Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 420 Saturday, June 8th 1991 Today's Topics: Valle Interview HARD COPY BOOBOO! Re: FLIGHT 19 Re: Welcome to Paranet Re: Paranet Newsletter 414 Re: Miscellaneous Tab A - Robertson Panel Tab A - Robertson Panel, (2) Tab A - Robertson Panel, (Conclusion) Re: Paranet Newsletter 414 Reply "Martian" Chronicles Re: INFO: Clandestine Mars Observer Launch?? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff) Subject: Valle Interview Date: 6 Jun 91 02:24:00 GMT George Earley's interview with Dr. Jacques Vallee (ParaNet file number 01154) was for the most part accurate in describing the current state of affairs in contemporary ufological circles. However, I must disagree with a statement Dr. Valle made in regard to the beliefs and convictions of Isaac Asimov and Carl Sagan. Dr. Vallee stated (in considering Sagan's and Asimov's knowledge of the UFO phenomenon) that "...They've < Sagan and Asimov > never taken time to study the cases themselves. All they know about it is what they read in the National Enquirer..." I must admit that I too don't agree with everything that Sagan and Asimov say, but do you seriously believe that these two respected men glean their data from the tabloids? As the file header states, "...we must begin to police our own backyard...", so let's get our act together folks! Sheldon -- Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: HARD COPY BOOBOO! Date: 30 May 91 20:58:00 GMT > Where was the real photograph? Yep, where's the beef? jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: Re: FLIGHT 19 Date: 31 May 91 16:58:01 GMT > Last off topic message to Fla. I stood on the road (Collins > Blvd?) and it was raining on one side, and dry on the other > side, Miami Beach. Typical Florida. > I have not had time to impliment my "UFO Photos" yet, but came > up with a third method last week. As soon as I can make some, > I'll try to send them off to you, without telling how it was > done. Sounds interesting. I think that if either of us ever manage to photograph a real ufo, the fact that we've been discussing how to fake them will probably be trotted out as evidence of a hoax. ;-) Have you noticed that one of the main objections to Ed's photos is that the craft looks too hokey to be real? Of course the F-117 doesn't much look like it would fly either. jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: Welcome to Paranet Date: 6 Jun 91 00:40:00 GMT Hi David, Thanks for the informative write-up/short biography you did of yourself. This field attracts people of all ages, and I envy you your early start. See you, Linda -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: postmaster@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM Subject: Re: Paranet Newsletter 414 Date: 6 Jun 91 16:52:35 GMT From: Paul Carr I am employed at GE Astro Space in East Windsor, New Jersey. We are the prime contractor for the Mars Observer spacecraft. I think I can report with a high degree of confidence that it is here, and is not ready to fly. It is scheduled for a Titan III launch. This is a big vehicle, and is very difficult to covertly launch. Also, The only Titan III pad at the Cape is down for repairs. The only other U.S. vehicle that could launch it is STS (well, Titan IV also). It might just be launchable on an Ariane 44L, but those launches are all very public. A Soviet Proton or Energia could conceivably get MO to Mars, but that strains credibility even further - and I think that by now credibility is past the breaking point. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Re: Miscellaneous Date: 6 Jun 91 19:17:00 GMT > I'll send you the entire article so you can see the Declaration in > the context of the article. > Expect a snail in a few days. :-) Thanks Linda. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) Subject: Tab A - Robertson Panel Date: 6 Jun 91 19:40:00 GMT (C) 1991 ParaNet(sm) Information Service. All Rights Reserved. **************************************************************** ParaNet File Number: 00229 DATE OF UPLOAD: June 18, 1990 ORIGIN OF UPLOAD: ParaNet Administration/Los Angeles, CA CONTRIBUTED BY: ======================================================== The following file contains what appears to be Tab A of the findings of the Robertson Panel in 1953. The Robertson Panel was a highly controversial meeting which was conducted under the veil of a scientific panel, however it was later reported that the Central Intelligence Agency actually conducted and possibly influenced the panel's findings, and that the whole purpose was mainly for the benefit of public relations. Although the document appears to be authentic, ParaNet strongly advises that the reader of this document take into consideration the possibility that it is a fake consistent with the rumors that have circulated among the UFO community over the years that the CIA actually released a "dummy" document to conceal the real findings of the panel. ================================================================= TAB A 1. Motion Pictures, Trementon, Utah This case involves the sighting and photographing (Kodachrome Film) of ten bright lights moving across the sky on 2 July 1952 in rough formation. Source is a Chief Photographer's Mate, USN, with 17 years photographic experience. The local time was 1110; weather conditions bright, clear, no clouds. Objects appeared to be "milling about" while traveling in a westerly direction across the sky. Source was driving along the road when the sighting occurred. He stopped the car and photographed the event with his personal camera. Toward the end of the sighting, one object separated from the rest and reversed course across the sky. Status: ATIC Photographic Laboratory examination of the film resulted in following conclusions: a. 10 objects, all alike in movement and size. b. Decidedly improbable that they are birds or balloons. c. Exact nature cannot be determined, because they are visible only as small spots of light. It can be deduced, however, that they are either non-spherical in shape and similar to bright metal in reflectance or else variably self-luminous. Objects which follow similar courses show similar brightness fluctuations which could be caused by their taking similar flight attitudes. d. Apparently a coordination of movement to some extent among these objects. They seem to move in formations which are probably 3-dimensional in arrangement. e. The movements suggest flight paths consisting of skew curves in space. f. The single object which reversed course remained reasonably uniform in brightness. It followed a nearly straight line path with reasonable uniformity of motion at an angular velocity of about 2.1 degrees per second. (This is equivalent to the following speeds: 37 mph @ 500 yards; 75 mph @ 1000 yards; 375 mph @ 5000 yards; 758 mph @ 10,000 yards; etc.). g. It would probably be extremely difficult to imitate this photography for fraudulent purposes. This film is currently under examination by the U.S. Navy Photo Interpretation Laboratory, Anacostia. Estimated completion date: 15 January 1953. 2. Bright Light sighted from Presque Isle and Limestone Air Force Bases, [unknown] This sighting occurred the night of 10-11 October 1952 from 2300 to 0300 local time, by observers at the weather stations at these Air Force Bases. The description of the light was "circular orange object with four green lights nearby." Theodolites sightings of elevation and azimuth were obtained. Weather was clear. Status: A comparison of observed azimuths and elevations of the supposed object with the calculated position and relative motion of the planet Jupiter leave little doubt that the observed object was actually Jupiter. 3. Reported Sightings of a Strange Object in Florida This sighting was reported by a Boy Scoutmaster to have occurred at 2150 local time on 19 August 1952 near West Palm Beach, Florida. According to the story given, the source was driving along deserted road in his car, together with four Boy Scouts. Sighting a strange light, source stopped the car, cautioned the boys to wait, and entered the palmetto undergrowth alone. When he did not return in a few minutes, and witnessing some strange lights in the vicinity of the scoutmaster, the boys went for help, returning with a deputy sheriff. The scoutmaster appeared, badly firghtened, slightly burned on the forearms. His story was that he had seen a large curcular object about eight feet over his head which had released a "fire ball" which descended on him. He stated that he had thrown himself upon the ground and "blacked out." There were various other [unknown] to the story. His cap was burned slightly and samples of grass taken from the immediate vicinity of the "sighting" differed strangely in appearance from samples 75 yards away. Status: The background of the source indicates an unsavory personal reputation and criminal record, resulting in the belief that the report may have been an elaborate hoax. However, the unusual condition of the grass samples is currently unexplained. This fact, together with other aspects of the case, leave final determination in doubt at this time. ================================================================= END TAB A DOCUMENT -- ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: ParaNet(sm).Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) Subject: Tab A - Robertson Panel, (2) Date: 6 Jun 91 19:41:00 GMT ================================================================= ParaNet note: The following text is taken from an attachment of the Robertson Panel Tab A document. It was included in the FOIA release and contains a memorandum for record dated 16 May 1958. It should be considered in the same way as the previous document. ================================================================= 16 May 1958 MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD SUBJECT: Meeting with Air Force Personnel Concerning Scientific Advisory Panel Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, dated 17 January 1953 (Secret) 1. A meeting was convened this date eiwht representatives of the Air Force to discuss what steps should be taken concerning the subject report in order to take care of inquiries such as the letters written by Mr. Leon Davidson. Mr. Davidson has been most insistent upon getting the entire report released. The full report is classified "Secret." A declassified version is available, a copy of which was given to Mr. Davidson. The following personnel were at the meeting: Mr. Philip G. Strong DAD/C/SI, CIA Major Joseph E. Boland SAF LL-3 Major James F. Byrne AFCIN-XIA Major Lawrence J. Tacker SAFIS Dr. A. Francis Arcier ATIC Mr. George Cary Legislative Counsel, CIA Mr. W. E. Lexow OSI, CIA 3. Paragraph 3 of the report cites examples of actions that could be taken by an enemy with possibly dangerous consequences to national security. This is the principal reason that the entire reason the report cannot be declassified. This was agreed to in the meeting. In addition, it was pointed out by Mr. Strong that several of the panel members specifically requested that while they had no objection to their names being used in connection with this report, they did not want their names connected to the Central Intelligence Agency. So far it is believed that all connections between the panel members and CIA have been made by unofficial personnel. 4. In dealing specifically with Mr. Davidson it was agreed that Major Tacker would answer for the DCI at the same time that he was answering for the Air Forces. (Mr. Davidson sent a copy of his letter to Major Tacker to the DCI for a response.) 5. Mr. Strong pointed out that perhaps the best way to forestall any future inquiries along these lines was to put out a press release covering the subject of unidentified flying objects, utilizing the panel report as much as possible. Major Boland agreed that this was perhaps the best way to handle it, inasmuch as in his capacity of Legilsative Liaison, it would best satisfy congressional requirements. Major Tacker will draft an Air Force press release, clearing it through the various sections of the Air Force, and will then submit it to Mr. Cary for Agency review, Mr. Cary will consult with the Office of Security, Mr. Strong and the undersigned when he receives the draft press release. 6. The Air Force representatives believe that much of the trouble they have been having with Major Keyhoe along these same lines could be alleviated if the Major did not have such important personages as Vice Admiral R. H. Hillenkoetter, USN (ret.), former DCI, on the board of governors of his organization. They suggested that perhaps if the Admiral was shown the Secret panel report he would understand and take appropriate actions. Mr. Cary said that he would relate this suggestion to Mr. Houston (General Counsel). 7. Major Boland suggested that it might be advisable to contact the panel members to consider a rewording of th epanel report somewhat along the lines that Dr. Menzel suggested in his letter to all the members of the panel. Dr. Menzel has received the unclassified version from Mr. Leon Davidson. Mr. Strong feels that this may be inadvisable at the present time, inasmuch as the report has already been made available to thge public and any change may arouse suspicion. However, he will contact Dr. Roberston and disucss this. Signed W. E. Lexow Chief, Applied Science Division, SI Distribution: Orig - DAD/C/SI 2 - ASD/SI 1 - Mr. Chapin (Ass'n to the DCI) 1 - Mr. Cary (Leg. Counsel) 1 - SO/SI ([blanked out] Office of Security) OSI/ASD/WELexow: gl/682 ================================================================= END OF DOCUMENT -- ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: ParaNet(sm).Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) Subject: Tab A - Robertson Panel, (Conclusion) Date: 6 Jun 91 19:42:00 GMT <> ================================================================= ParaNet Note: The folowing document was released under the Freedom of Information Act. It was contained in the same package as the previous material. As before, we do not represent that the information contained is accurate. The documents lists various people who attended an Intelligence Advisory Committee meeting to deal with the UFO problem. According to information gleaned from the document, it appears that the meeting was number 90 in a series of meetings of this committee. This does not necessarily mean that the meetings were specifically regarding UFOs, however we are attempting to get information on this. It is further interesting to note the number of CIA personnel in attendence, indicating that information that has been passed along over the years that the UFO problem was highly regarded by the CIA. ================================================================= Security Information IAC-M-90 4 December 1952 INTELLIGENCE ADVISORY COMMITTEE Minutes of Meeting held in Director's Conference Room, Administration Building, Central Intelligence Agency on 4 December 1952. Acting Deputy Director (Intelligence) Central Intelligence Agency Mr. Robert Amory, Jr. MEMBERS PRESENT Mr. W. Park Armstrong, Jr., Special Assistant, Intelligence Department of State Brigadier General John M. Willems, acting for Assistant Chief of Staff, G-2, Department of the Army Rear Admiral Carl F. Espe, Director of Naval Intelligence, Department of the Navy Major General John A. Samford, Director of Intelligence, Headquarters, United States Air Force Dr. Walter F. Colby, Director of Intelligence, Atomic Energy Commission Brigadier General Edward H. Porter Deputy Director for Intelligence, The Joint Staff Mr. Meffert W. Kuhrtz, acting for Assistant to the Director, Federal Bureau of Investigation ALSO PRESENT Dr. Sherman Kent, Central Intelligence Agency Dr. H. Marshall Chadwell, Central Intelligence Agency Mr. Paul Borel, Central Intelligence Agency Mr. Ludwell L. Montague, Central Intelligence Agency Mr. Philip Strong, Central Intelligence Agency Mr. Joseph W. Smith, Central Intelligence Agency Mr. William C. Trueheart, Department of State Mr. Miron Burgin, Department of State Lieutenant Colonel T. C. Anderson, Department of the Army Lieutenant Colonel Edgar H. Thomson, Jr., Department of the Army Colonel John J. Morrow, United States Air Force Colonel Jack E. Thomas, United States Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Thomas J. Grant, United States Air Force Colonel S. M. Lansing, The Joint Staff Captain John A. Holbrook, USN, The Joint Staff Richard D. Drain, Acting Secretary Declassified per sec 3(A), E011652 Approved for release 207789 Date 6 Ocotber 1978 Approval of Mintues 1. Action: The minutes of the last meeting, 1 December 1952 (IAC-M-89), were approved. Conditions and Trends in Latin America Affecting U.S. Security (NIE-70) 2. Action: Approved with minor modifications. Unidentified Flying Objects 3. Action: The Director of Central Intelligence will: a. Enlist the services of selected scientists to review and appraise the available evidence in the light of pertinent scientific theories. b. Draft and circulate to the IAC a proposed NSCID, which would sifnigy IAC concern in the subject and authorize coordination with appropriate non-IAC departments and agencies. 4. Discussion: The acting Chariman, Mr. Amory, presented to the committee the DCI's request that this subject be informally discussed. Dr. Chadwell briefly reviewed the evidence and peripheral considerations, and noted that most of the available evidence is processed by ATIC. General Samford offerred his full cooperation. It was recognized that he problem is best approached if directly related to specific problems of intelligence and defense. It was thought desirable that the action noted above under "a" be undertaken immediately, with consideration of a proposed NSCID to depend in some measure on the results achieved by the scientist's studies. ================================================================= END OF DOCUMENT TABAROB.UFO -- ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: ParaNet(sm).Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Re: Paranet Newsletter 414 Date: 7 Jun 91 03:32:00 GMT > From: Paul Carr > > I am employed at GE Astro Space in East Windsor, New Jersey. We > are the prime contractor for the Mars Observer spacecraft. I think > I can report with a high degree of confidence that it is here, and > is not ready to fly. It is scheduled for a Titan III launch. This > is a big vehicle, and is very difficult to covertly launch. Also, > The only Titan III pad at the Cape is down for repairs. The only > other U.S. vehicle that could launch it is STS (well, Titan IV also). > It might just be launchable on an Ariane 44L, but those launches are > all very public. A Soviet Proton or Energia could conceivably get > MO to Mars, but that strains credibility even further - and I think > that by now credibility is past the breaking point. Thank you for that information, Paul. This is why ParaNet stays ahead of the game! BTW, what do you know about the failure of the Phobos mission? Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Deane.Ward@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Deane Ward) Subject: Reply Date: 7 Jun 91 04:43:32 GMT Thanks Mike for your prompt answer. I am waiting for your info. Could the other person's name be Lloyd Berkner? I am still looking through Hyneks' books, but, up to now I'm still walking through the desert. Thanks again Deane Ward -- Deane Ward - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Deane.Ward@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don.Allen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Allen) Subject: "Martian" Chronicles Date: 3 Jun 91 04:45:00 GMT Mike, Regarding your latest series on Richard Hoagland; I have found them enjoyable reading, but certainly wouldn't call them the absolute last word of "Truth" , nor would I go out on a limb on categorically stating that the "Face" on Mars is no more or less than what we all have been speculating for the last few years. As you may have have noticed, I have been circulating a few UFO related files around on UseNet and thought to provoke some insightful discussions by their subject matter. I just got finished cross-posting a few articles off this echo (intact with headers, as mentioned in your "sharetext") and some of these have been on Hoagland's Mars theme.. You might be interested in this response I saw tonight in alt.alien.visitors: -------------------------------------------------------------- >Article 434 of alt.alien.visitors: >From: carl@iago.caltech.edu (Lydick, Carl) >Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic, >misc.headlines ,sci.space,misc.misc >Subject: Re: INFO: Clandestine Mars Observer Launch?? >Keywords: Follow-ups to alt.alien.visitors >Message-ID: <1991Jun1.002443.2474@nntp-server.caltech.edu> >Date: 1 Jun 91 00:22:23 GMT >References: <1991May31.022927.35@bilver.uucp> >Sender: news@nntp-server.caltech.edu >Reply-To: carl@iago.caltech.edu >Organization: California Institute of Technology >Lines: 18 >News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4x >In article <1991May31.022927.35@bilver.uucp>, dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) >writes... >> ParaNet has received information that Richard C. Hoagland, >>the noted author of The Monuments of Mars - a book detailing a >>possible surface anomaly on the planet, that NASA has covertly >>launched the Mars observer spacecraft to speed to Mars to find >>out what is going on up there. Below is a reprint of that >>article. Our members are encouraged to provide any information >>that would substantiate or disavow these claims. > >Thanks, Don. The folks upstairs working on the Mars Observer Camera got a >pretty good laugh out of this. Also, isn't this the SAME Richard C. >Hoagland >who, as of about two years ago, was running around ranting that NASA was >trying >to SUPPRESS investigation of the Cydonia formations? Hey, if you believe in >enough contradictory conspiracies, eventually you may even believe in one >that >EXISTS! >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Carl J Lydick HEPnet/NSI: SOL1::CARL Internet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- This got me to pondering that if the folks that actually WORK on this project are ridiculing Hoagland, then how much more proof of evidence (on Hoagland's end) would be required to settle the matter, once and for all, before the reports come in from the Mars Observer mission? If people at NASA appear to be "stonewalling" Hoagland, ridiculing his claims, and seem to blow off his theories...he is in for a very rough uphill climb. IF he is proven right after a time, then what? Do you suppose that NASA will "suddenly" change their position? >From what I've read, Hoagland isn't exactly a "nut" nor does he appear mentally deranged, judging from a small list of credentials I've seen on him. He may come off as a "Don Quixote", but my suspicion is there is "something" that we (the public) aren't being leveled with by NASA. I just wish I could put my finger on it more. Just thought you might be interested in this small amount of feedback. Regards, Don -- Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Allen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request DOMAIN infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to: DOMAIN ftp.uiowa.edu (directory /archives/paranet) ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************