Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 421 Monday, June 10th 1991 Today's Topics: Re: HARD COPY BOOBOO! feeling? FLIGHT 19 *NOT* FOUND Re: Valle Interview PETIT.REB Re: HARD COPY BOOBOO! Re: Miscellaneous Re--Robertson Panel Re: the wrong planes Re: the wrong planes file for paranet news letter Men In Black Countermeasures Re: Re--Robertson Panel Re: Valle Interview ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: Re: HARD COPY BOOBOO! Date: 3 Jun 91 07:12:02 GMT > You said it! Those photos Marina held up were less than > exciting, too. BTW, the photo of the thing that looked sort of like a giant octopus in the sky turned out to have been a rocket booster explosion at a previously-secret launch complex. jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: feeling? Date: 4 Jun 91 05:17:00 GMT Interesting. I just came across a major solar flare alert dated June 1, in which strong flaring is expected until maybe June 10 or so. Pondering the coincidences. My local guy is just about sure of some strange incident by June 15. Coincidences bother me. ;-) jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: FLIGHT 19 *NOT* FOUND Date: 5 Jun 91 17:06:01 GMT >From the Orlando Sentinel, June 5, by Maya Bell: The mythic mystery of the Bermuda Triangle remained intact Tuesday with the revelation that the Navy Avengers found off the coast of Fort Lauderdale are not the Lost Squadron that vanished 45 years ago. Instead of Flight 19 - the five torpedo bombers that disappeared while on a routine training mission from Fort Lauderdale - salvors found the Phantom Five. "For those who really want to weave a mystery, instead of one group of fighter Avengers downed in the Bermuda Triangle, we've now given you two," said Graham Hawkes, whose high-tech vessel, Deep See, stumbled upon the cluster of five Avengers last month while exploring for sunken galleons 10 miles offshore. The big question is how the Avengers, dubbed Phantom Five by the Deep See creew, wound up on the ocean floor within 1 1/2 miles of each other. While at least 139 World War II-era Avengers were lost in the waters of Florida's coast, there is no record of five Avengers other than Flight 19 sinking together. One of the greatest puzzles in aviation history, Flight 19's disappearance helped spawn the legend of the Bermuda Triangle and its mysterious forces. About 50 planes and ships have disappeared without a trace in the patch of ocean between Florida, Bermuda and Puerto Rico. Hawkes contends - and evidence reviewed by an independent wreckage research firm supports - that the group didn't sink together but independently over a period of several years. The explanation for their close proximity? Planes concentrated over the site because it was the target of low-level bombing practice. Historian Roy Grossnick, who heads the aviation history branch of the Naval Historical Center in Washington, said the Navy needed more information to confirm theories about the Phantom Five. The grouping, number and type of the Phantom Five aircraft fueled initial speculation last month that the Deep See crew found the remains of Flight 19, which vanished with 14 crewmen on Dec. 5, 1945. One of the sunken planes bore the number 28 on its wing, the same number on the plane Flight 19 lead pilot Charles "C.C." Taylor was flying. Two of the planes bore the letters FT, the same letters that Flight 19 used to designate their base as teh Fort Lauderdale Naval Air Station. But closer inspection revealed that the aircraft have different numbers and are older Avenger models than those in Flight 19. The plane bearing the 28 may even have a third digit, Hawkes said. The news was bittersweet for the relatives of Flight 19's crewmen,, only one of whom was married. *irrelevvent stuff deleted* While nobody knows where the crew of Flight 19 rests, Hawkes said the men aboard the Phantom Five met a better fate. no human remains were evident aboard the planes and, with the exception of the one bearing the 28, the aircraft are intact and showed damage consistent with intentional ditching. Their canopies were open, indicating the crews exited on the surface, Hawkes said. The Deep See crewmen are continuing their search for sunken treasure. And if they stumble on another five planes, they threaten to keep quiet about it. "If we find five more it will just confirm out theory there's a lot of aliens playing with us," Hawkes said. -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: Valle Interview Date: 6 Jun 91 07:37:00 GMT -> I must admit that I too don't agree with everything ->that Sagan ->and Asimov say, but do you seriously believe that these two ->respected men glean their data from the tabloids? In the case of Sagan, no. In the case of Asimov....never was I so disappointed as when I learned that the opinion of one of my childhood heroes on the subject of UFOs was borne of nothing but gross ignorance. Asimov probably does not READ the tabloids, but what I think Dr. Vallee may have been correctly implying was that he sees the headlines, shakes his head, and laments the sorry state of True Believerism rampant in the world. In that True Believerism he has probably lumped all UFOlogy without so much as a cursory study. I once heard Asimov on Larry King's radio show. When asked about UFOs, he said they were ridiculous. "But so many people see them" said King. "Of course they see things in the sky they can't identify. *I'VE SEEN THINGS IN THE SKY I COULDN'T IDENTIFY*. That doesn't make me believe in little green men." [emphasis mine]. Now here we have a man that doesn't believe, even after seeing. THAT'S skepticism. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: PETIT.REB Date: 7 Jun 91 01:32:00 GMT Linda: The other night at dinner your husband and I had a conversation about the present technological feasibility of defeating sonic booms. He assured me that there is no way under present technology that it can be done, and that he frankly can't foresee it. The problem is that its not the object that creates the boom, per se, but the rapid separation of the air particles as the object approaches. I'd like you to do me a favor and try to download a file for him called PETIT.REB. It's J. Roger Black's rebuttal to Jean-Pierre Petit, a French scientist, who claims that work is proceeding right now on defeating sonic booms. I'd like to know what your husband's thoughts on it are. The file can be had by going to the ile transfer section off the Top menu, proceed to section A-3, and do a filename or keyword search on the word PETIT. Up-arrow to the filename then press the space bar, then press N, D, select a protocol and hit your PgDn. Let me know what he thinks. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: HARD COPY BOOBOO! Date: 8 Jun 91 05:12:00 GMT Yo John, You said: That photo Marina held up was an explosion of a secret rocket/missle. I'm assuming it was a Soviet rocket explosion? Boy, that sure breaks down her credibility, don't you thing?? Yuk! How unprofessional! Gives me a bad taste in my mouth. :-( Linda -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: Miscellaneous Date: 8 Jun 91 05:25:00 GMT Mike, I don;t think I going to get around to reading that Dr. Brandenburg article on the Rainbow Declaration, so I will just snail/mail it to you. Meanwhile, I'll TRY to read it.... Linda -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Deane.Ward@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Deane Ward) Subject: Re--Robertson Panel Date: 8 Jun 91 00:51:54 GMT Hi Jim, Saw your post but haven't had time to read it yet. I have gone through some of my books and came up with another name as a possible member of the panel. Lloyd Berkner. He went to the Anarctic with Adm. Byrd in 1937. There is another Operation, I think that is involved with the Panel. Do you remember the Great Northeast Blackout** on Nov.9, 1965.*??? It has been rumored that the saucer flap around that time was one of the reasons that caused Project Blue Book (along with the Condon Report) to be terminated as promptly as it was. Thanks for your assistance, you triggered my memory and made it much easier for me to track a few more references. Why don"t you do the Research and load me uup with books and/or reports to read. If there is any way I could take any of the pressure off you, I will be most willing to help. Thanks loads, Deane Ward -- Deane Ward - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Deane.Ward@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David.Gurzynski@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Gurzynski) Subject: Re: the wrong planes Date: 7 Jun 91 05:01:00 GMT If it wasn't flight 19, then who was it? I had heard that they even had identified some of the markings on the planes and serial numbers, by robot as being from that group. -- David Gurzynski - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: David.Gurzynski@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Shaffer@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Shaffer) Subject: Re: the wrong planes Date: 7 Jun 91 07:23:00 GMT Who was it? I wish I knew. The article didn't say. It was a very small article compared to the very large articles that announced the find. Apparently a few numbers matched but when they got down there for a closer look the rest of the numbers didn't. Anybody have a more informative copy of the story? -- Jim Shaffer - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Shaffer@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ncar!cwns2.INS.CWRU.Edu!aa245 Subject: file for paranet news letter Men In Black Countermeasures Date: 9 Jun 91 03:36:21 GMT From: aa245@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Parish) Counter Measures for Men In Black Encounters After reading various reports of people who have had encounters with Men In Black after a UFO related siting or happening, It has brought to my attention that common, average people without any previous military tactical or planing training are defenseless to the tactics that have been reported to frighten and intimidate these people to be silent or change their minds about reporting or turning over any information or evidence to UFO Investigators. I have decided that this would be a good application of some of my U.S. Army (Over Training) that I have acquired in my younger days. This should not deal with weapons or combat, but more of a counter physiological warfare approach. Although weapons training and hand to hand combat training greatly enhance confidence of an individuals ability to cope with an abnormal encounter situation. It gives you a power platform to relate from. The so called (EDGE). But knowledge and reasoning is a greater power and can and should be used first to avoid any physical conflict. The key to winning any conflict either mental or physical is to turn the enemies forces exerted against himself or to use it for your advantage and to exploit his weaknesses. Remembering and working from some of the Men In Black document files I have read, I will try to recreate some reported situations of Men In Black encounters and give the reader my responses to repel, stop or eliminate the Men In Black threat. First, we will start off with the hypothesis that you have witnessed an unusual aerial craft and you have reported what you have seen to the press or radio or television reporters. That your story was printed or told on radio or television by reporters. And then a big new black car arrives at your address with two men dressed in black show up on your front porch or doorstep. They knock, ring your door bell and you go to the door and there they are! The Men In Black! You spot the big knew black car! 1. They announce that they are from such and such and flash I.D. at you and quickly put it away. a. State, you to wish to verify their credentials. Tell them that you want each of them one at a time to remove the Badge or I.D. Card plus a drivers licence and one major credit card for your examination for proof of identification. b. State, that otherwise you will refuse to speak to them and report them to the police for trying to impersonate an official. 2. This is a common security procedure. Ever try to cash a check or use a credit card at store? a. They are trying to cash a check with you using a badge or I.D. Card. The payment is to gain information. b. The payment also may include intimating you to keep silent by the power of their office. c. Know who you are dealing with. 3. You want to provoke a response from them to judge their reaction. Remember that you are judging them in the same manner as store clerk would to decide to cash a strangers check or approve credit card use. a. If they are truly who they say they are, they wont have a problem with complying. b. If they refuse, State that, 'this conversation has ended'. This is a standard verbal stiff arm. Ask them to leave and state that you are calling the police if they don't and that they can explain who they are to the police. c. Retreat and lock your door. Call the police anyway, whether or not you see them leaving and file a report of the incident. 4. If they comply with presenting identification, remember anything can be replicated. Apparent age the item in relation to it's printed date of issue, use and ware are harder to fake. a. Check for the same names used on all items from the same individual. b. Check for use of a middle initial or the lack of it. 4.b.1. If the printed name has a middle initial then the signed name in hand writing should have it. 4.b.2 If the printed name doesn't then the signed name should not have it. c. Check for the individuals date of birth compared to his physical appearance. d. Ask each for his/her social security card number. Use the palm of your hand it write it down on if you don't have paper but have a ball point pin or ask them to wait OUTSIDE while you get it. Never invite them in while you locate paper and pin! 4.d.1. All current police computers can I.D. Make anyone by running a social security number check. 4.d.2. Military types will know and remember their military serial number but have a problem with recalling their social security number. 4.d.3. A social security number is this BEST thing to use to run a computer tracer on an individual to see if him/her is who they say they are, date of birth, where the live and who they work for, valid drivers license and so forth. 4.c.4. As per the above, a social security number is better to have in hand from a suspect individual than his/her badge or I.D. card number! 5. While looking down at the indentification look at their shoes. a. Most military types were only certain types of dress shoes. b. Most federal employee types were only certain styles and types of shoes. c. Undercover Police will copy each other and wind up waring the same styles of shoes. Foot care is just as important to policemen as it is to the military or postmen. d. Civilians, non military, non federal and non police will were anything that strikes their fancy. This means with no thought as to even the proper style for the clothes they are waring or (uniformity, ease of care, durability or comfort) when walking long distances or standing around for hours. e. Check to see if the shoes fit the clothes, the right shoe on the right foot and matched socks. Someone not familiar with earth dress may have got it wrong. 6. Don't let them lead you into any conversation and let them do all of talking. Do not elaborate on anything. a. Uh-haw, Yes, to respond true answers b. Un-haw, No, to respond to false or no answers c. Ever try to hold a conversation or get any useful information with someone that only says uh-haw and un- hah? 7. Do not invite them into you home, house or apartment! Do all the talking at the door or porch and in the open were others may see you, them or both you and them. a. You don't really know who they are and they are no friends of yours. b. You don't know what action they may take when they are sure that no one else could witness it. 8. Offer them a cigarette if you smoke. If they accept a cigarette, offer them your lighter. Hand it to them before they can get their own. a. Try to wipe the sides of the front and back clean on the inside of your pocket and remove it from your pocket holding the side or edges only. b. When they return the lighter to you let them drop it in your palm and then let it slide it back into your pocket. c. You now have a sample of their finger prints if they had any so use a soft cloth to remove it later and grasp it with at the top and bottom only and place it in a plastic zip lock bag. 9. If they don't accept a cigarette, light up one yourself. a. If you smoke this will calm your nerves and put you at ease and possibly offend them at the subliminal level. This makes none smokers uneasy when placed in close proximity to a smoker. This gives you another small piece of the advantage. b. If the air currents are right for it you can slyly blow a little smoke their way to judge their reaction to the cigarette gases in the smoke. c. You can observe their reaction to consumed cigarette gases. 10. If they don't accept a cigarette, offer them a beer or any liquid refreshment you have on hand. Even a glass of water. But ask them to wait while you go and get it! The object is to get a finger print sample if possible, not to let them into your home! 11. If they really bug you and you get a strange feeling of uneasiness buy their presents at your home, standing their looking weird, trust your feelings! Excuse yourself for a moment, get your car keys and walk out right past them to your car, get in, lock the doors and drive straight to the nearest police station and park in the open right in front of it and ask the first policeman you see to help you to file a report of following and harassment and file a complaint report! Written by: Robert Parish aa245 Free Net -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: Re--Robertson Panel Date: 8 Jun 91 22:45:00 GMT In a message to Jim Speiser <06-07-91 17:51> Deane Ward wrote: ->as a possible member of the panel. Lloyd Berkner. He went ->to the Anarctic with Adm. Byrd in 1937. There is another ->Operation, I think that is involved with the Panel. Do you Interesting...Berkner was of course allegedly on the MJ-12 panel. Why do you think he may have been on the Robertson panel? ->remember the Great Northeast Blackout** on Nov.9, 1965.*??? ->It has been rumored that the saucer flap around that time ->was one of the reasons that caused Project Blue Book (along ->with the Condon Report) to be terminated as promptly as it The Condon committee was not even formed until 1966, after a Congressional hearing. Don Keyhoe has some interesting things to say about the Blackout in Aliens from Space...if his information is correct, it would appear that the Blackout might be credibly linked to the saucer flap. ->references. Why don"t you do the Research and load me uup ->with books and/or reports to read. If there is any way I ->could take any of the pressure off you, I will be most ->willing to help. OK, can you loan me $15,000?? :-) Seriously, just keep doing what you're doing, and don't be afraid to post your thoughts and correlations....some may be shot down, but some may stick! Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff) Subject: Re: Valle Interview Date: 9 Jun 91 13:07:00 GMT Jim, Conceivably Dr. Valle was using a bit of hyperbole in his reference to Sagan, Asimov, and the National Enquirer, but I still feel we should all learn to be a tad more tolerant of the skeptical mind. Asimov has written some science primers for young people which are quite well done, so even he is being of service to society. As far as the Larry King interview you referred to, I would have to ask what SPECIFICALLY Asimov has seen in the sky that he couldn't identify. From your excerpt taken out of context, it is difficult to discern if it was UFOs, cloud formations, astronomical bodies, weather phenomena, etc. ( Of course I realize that the latter could all be mistaken for true UFOs. ) Additionally, when Larry asked Asimov about UFOs, and he responded that "they were ridiculous", what exactly did he mean? UFO's themselves are ridiculous, the possibility of their being a reality is ridiculous, or the sightings and/or the individuals reporting them are ridiculous. Clarification is required. I must say that I even find myself becoming increasingly skeptical, not because I don't believe in the reality of UFOs ( I do !! ), but because it seems that virtually every "breakthrough" case that's touted as "proof positive" seems to fall apart with time. That's even occurring as we speak with a personal investigation of my own with a possible abductee on the west coast. (By the way, I am following with interest your postings on Lydia, and look forward to an update soon.) In any event, I'm certain you'll agree that this whole business (and it is BIG BUSINESS), gets very frustrating at times. However, with perseverance, dedication, and sincerity, we shall succeed in making some sense of this quandary someday. Sheldon -- Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request DOMAIN infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to: DOMAIN ftp.uiowa.edu (directory /archives/paranet) ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************