Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 422 Monday, June 10th 1991 Today's Topics: Statistical Sampling Hard Copy Booboo! ParaNet GetTogether Hypnosis and Social Gathering Re: UFONS Re: FLIGHT 19 FLIGHT 19 *NOT* FOUND DR. NATHAN INTERVIEW Miscellaneous Re: Miscellaneous Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee So. cal uof bbs UFO Board Re: HYPNOSIS FOR TRUTH Re: FLIGHT 19 DR. NATHAN INTERVIEW (none) (none) Re: Valle Interview Re: ParaNet GetTogether Re: Hard Copy Booboo! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Statistical Sampling Date: 9 Jun 91 17:44:00 GMT Would anyone on the network have experience with statistical sampling? I am interested in forming a questionaire which could poll the scientific community about this subject to get an "intelligence quotient" on their knowledge of the scientific merits that this phenomenon holds. Send me responses here or e-mail me at: FidoNet: 1:104/422 or Internet: mcorbin@scicom.alphacdc.com Thanks, Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker) Subject: Hard Copy Booboo! Date: 7 Jun 91 05:20:00 GMT John Hicks said: > > Where was the real photograph? > > Yep, where's the beef? In reference to the Hard Copy segment, I, having set this segment up can answer your questions. First, the photo you mention, ( or two or three photos of the object in question ) were NEVER released by the Soviets. What they did release was the photo of the ellipse, which by the way anyone can see in Sitchins newest offering "Genesis Revisited". As to Mr. Wernikoff's statement earlier, which I could not respond to since my system was down, the segment showing a shadow crossing the moonlet Phobos was an artists depiction. The photo of Phobos was real, having gotten it from JPL, the shadow was inserted. HOWEVER, considering how most media has treated this subject, this seems to me IMHO to be a rather nit picky type of remark. No one else to my knowledge has addressed this subject. So Guys, lighten up why don't ya?? GRIN Don -- Don Ecker - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David.Villa@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Villa) Subject: ParaNet GetTogether Date: 6 Jun 91 07:30:00 GMT >That's an idea I've had for years, but have been afraid to suggest, for >fear everyone will expect me to make the arrangements. I've helped put >together one UFO conference, and I aint-a-gonna do it again. But its a >great idea, and I will make every effort to attend one! What UFO conference did you help put together? Hmm, well we would need a place where the people coming from out of state could stay the night or weekend since a one day thing would be out of the question. We would need to see some genuine interest because one or two people making an effort to go only to show up and have one other person there is a real downer. We could do a camping thing for a few nights, under the stars. Maybe bring portable telescopes and hiking gear. That would be fun. How about at the sand dunes in northern CA? Those are great fun when it is not windy. There are also some very nice campgrounds along the beach. Arizona is a good state with nice campgrounds and wideopen views of the sky and land. How many of you are outdoorsy people? -- David Villa - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: David.Villa@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David.Villa@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Villa) Subject: Hypnosis and Social Gathering Date: 6 Jun 91 07:37:00 GMT >Dear David, > Great to hear from you again! I tried calling your board yesterday but >was unable to get thru - just wanted to see if you were there and able to >chat. I even dialed the 2nd time with an access code (AT&T I think it was) >and still an operator voice told me to hang up and dial again. Any ideas >what I should do? Hmm, that baffles me. Sorry to hear you had a problem. I have no idea what it could be. We talked recently but did you have this problem before or after you got through the other day? It could have been a temporary phone company error. > I think Jim Speiser would be the perfect person to organize a Western >States pow-wow. After all, he's had the experience...... That is a great >idea, however, and we should have it someplace cool, and that isn't Phoenix >right at the moment! Well, Jim has allready stated his position on this, and I understand where he is coming from very well. I am not much of an organizer and since I do not have a car, it is hard for me to travel much of anywhere without a carpool. I am, however, very willing to put an effort into trying to organize somthing to meet you interesting people. I guess I'll start with gathering a general consensus as to what type of gathering it you are comfortable with. One day picnic in the country? Weekend camping trip? > I met Kathie Davis last summer at the MUFON conference in Pensacola, >Fla. One of the organizers held a short social for Kathie >and invited "Ladies Only." And I was lucky enough to be invited. Wow, that sure was a grand opportunity you were given. Was she comfortable talking about her experiences or was she pretty burnt out on it? Did Budd Hopkin speak at that conference? > It would be very beneficial for all of us if you talked to your mother >about hypnosis, then posted your findings on the board for all of us. >There is so much to learn. (Why wouldn't your friend want to know more >about the light that spoke to him???) > >Best regards, > . > Linda Do you have any questions you would like me to relay to my mother? I would be more then happy to act as a go-between for any questions you may have. I find my mother an amazing woman. It is not often I see her 'work side' but when I get those occaisional peaks I find myself very proud of the work she does and abilities she possesses. She says that Hypnosis is a very inexact science which most people who utilize it do not understand completely (herself included). I have been hypnotized once, long ago when I was about to have oral surgery. The hypnotic suggestions I received were to keep the bleeding to a minimum and reduce any complications which may spring up. The doctor himself stated afterwards that he was supprised how little bleeding there had been and how well the surgery went. Judy (my mother) had a female patient who had a problem with a fertilized egg which blocked her fillopean tube and, as the doctors stated, "irrepairably damaged her reproductive system as to depriving her of the abilty to become pregnant". My mother and this woman began exploritory hynosis to find out, through the patient's subconscience what the problem was. My mother asked her subconscience to do what it could to heal the damage the body had suffered. 3 years later, my mother received a phone call from this woman who said that she was now 9 months pregnant and she felt that the hypnotic work they had done together had given her her child. My mom tells me that she talks to the subconscience of the patient as a very knowledgable being. She sometimes asks the patient's subconscience for the best way to treat the patient. As for my friend, he is not into UFOs at all and does not speculate what the light was or if it was a truly a dream. It just came to mind as I was telling him about the abductee experiences and 'dreams' in a conversation, which in itself hints that they are somehow connected. I would very much like to know what my friend has seen or may have hidden away in his subconscience but I know he would not subject himself to hypnosis over it. He feels it is not a worthwhile experience to follow which is too bad. This must be a common attitude for abductees who never tell their story to anyone, "They would think I was crazy if I told them about this. I am sure it is nothing. Probably just a dream anyway. A waste of time and money to look into." -- David Villa - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: David.Villa@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David.Villa@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Villa) Subject: Re: UFONS Date: 6 Jun 91 08:04:00 GMT Thanks, Linda, I'll send Lucius a letter and get some information. -- David Villa - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: David.Villa@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro) Subject: Re: FLIGHT 19 Date: 3 Jun 91 17:46:28 GMT The first photo has already been taken, and anyone familiar with photography knows what a kiss mark looks like, but I was flying back from Reno a couple of years ago, and just by chance a picture of the clouds has a nice one on it. It would never make it past first base. The second one needs some effort to make the UFO image, I'll say no more, but I already posted how on here a couple of months ago. Last one I sighted as an optical illusion last week. I was driving along and saw this glowing thing sort of moving back and forth (mostly just floating?) and it looked like balls of flames were dropping off of it. Really strange! So I stopped the car and grabbed for one of the cameras then drove towards it. Before I could take a picture, I figured out what it was. So I put the car in reverse and backed up to the original sighting point, and wow there it was again, bobbing back and forth, dropping illuminated balls of light. Now that I have pretty well explained them, if I see a real UFO it won't look like any of these, or be as easy to explain, so hopefully I can retain some credibility. OR on the other hand it will automatically be shot down as a hoax without any problem. -- Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose) Subject: FLIGHT 19 *NOT* FOUND Date: 6 Jun 91 21:50:38 GMT In a message to all <05 Jun 91 10:06> John Hicks wrote: JH> The mythic mystery of the Bermuda Triangle remained intact JH> Tuesday with the revelation that the Navy Avengers found off the JH> coast of Fort Lauderdale are not the Lost JH> Squadron that vanished 45 years ago. Steven Speilberg thanks you. You saved his movie. ;-) -- Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: DR. NATHAN INTERVIEW Date: 7 Jun 91 16:18:00 GMT > conclusion: He has no definitive proof of a hoax, but the data are > consistent with images from double exposures. Sounds pretty reasonable. Some would require masking and double-printing rather than double-exposure in the camera, but all could be doubles of some kind. There's noting in them that precludes them being doubles. > Dr. Nathan also explained that he has asked both Walters and > Maccabee for more original negatives to analyze, but he has > received only duplicates. I hope he means original Polaroid prints, not negs. > He has recently received some new negatives from Tommy Smith's > father, but does not have any analyses completed on these as yet. Note that the Smith photos were shot on 35mm neg film. Thanks for your efforts. jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: Miscellaneous Date: 7 Jun 91 16:20:01 GMT > Yes, indeed. BTW, what do you know about the 'Rainbow > Declaration?' I understand that Brandenburg did this work and > would like to hear a little more about it. I think it's in last year's MUFON Symposium proceedings. I'll have a look and let you know. jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: Re: Miscellaneous Date: 7 Jun 91 16:23:02 GMT > does anyone know if the grasses continue to grow sideways, or do > they eventually go back to growing straight up opposite the pull > of gravity? I haven't seen any mention of that. Good question. jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee Date: 7 Jun 91 16:29:03 GMT > why does he not provide Dr. Nathan with the negatives he has requested? That's an easy answer. They're not Bruce's to provide. Ed himself will not release the originals. jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don.Orchard@p1.f502.n202.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Orchard) Subject: So. cal uof bbs Date: 7 Jun 91 07:24:03 GMT In a message to All <28 May 91 15:38> Mark Pope wrote: MP> Does anybody know of a UFO info BBS that is in Southern California? MP> Any info would be appreciated...... Hi Mark, Well this is quite late and I'm sure you have already found a good board to find UFO information. But just incase you haven't my Board is located in San Diego if you're looking that far south. The number is (619)447-3086, for now anyway. It'll be changing on the 21st or 22nd of June. Take care and I'll be watchiing for you.. See Ya!! Don -- Don Orchard - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Orchard@p1.f502.n202.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan.Sjolseth@f21.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Dan Sjolseth) Subject: UFO Board Date: 8 Jun 91 05:00:46 GMT Mark, My system is totally releated to UFO. I carry ParaNet,Mufon,Crystal Link, idoNet,PODS,GateWay..... Call anytime and drop me anot and I will validate. Regards, Dan Sjolseth 1-805-583-UFOS Stargate Systems BBS -- Dan Sjolseth - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Dan.Sjolseth@f21.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro) Subject: Re: HYPNOSIS FOR TRUTH Date: 7 Jun 91 15:56:40 GMT Welcome, I saw all your test messages and knew you would soon be fully connected. For you or anyone interested in how a person questioning, or interviewing someone awake can effect the answers try looking up Rosenthal's experiments on how experimenter's effect studys results, without conciously trying to do so. Under hypnosis the subtle inferences might also lead people towards desired responses. I'd be more specific but last time I read this study was in 1981 and it just seemed to fit the discussion. It should be under Psychology, and may have been 1971 when I read it during an experimental psyc. course. It's been a long long time. -- Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: Re: FLIGHT 19 Date: 9 Jun 91 07:27:01 GMT > Now that I have pretty well explained them, if I see a real UFO > it won't look like any of these, or be as easy to explain, Reminds me of the time a few months ago when I was out being walked by the dog one night and I noticed a triangular pattern of lights just hovering, apparently above the cloud deck. I watched for a quite a while and determined that the lights weren't moving, then suddenly they vanished. Really strange. I couldn't figure out what I'd seen. A few weeks later, I was driving past the Disney area south of town and I saw several spotlights being swiveled around. As I watched, they were aimed upward in a fairly circular pattern, then went off. Mystery solved. The night I'd first seen the lights, the cloud cover had just happened to be right. jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose) Subject: DR. NATHAN INTERVIEW Date: 7 Jun 91 17:25:06 GMT In a message to All <01 Jun 91 06:11> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote: SW> Robert Nathan at JPL in regards to the continuing saga of the Gulf SW> Breeze photos. Nathan has analyzed several original negatives, SW> utilizing microscopy, computer digitization and image enhancement, SW> along with multiple density printing to arrive at the following SW> conclusion: He has no definitive proof of a hoax, but the data are SW> consistent with images from double exposures. Nathan does not feel SW> that the GB images are from real UFO's. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! -- Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose) Subject: (none) Date: 7 Jun 91 17:35:48 GMT In a message to All <02 Jun 91 17:50> ncar!ecn.purdue.edu!lush@ wrote: nc> A couple newsletters ago, I mentioned seeing an article regarding nc> the picture of Bush and an alien going for a stroll at Camp David. nc> I did not mention 'Grey' aliens, nor did the article. Why does nc> everyone assume immediately that it was a 'Grey'? What else would you wish to call the man in the body-suit? In addition... how do you know they were REALLY at 'Camp David'? heh heh. We just use the term "grey" for convenience. After all, it is not considered a scientific label...now is it? I prefer it to 'alien being' or some such nomer. Since *I* believe it is no such thing in this particular case...I am marveling more at the digitized 'matting' technique used to produce the realistic-looking composit image (photograph) on the front page. Guess those creative editors really do find new uses for their Apple Mac IIs. ;-) -- Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose) Subject: (none) Date: 7 Jun 91 17:49:31 GMT DV> the article seemed to be obvious fakes to me. The poses of the DV> 'being' and president in the picture were unreal. I thought I DV> could see what looked to me like 'superimposure' marks on the DV> President's head over the rest of the body. Haha! David...working at a televideo production center, I can tell you how EASY it is to have YOUR still or video image walking arm-in-arm with the Pope. Apparently, this not-so-new technology has been featured in those rag-mags for some time now...but is improving to the point where honest people (sic) are having trouble telling the fantasies from the fakes. So much for one of the down-sides of our First Amendment rights. I enjoyed the outlandish attempt some months back to show, "SPACE JUNK FOUND ON THE MOON!!" in which we were treated to a 'lunar surface' with strewned debris of toilet seats and baby strollers. People started to think we were actually launching rockets with our garabage and crashing it into the moon! Featured in the same rag that came up with "BOEING 707 UNCOVERED FROM LUNAR SURFACE!" in a prior issue. I said, "So THAT's where I lost it!!" :-) -- Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Steve.Rose@p1.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul.Mcavoy@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Paul Mcavoy) Subject: Re: Valle Interview Date: 7 Jun 91 00:31:00 GMT I was thinking that it could be that Asmiov, and Sagan realize that they have many people who follow them and belive what they have to say as being a possible reality. Therefore, they might not be so inclined to say anything For the support of anything that people might claim for Aliens, and UFO's being real, but what I would not understand is if they claimed to be vehemently against all possibilities that they might be real. IF that were true, then why would they research data so thouroughly for their books, when they use Aliens and other life forms (If they do at all) in them when they don't belive in any possibility of their existance...? -- Paul Mcavoy - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Paul.Mcavoy@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul.Mcavoy@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Paul Mcavoy) Subject: Re: ParaNet GetTogether Date: 7 Jun 91 00:35:00 GMT I'm an outdorsy person, I love to camp, I do it every year in northern california. -- Paul Mcavoy - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Paul.Mcavoy@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker) Subject: Re: Hard Copy Booboo! Date: 9 Jun 91 23:59:00 GMT Linda Bird said: > Yo John, > You said: That photo Marina held up was an explosion of a secret > rocket/missle. > > I'm assuming it was a Soviet rocket explosion? Boy, that sure > breaks down her credibility, don't you thing?? > > Yuk! How unprofessional! > > Gives me a bad taste in my mouth. :-( Would you mind stating which photo you refer to? I am very familar with all the photos she had, and I am not aware of any depicting a rocket explosion that she was passing off as a UFO. As a matter of fact, I just met her again last evening, (she is presently back here in the States on a speaking tour) and the Hard Copy Producer, Dean Vallas and I saw THE photo that was alluded to on the segment. She was given the photo that had not been released prior to now, the one taken by Phobos 2 prior to its disapearence. The photo sent back shows a very long cigar shaped "craft"? that is just in front of Phobos-The Moon. I am presently working on getting a copy of same. Let me say this about Marina. She is not only a fascinating person, but this would be in the US the equivalent of Chuck Yeager or John Glenn going public on the UFO phenomenon, using their military backround as the basis of their information. Everyone is always complaining about the "apparent coverup" by those in the know, and here is what is virtually a world reknown avaition hero, speaking about what she knows about this enigma, and so far as is apparent all I have seen is complaints about how Hard Copy depicted the shadow, or this alleged photo of a rocket exploding. What about the information she imparted? Don -- Don Ecker - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request DOMAIN infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to: DOMAIN ftp.uiowa.edu (directory /archives/paranet) ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************