchers bullet if you are caught fooling around with the ranchers cattle. They are his livelihood, and he will defend it. Yet, the mutilations keep occurring, and no one is any the wiser, or are they? With the subject of animal mutilations fresh in everyones mind, I was once again speaking to Don Mason, when he informed me that the investigator that had been assigned to the above mentioned case had come across a very mysterious death of a man back in 1979. According to the report, two hunters in the Bliss and Jerome area of Idaho had literally stumbled across the nude body of a man that had been hideously mutilated. The body was in the literal middle of nowhere, nude except for a pair of underpants, his sexual organs had been removed, his lips sliced off, and several other classic mutilation cuts. Although he was in very rugged country, his bare feet were not marked as if he had walked in that terrain, but yet no other tracks, animal or human were evident anywhere. After the police were notified, an intensive search was mounted, and miles away, the mans possessions were recovered, yet no one yet knows how the body ended up where it was found, or even more importantly, what happened to him. It should be noted that this area also had over the years, many unexplained UFO reports and cattle mutilations. Now I must explain that I had very mixed feelings about whether I wished to attempt to explore this subject any further, or allow sleeping dogs to lie. On the one hand, I wanted more than anything to discover just what was occurring, and on the other, I realized that this had the potential to backfire on someone that disturbed the status quo. I was familiar with reports of human abductions and mutilations that had surfaced in the last several years in reports such as the Lear documents, Grudge 13 reports and others, but yet I was not sure what I believed, or even if there was anything to believe. I ran across a friend that was still employed with a police department in this area who was a detective. I had mentioned to him the recent cattle mutilations, and what I suspected in the above mentioned case of a human that had been mutilated. Scot had also been involved in the last several years with several cases of mutilations that he had been called upon to investigate, always with negative results. He was as curious about this phenomenon as I was, and since he was still an active duty police officer, he had access to the department computer, to access the NCIC system that is maintained in Washington D. C. by the FBI. After giving Scot the criteria for a search of unexplained human deaths, that involved factors of mutilation, I asked that the search go back to at least 1973, involving this area of the Northwest. Scot ( not his real name ) ran the request through the department computer. As he mentioned at the time, he had expected to get realms of reports back that we would have to wade through, to get to the reports that would be are further study. Scot ended up requesting that the inquiry be run back to 1970, and involve not only Idaho, but also Utah, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington states. Because of the magnitude of this search, Scot stated that it would take about one week to get the results back into his department. As a side note, for anyone that is not familiar with the NCIC system, it is a national data bank for Law enforcement agencies all across the United States. It is maintained and controlled by the Federal Burea of Investigation, at FBI headquarters, in Washington D. C. On the 14th of February, Scot contacted me in person, and appeared very troubled. His exact words were that "something is really screwy, Don." "I got the request back from NCIC on Monday, and there has gotta be something wrong. They told me that they had NO unsolved murders at all, zero, that met that criteria. THAT ANY FURTHER REQUESTS WILL HAVE TO BE MADE BY VOICE, TELEPHONE CALL, WITH PROPER AUTHORIZATION. Somebody is sitting on something, big as Hell." I also knew that something was as screwy as hell. After all, anybody that has had any dealing with law enforcement knows about the "Green River Killer" in Washington state. This serial killer is credited with at least 30 to 40 murders of young women, and to this date, the case is as big a mystery as ever. Many of the killings showed some types of mutilation, and if nothing else, at least some of these homicides should have shown up. Once more, as a side note, I had been warned by a prominent UFOlogist, that there was a lid "screwed down tighter than you would believe in regards to human mutes." I also was warned that in order to break through the secrecy, was going to be a long and sometimes weary job, but that if enough persistence was applied, then it was possible to get to the bottom of this facet of the UFO enigma. Do I think that this can be solved, along with the rest of the puzzle? Yes, I do, because I think that the secrecy can only be maintained for so long, and then no longer. I also believe very strongly that only if the entire UFO community works in concert will this be accomplished, and the infighting and arguments MUST CEASE for the good of us all. On the ParaNet system and on Compuserve, I wrote and uploaded a file entitled LIGHT.TXT, and in UFO Magazine Vol. 3, No. 5 I called for a UFO summit to be held in order to get the UFO community organized and to present a unified front. Only by a unified front, and calling for Congressional hearings, will this lid ever get torn off, and the truth that is suppressed be brought to the light of day. Any help from the members will be greatly appreciated, and I can be reached at ParaNet RHO at the following number: 1)208)338)9187. Also I can be reached on Compuserve by EMail, and my user number is: 74270,3360. Anyone with ANY INFORMATION is requested to contact me at the above addresses as soon as possible. The secrecy game has gone on long enough. It is past time to get to the bottom of this. Forty years IS LONG ENOUGH. Don Ecker END PARANET FILE NAME: HUMMUTE.TXT -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: boulder!violet.berkeley.edu!chalmers Subject: physics/translation/lost uploads/etc Date: 26 Mar 91 14:53:13 GMT From: boulder!violet.berkeley.edu!chalmers (John H. Chalmers Jr.) RE Kurt Lochner's comments of 3/25/91: it may have not been clear in my original upload, but the gravitational magnetic field is theorized to be produced by accelerated masses and is only an analog of the EM magnetic field. Forward's General Relativistic anti-gravity reactor is meant as an example of why I consider space-warps and anti-gravity devices to be improbable with human scale technology. Neither he nor I consider them very possible. The toroid must be wound with a hollow tube as it is a stellar mass of nuclear density , not electrons, that has to flow through it. I appreciate your point about the Planck mass, but I believe I am right that the gravitational coupling constant is 38 or 40 ord mag's less than that of the EM (or Strong Nuclear force) and the permeability of space is very low to the g field, so very large moving masses are necessary. My point was that this is real physics fearlessly taken to the extreme limits of extrapolation and it still does not make basement space-warps and anti-grav devices plausible. One more point: Kurt's reply implies that I might think '_gravity is a resultant of space and time._' I didn't respond to this statement when originally made by another member on the net because I don't understand what it means. I follow the orthodox view that gravity is due to the curvature of space-time and that it should be formalizable as a relativistic QM theory involving the exchange of spin-2 gravitons. New Subject: I'll be happy to translate occasional interesting articles, but my time is somewhat limited, despite my interest in the subject matter. Also, the polish and probably the accuracy of the translations will depend on the time I can spend on them. I'm not a professional translator, however, but I can and occasionally do read materials in my field in French, Italian, and German. BTW, I have a couple of uploads lost in the net somewhere. One was a questionnaire from Mike and the other was about a recent 'New Age and Truth about UFO's' conference in San Diego. I hope they will eventually surface as I didn't save the original texts --- John -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Openmindedness and psychic phenomena Date: 26 Mar 91 15:43:00 GMT > > You might also check out a book, THE WORLD OF TED SERIOS (*Second* > Edition), by Jule Eisenbud, M.D., (C) 1989, published by McFarland > & Co., Inc, Box 611, Jefferson, NC 28640. It is a fascinating > account of one of the most copiously evidential parapsychological > cases on record. It also contains a scathing account of James > Randi's clumsy attempts to squirm out of his own claims and 'offers' > with regard to this case. This book (not to be confused with the > *first* edition, published in 1967) was published privately and is > in limited circulation, but should be available from the publisher. Dan: I loved the rest of your message, but could you encapsulate for us just how Eisenbud overcomes the "serios" charge that Serios used a "gizmo" to create the "psychic photos"? It was my understanding that whenever Serios was persuaded (usually with great difficulty) to give up the gizmo (a cylinder in which it was alleged he secreted small photographic slides), that he was consistently unable to "perform". Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shing@p0.f13.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Shing) Subject: Indian has UFO's??? Date: 26 Mar 91 23:15:56 GMT I've heard that southern Indiana is a hot spot for UFO activity. I'am from Tennessee myself, so my experiences in southern Indiana history is very limited. The UFO information I've heard is just hearsay. Are there any hardcopies? -- Shing - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Shing@p0.f13.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kurt.Lochner@f22.n14766.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Kurt Lochner) Subject: Gravitational Magnetism Date: 25 Mar 91 08:56:56 GMT You asked.... > > > > > > It might be interesting to consider gravity as the > > > resultant of mass and time. > > > > > Nope, not a chance, not even a small probability. > > Why not, Kurt? Please tell us more! > Because of the orders of magnitude (ie: 10's places) difference between the intrinsic energy values at the atomic/subatomic levels. Between gravity and matter, there's a difference of 10^19 electron volt ( eV ). Suggested reading: Gravity, an Old Man's Toy by A. Zee Great reading, physics in plain olde english and proper explainations as to why gravity has nothing to do with the "spatio-temporal" effects of mass. -- Kurt Lochner - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Kurt.Lochner@f22.n14766.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Elizabeth.Anderson@p0.f30.n134.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Elizabeth Anderson) Subject: Re: Hello & Have You Heard??? Date: 27 Mar 91 00:52:00 GMT Hello again, Clark! Here's some poop on the Nahhani National Park. Established 1972; World Heritage Site. 120 species of bird; 32 of mammal. River - 320 kms; park area 4700 kms. Hot springs and Viriginia Falls, 100 m deep. Ice caves. Nearest town is Fort Simpson, NWT. Your best bet would be to write to the Fort Simpson Chamber of Commerce, Fort Simpson, NWT, Canada and ask for information. Personally, I find the stuff about bigfoot/feets being there kinda hard to believe - there are not a lot of people up there to report things, and the phenomenon seems to be human-centred. I looked at some maps - no roads. Hope this helps. Elizabeth P.S. Great stories about a lost gold mine and headless prospectors, though! -- Elizabeth Anderson - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Elizabeth.Anderson@p0.f30.n134.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Info About Mars Missions Date: 27 Mar 91 10:39:00 GMT * Forwarded from "Fido UFO Echo" * Originally from Gregg Gillis * Originally dated 03-22-91 18:00 I had read a post a while ago on this echo about how mysterious it was that several Mars missions had failed unexpectedly... and how that might be signs of 'alien' tamperings (or so it was sort of suggested). Well, I have a list of recent Mars missions listed here.... look and draw your own conclusions. Alien 'tamperings' or just plain machine failure..... Reference: 'Return to the Red Planet' by Eric Burgess, Columbia University Press, ISBN: 0-231-06942-1, (C) 1990. p. 39. Name Origin Launch Comments ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 'no no name USSR Oct 10 1960 FAILED at launch no name USSR Oct 14 1960 FAILED at launch no name USSR Oct 24 1962 FAILED in Earth orbit MARS 1 no name USSR Nov 1 1962 Lost communications no name USSR Nov 4 1962 FAILED in Earth orbit Mariner 3 USA no name USSR Nov 5 1964 FAILED at launch Mariner 4 USA Nov 28 1964 * First pictures of Mars Zond 2 USSR Nov 30 1964 Lost communications Zond 3 USSR Jul 18 1965 Lost communications Mariner 6 USA Feb 24 1969 * Many pictures of Mars Mariner 7 USA Mar 27 1969 * Many pictures of Mars no name USSR mar 27 1969 FAILED at launch Mariner 8 USA May 8 1971 FAILED at launch KOSMOS 419 USSR May 10 1971 FAILED at launch MARS 2 USSR May 19 1971 Lander FAILED MARS 3 USSR May 28 1971 Orbiter worked 3 months, lander FAILED after 20 seconds. Continued.... -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Mars Missions Part 2 Date: 27 Mar 91 10:39:00 GMT * Forwarded from "Fido UFO Echo" * Originally from Gregg Gillis * Originally dated 03-22-91 18:09 Mariner 9 USA May 30 1971 * Many pictures of Mars MARS 4 USSR Jul 21 1973 FAILED to orbit but returned photos MARS 5 USSR Jul 25 1973 FAILED to orbit more than 10 days MARS 6 USSR Aug 5 1973 Lander CRASHED MARS 7 USSR Aug 9 1973 Lander MISSED Mars by 808 miles VIKING 1 USA Aug 20 1975 * worked great! VIKING 2 USA Sep 9 1975 * worked great! Phobos 1 USSR Jul 7 1988 Command Error turned antenna away from Earth - all communications lost. Phobos 2 USSR Jul 12 1988 Contact lost 2 days from orbit. My apologies to SYSOPS and the Echo Moderator for this length, but I thought it might be interesting and useful in determining the possibilities of 'extra-terrestrial' tampering with our planetary probes. From what I can see... the trend is FOR A MISSION TO FAIL. Of the 17 USSR missions, only 2 might be considered partially successful. That doesn't sound like tampering by aliens... sounds like poor equipment instead. And, often, we take for granted that 'we ought to be able' to easily send a probe up there.. well folks, try it yourself and then decide how likely it really is for a mission of your own to fail. Cheers! -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Indian Has Ufo's??? Date: 27 Mar 91 10:44:00 GMT > I've heard that southern Indiana is a hot spot for UFO activity. I'am > from Tennessee myself, so my experiences in southern Indiana history is > very limited. The UFO information I've heard is just hearsay. Are > there any hardcopies? Indiana has had a good history of sightings that go back to the 50s. There are some references to sightings mentioned in Len Stringfield's book, Situation Red. BTW, we prefer that you use your real name here instead of the alias. It makes things a bit more personal and friendly. Thanks, Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Mar's Mission Date: 27 Mar 91 10:45:00 GMT Could someone provide further information on the previous postings concerning the failures experienced with Mars-related missions? Thanks, Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Cockrell@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (John Cockrell) Subject: Re: Rick Redux Date: 27 Mar 91 17:47:00 GMT Well, thank God you finally brought that out into the open!. I've been reading the ongoing battle between all of you people and it just ocurred to me that it seems a shame that, Heaven forbid anyone should have an actual opinion about something. Everyone seems afraid of giving their gut feelings on a subject in fear of "offending" the other party, with the exception of you to a degree. I mean, I'll come right out and say it, I THINK BILL COOPER IS A COMPLETE FRAUD AND APPEARS TO HAVE SERIOUS NEUROTIC PROBLEMS TO BOOT, AND YET I CONSIDER MYSELF QUITE OPENMINDED ON THE SUBJECT OF UFOS! I've had 2 ce1k's but I must side with you on the great majority of your views. I'm really surprised at the amount of obviously, unmistakeably foolish theories presented on what I thought was a more serious board than I thought. Now I guess it's up to the powers that be to decide if I'm "flaming" Cooper and bar me for eternity from this board, but it is my honest opinion, based upon my personal research into this particular phenomenon, and if I try to call in the future and find my login inactivated, that would smack of a certain lack of openmindedness... Just Wonderin', J.C. -- John Cockrell - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Cockrell@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Graham@p0.f13.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Graham) Subject: Re: Indian has UFO's??? Date: 28 Mar 91 03:25:11 GMT * Message sent by Shing on 26 Mar 91 to All: >I've heard that southern Indiana is a hot spot for UFO activity. Since you are familiar with the Bloomington, IN area, you might find it interesting to note that the late Frank Edwards, in his book "Flying Saucers - Serious Business" documents a case of a sighting in none other than Bloomington. To quote a small portion: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Many of the witnesses whom I have personally interviewed about their sightings reports of UFO's have mentioned both the buzzing and the apparent heat wave effect." "Among them was a group of four boys who in 1956 reported to police in Bloomington, Indiana, that they had been fishing in an abandoned quarry on the northwest side of that city, and that about 3 o'clock in the morning they had been awakened by a great buzzing sound accompanied by a blinding white light. They had jumped up in time to see a circular object of dazzling whiteness moving overhead very slowly. It was so bright that they could detect no shape to it through the glare. It crossed the quarry pit in which they were fishing and slowly descended among some sycamore trees near a stone mill. The boys ran around the quarry and kept the mikll between themselves and the blinding light. When they got up courage enough to venture out onto the railroad tracks beside the mill, they could see that the object was only about fifteen feet above the ground and that it was directly above the convergence of two railroad switch tracks, about one hundred feet from the mill itself. The boys could feel heat when the light struck them, but there was no sound while the thing hovered. After a couple of minutes of this, the thing emitted a tremendous whine and hum--or "buzzing"--as two of the boys said, and then rose straight up until it was out of sight. The four boys then ran all the way to the police station, about two miles away, to report what they had seen." "I questioned them on the day following the report and they took me to the scene. There I found that the night watchman at the mill had seen both the object and the boys, but had not reported it for fear of ridicule. I also found that, at the point where the boys said the object had hovered over the rails, the trees were seared on the sides facing the clearing, but not on any other side. The leaves which would have been exposed to heat had there been an object there such as described were, indeed, withered and dying." "Could this have been due to heat from a locomotive moving freight cars to and from the mill? The watchman said that such could not have been the case, since the mill had been closed several months, and he pointed out that the rust on the rails clearly supported this statement." "Bloomington police had the boys involved in this case examined by a psychiatrist from Indiana University two days after the reported incident. The psychiatrist reported to police that he could not explain what the boys had seen, but he firmly believed that they were telling the truth about their experience." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- After reading this story, it is clear that there is a lot of information here. In fact, I have a pretty good idea exactly where this sighting occurred. I can think of at least 4 stone mills in the area, but only two fit the description geographically. Additionally, it was supposedly reported to the police. Therefore, records must exist. This should be easily verifiable. Regards, -Jim Graham -- Jim Graham - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Graham@p0.f13.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Graham@p0.f13.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Graham) Subject: Re: Mars Missions Part 2 Date: 28 Mar 91 03:46:16 GMT * Message sent by Michael Corbin on 27 Mar 91 to All: > From what I can see... the trend is FOR A MISSION TO FAIL. Of the >17 USSR > missions, only 2 might be considered partially successful. That >doesn't > sound like tampering by aliens... sounds like poor equipment instead. > And, often, we take for granted that 'we ought to be able' to easily >send > a probe up there.. well folks, try it yourself and then decide how I thought about this too, Mike. There's just one pin in the hiney-bone that I can think of though. If I recall, the Soviets have had quite a bit of success with their Venus probes (correct me if I'm wrong). Granted, the distances are different, Venus is an inner planet and Mars is an outer planet, thus necessitating different methods for achieving planetary orbit, but the technology is basically the same. Any thoughts? -Jim Graham -- Jim Graham - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Graham@p0.f13.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Houston.Mayer@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Houston Mayer) Subject: Hoagland's Mars Date: 24 Mar 91 01:44:17 GMT I have recieved a badly formatted letter from Alan Shawn Feinstein Associates, Cranston RI 02905 telling of a release that explains why the Jan 6th NASA briefing was cancelled. The letter tells me that this was quite a revelation, and tries to sell stamps. If anyone knows whats going on, let me know. I'm so cornfused. -- Houston Mayer - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Houston.Mayer@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ParaNet.Information.Service@f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) Subject: Indiana Reports Date: 28 Mar 91 06:05:00 GMT Here is a news clipping regarding a sighting in Indiana. This file was provided by ParaNet(sm) Information Service and its network of international affiliates. You may freely distribute this file as long as this header remains intact. Contributed by: ============================================================ For further information on ParaNet(sm), contact: Michael Corbin ParaNet Information Service P.O. Box 928 Wheatridge, CO 80034-0928 or Netmail 1:104/422 ============================================================ UFOS, ODD LIGHTS REPORTED OVER CULVER News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana - November 19, 1990 CULVER (AP) -- Reported sightings of unidentified bright lights in the sky have dozens of residents in this small town thinking about close encounters, possibly of the third kind. Since early October, talk has centered on strange light patterns hovering above the town's landscape in northern Indiana, 12 miles southwest of Plymouth in Marshall County. Melanie Wagner said she has seen lights about three or four times a week, usually around 8:15 p.m. while driving along Indiana 10, a desolate country road. She said she first saw the lights October 4 and has been seeing them every clear night since then. "I've seen lights suspended in the sky, then go up and down, and go in all directions," Wagner said. "I've seen them turn off all their lights and appear to have disappeared. And then turn them back on several hundred feet across the sky." Wagner said she has seen four to five different light patterns, but that the most common is a triangle-shaped. Other people have reported "bow ties" and circular patterns. Fred Karst, editor of the Culver Citizen, said his newspaper has received "quite a number of calls" about possible unidentified flying objects in recent weeks. He said he even saw some strange lights in the sky the evening of October 4, the night of Wagner's first sighting. "I don't know whether it was a UFO or not, but at the time, I thought it was a meteor," he said. "It descended in the sky above me down toward the horizon. "I didn't attach any greater significance to it until I started hearing other people had been seeing different things that same night." While some people speculate the lights are military aircraft, officials at Grissom Air Force Base, two counties south of Culver, say that's not possible. "Nothing that they (citizens) describe meets the description of what we would be flying out here," said Lt. Bill Harrison, a public information officer with Grissom. He said the base flies KC-135 strato tankers (similar to a Boeing 707) and A-10 Thunderbolt II attack aircraft. Capt. Cathi Kiger of the Indiana National Guard said flares are often used for training exercise and on ranges when firing artillery, "but I can't find anything that we might have done that would have contributed to these lights." Police Chief Jim Buroughs of nearby Argos said there are lots of "rumors on the streets, but I haven't seen anything yet." Gary Flagg, a security guard from Argos, said he has seen something -- and often. He said he has been keeping a log since he first spotted the lights March 7. He was driving to work at 9:45 p.m., he says, when he saw a white, triangular-shaped light pattern. "I just stopped on 17th Road (in Marshall County) and got out of the car and watched," he said. "That one was about 500 feet over the top of the car," he said, reading from his log. "It moved real slow, extremely slow. I don't even know how it stayed in the air." Flagg didn't report the sighting to police, but did confide in his wife. Then on October 3 and 5, he was driving with his family when the triangle-shaped lights appeared again. His sister, Cindy Flagg, a preschool teacher who describes herself as a "skeptic," also saw them. "There was a triangular thing going over. It had three or four lights....It was going really slowly and there was no sound," she said. A common place to watch has been the Poplar Grove United Methodist Church and cemetery, located along Indiana 10. END PARANET FILE NAME: 111990IN.UFO -- ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: ParaNet(sm).Information.Service@f422.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************