Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 423 Tuesday, June 11th 1991 Today's Topics: Re--robertson Panel UFO over Romania Miscellaneous Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee Re: Valle Interview Re: Valle Interview Men in Black Countermeasures... Re: "Martian" Chronicles Re: "Martian" Chronicles Re: Hypnosis and Social Gathering The Lost Squadron/Bermuda Triangle New Publication 1MUFON SYMPOSIUM Re: Ufons Re: UFONS BETTY AND BARNEY HILL UFO over Bucharest Romania ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker) Subject: Re--robertson Panel Date: 10 Jun 91 00:02:00 GMT Deane Ward said: > It has been rumored that the saucer flap around that time was one of the > reasons that caused Project Blue Book (along with the Condon Report) to > be terminated as promptly as it was. Deane, the Condon Report was not even considered until the Hillsdale sightings in 1966. The took off circa 1967-68, and was completed in 69, at which time the AF got out of public UFOlogy. Don -- Don Ecker - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) Subject: UFO over Romania Date: 10 Jun 91 22:40:00 GMT >From the Rocky Mountain News, June 10, 1991. Many people in the Romanian capital of Bucharest watched an unidentified flying object move back and forth in a regular motion overnight on May 30-31. A journalist for Agence France Presse who witnessed the UFO ssaid it was a bright object, clearly visible in spite of heavy cloud, and probably an altitude of sseveral thousand feet. A Romanian defense official said nothing unusual had been seen and suggested that the phenomenon might have been an optical illusion or a trick of the weather. -- ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: ParaNet(sm).Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Miscellaneous Date: 10 Jun 91 23:15:00 GMT > > Yes, indeed. BTW, what do you know about the 'Rainbow > > Declaration?' I understand that Brandenburg did this work and > > would like to hear a little more about it. > > I think it's in last year's MUFON Symposium proceedings. I'll have a > look and let you know. Thanks. Linda Bird sent me a copy. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Re: Wernikoff On Maccabee Date: 10 Jun 91 23:17:00 GMT > > why does he not provide Dr. Nathan with the negatives he has requested? > > That's an easy answer. They're not Bruce's to provide. Ed himself will > not release the originals. What is his reasoning? I recall Ed telling me that he would release them to any responsible party after the book was published. I wonder if he would not allow this to happen now? Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Delton@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton) Subject: Re: Valle Interview Date: 10 Jun 91 06:08:00 GMT There seems to be little room for middle ground in the UFO field. Too many seem to feel that "If you aren't with us (a true beleiver) then you're against us!!" Appreciate seeing your reasoned approach. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: Valle Interview Date: 10 Jun 91 20:21:00 GMT -> Conceivably Dr. Valle was using a bit of hyperbole in his reference -> Sagan, Asimov, and the National Enquirer, but I still feel we -> should all learn to be a tad more tolerant of the skeptical mind. -> Asimov has written some science primers for young people which are -> quite well done, so even he is being of service to society. Absolutely no arguments there, Sheldon. As I said, Asimov is one of the people I have admired most since childhood. He is probably one of the great thinkers of the Twentieth Century, certainly one of its most prolific writers. Which is why I find it all the more surprising that he displays such cavalier contempt for the UFO phenomenon. It is possible for him to do great service to society in one area, while doing it great disservice in another. I agree we need to be MORE than a "tad" tolerant of the skeptical mind; in fact I think we should all be skeptics. (Remember that skepticism is an approach, not a belief system). However, having set for ourselves a strict set of parameters for analyzing the known data and for coming to tentative conclusions, we should be prepared to acknowledge and accept, at least tentatively, the story that data tells. It seems to me that many skeptics, rather than accept that data, keep changing the parameters for acceptance - they keep moving the target further back. -> As far as the Larry King interview you referred to, I would have to -> ask what SPECIFICALLY Asimov has seen in the sky that he couldn't -> identify. From your excerpt taken out of context, it is difficult -> to discern if it was UFOs, cloud formations, astronomical bodies, -> weather phenomena, etc. ( Of course I realize that the latter could -> all be mistaken for true UFOs. ) What does it matter? I am not trained in meteorology, astronomy, or nubology, nor am I particular adept at aircraft identification. Yet in 26 years of fairly intense sky-watching, I HAVE NEVER SEEN A THING IN THE SKY THAT I COULD NOT APPLY A PROSAIC LABEL TO. I have to assume that Asimov is a much better observer than I am. What could he possibly have seen that he was unable to identify? Do you think one of the great minds of the 20th Century could be mystified by a cloud formation? If not, then has he not just acknowledged having seen a UFO? And if so, IS THAT NOT A SCIENTIFIC CURIOSITY? This is my main fear - that science has lost its basic curiosity and is now preoccupied with formalizing procedures, obtaining funding, "publish or perish", etc. -> Additionally, when Larry asked -> Asimov about UFOs, and he responded that "they were ridiculous", -> what exactly did he mean? UFO's themselves are ridiculous, the -> possibility of their being a reality is ridiculous, or the -> sightings and/or the individuals reporting them are ridiculous. -> Clarification is required. I agree with you to some extent, but if he found anything of interest in them at all, I'm sure he would have said so. The implication seemed to be that the idea of UFOs as aliens was ridiculous. This underlines another problem skeptics seem to have: separating the issue of strangeness from the issue of extramundane origin. They CAN be treated separately, and should be. Claiming that a UFO phenomenon exists and is thus far unexplained is a far cry from claiming that the aliens are here, run for your lives. The latter is premature, and can be seen as ridiculous, whereas the former is not only NOT ridiculous, its as good as proven. -> I must say that I even find myself becoming increasingly skeptical, -> not because I don't believe in the reality of UFOs ( I do !! ), but -> because it seems that virtually every "breakthrough" case that's -> touted as "proof positive" seems to fall apart with time. I've gone through the same thing myself. Still, there are a few bright spots that would be impossible to ignore: Hudson Valley, Belgium, Kanazawa, Delphos, Trans-en-Provence, Santiago, just to name a few. -> (By the way, I am following with interest your postings on Lydia, and -> look forward to an update soon.) June 30 will be my next update. -> In any event, I'm certain you'll agree that this whole business -> and it is BIG BUSINESS), gets very frustrating at times. However, -> with perseverance, dedication, and sincerity, we shall succeed in -> making some sense of this quandary someday. Ahlevai. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Men in Black Countermeasures... Date: 10 Jun 91 16:00:15 GMT Don, I liked your briefing on what to do when/if one encounters MIB. What do you do if you FAINT first when seeing a MIB, which is what I'd do!! Next, how does one stay so cool to do the things you suggest? I'd fall apart for sure. Thanks, Linda -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Shaffer@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Shaffer) Subject: Re: "Martian" Chronicles Date: 10 Jun 91 07:01:00 GMT Don, So there's actually a newsgroup called "alt.alien.visitors"? Must have gotten started about the time the big "these phenomena shouldn't be allowed to have a newsgroup" war was raging in sci.skeptic. (Which was the same time I stopped wasting my money on sci.skeptic!) How active is it (messages/day would be fine)? I've got to decide whether to waste any money on it :-) -- Jim Shaffer - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Shaffer@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Shaffer@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Shaffer) Subject: Re: "Martian" Chronicles Date: 10 Jun 91 07:15:00 GMT OK, I guess I'd better clear something up for the people (most of you?) that weren't there... I said "the big 'these phenomena shouldn't be allowed to have a newsgroup' war". I should've said it was "these *people* shouldn't be allowed to have a newsgroup." You see, sci.skeptic seems to be dominated by the "rabid debunker" type. Maybe not in absolute numbers, but certainly in loudness. So people were naturally getting very upset that they couldn't hold a polite discussion on the possibility of paranormal phenomena without these people jumping all over them and with their holier-than-thou attitude. So someone suggested starting a new newsgroup. The trouble was that they wanted to put it in the science hierarchy. Not surprisingly, there was overwhelming opposition by the people who insisted that studying such things just wasn't science. It was pretty amazing. You'd think they were trying to suggest that creationism be taught in schools or something! About this time, I decided that I didn't need to be spending money on all the close-minded garbage getting tossed around. I imagine that eventually several newsgroups were created in someplace less sensitive, such as the "alternative" (alt) hierarchy. But I don't know for sure, because I only get a few newsgroups. It's not like I'm at a major node where I can have all of them on the system and pick what I want to read. OK, is everybody *more* confused now? :-) -- Jim Shaffer - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Shaffer@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: Hypnosis and Social Gathering Date: 11 Jun 91 03:57:44 GMT Hi David, Regarding a ufology social for the western states, I am not much into overnight camping. However, for a UFO conference or social, why not meet halfway at the Colorado River (Lake Havasu City) as that would be cool, fun, and attractive? Let us know when you have it organized.... As for Kathie Davis, I think she was pretty tired of being chased down by the media. I think her attitude was, "I don't care if you believe me or not. Here's what happened." I can't think of anything to ask your mother (hypnotist) at the moment; perhaps some other people will. Regards!! Linda ? -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: The Lost Squadron/Bermuda Triangle Date: 11 Jun 91 04:30:21 GMT This is condensed from the June 7th PHOENIX GAZETTE: "What were first thought to be the remnants of the five Navy Avengers that mysteriously disappeared Dec. 5, 1945, on a training flight from the naval air base in Ft. Lauderdale, are not the remains of squadron Flight 19. "The planes that were discovered 10 miles off the coast of Florida are remnants of 5 separate incidents, most likely separate accidents during low- altitude torpedo runs, according to archaeologists. "Coincidences contributed to the belief the lost Squadron had been found---including the same tail number 28 on one of the planes, in addition to the fact that the 5 Avengers were found within l 1/2 miles of each other. "Thus the Bermuda Triangle---bounded by Bermuda, Miami and Puerto Rico--where ships and planes are thought to mysteriously vanish--perhaps grabbed by alien visitors or mysterious ocean dwellers--is refueled with possibilities. "What happened to the 14 U.S. crewmen that December day remains a mystery, a part of the myth of the Bermuda Triangle, a part of legend. "The truth is that the crew probably ditched at sea, having become lost and eventully running out of fuel. But it is far more exciting to unleash the imagination in mystery, something that is now destined to run free until the real Lost Squadron is found." -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David.Dorsey@f201.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Dorsey) Subject: New Publication Date: 8 Jun 91 02:15:00 GMT ANNOUNCING: An international networking journal devoted to the exploration of: * electric and magnetic technology * anti-gravity * atomic and space-time concepts * harmonics and vibrations * energy transformation techniques * natural phenomena The ELECTRIC SPACECRAFT JOURNAL is a quarterly publication specifically for those doing creative research and experiments in the area of spacecraft technology and for those interested in the subject. The purpose of this publication is to make it possible for individuals to communicate and cooperate both formally and informally with each other in an effort to develop new technology for spacecraft. The Journal is an interactive platform for: * experiments * direct observation of phenomena * documents * investigations * historical accounts * new ideas and concepts * speculations * interpretations and comments ELECTRIC SPACECRAFT JOURNAL P.O. BOX 18387, ASHEVILLE, NC 28814 704-252-8083 FAX 704-683-3511 -- David Dorsey - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: David.Dorsey@f201.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff) Subject: 1MUFON SYMPOSIUM Date: 11 Jun 91 13:16:00 GMT As most of you already know, the MUFON 1991 INTERNATIONAL UFO SYMPOSIUM will be held in Chicago on the 5th, 6th, and 7th of July. SPEAKERS AND TOPICS OF DISCUSSION WILL INCLUDE: ___________________________________________________________________ COLIN ANDREWS, England, co-author of _Circular Evidence_ and _Crop Circles - The Latest Evidence_; "English Crop Circles" JOHN CARPENTER, M.S.W., Springfield, MO; "Clinical Hypnotherapy" MICHAEL CHOROST, M.A., Durham, NC and DENNIS STACY, B.A., San Antonio, TX; "Review of the Crop Circle Mystery" STANTON FRIEDMAN, M.S., Canada; "New Disclosures on Roswell" LINDA MOULTON HOWE, M.A., Huntington Valley, PA and JOHN ALTSHULER, M.D., Englewood, CO; "Cattle Mutilations" DAVID JACOBS, Ph.D., Wynmoor, PA; "What Can We Believe in Abduction Accounts?" C. B. SCOTT JONES, Ph.D., Falls Church, VA; "Government UFO Connections" BRUCE MACCABEE, Ph.D., Sabillasville, MD; "Gulf Breeze Update" {JEAN-PIERRE PETIT, France; "Has Science Something to do with UFOs?" GENE PHILLIPS, J.D., Highland Park, IL; "Insights Into the Ancient Astronaut Theory" ZECHARIAH SITCHIN, author, New York, NY; "The Twelfth Planet - Key to the UFO Enigma" MICHAEL SWORDS, Ph.D., Kalamazoo, MI; "Modern Biology, Close Encounters and the ETH" ___________________________________________________________________ {I will be present at all three sessions of this symposium, and would like to encourage all users of this echo to post any questions you might have for these speakers, and I will do my best to obtain answers for all those unable to attend. Sheldon -- Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan) Subject: Re: Ufons Date: 11 Jun 91 16:04:00 GMT Hi David, UFONS is "UFO Newsclipping Service," a monthly publication in which newspaper articles about UFO sightings, abductions, etc., are reprinted. The source papers are all over the world -- the US, Australia, England, Canada, Singapore... you name it. Also reprinted are articles about Bigfoot, Forteana, Crop Circles (including the photos which makes all the difference in understanding what the text is talking about!), cattle mutilations, -- basically anything in the genre that people who read about UFOs might find interesting. You can buy a single issue to "test drive" it, or a mini-subscription for a few months, or a full year. Cost per issue is $5. Although there are many UFO magazines and a variety of publications on the topic and we all have our favorites, I like UFONS better because it's not a writer's distillation of reports but is instead the original reports themselves and I can do my own distilling of the information they contain. (Of course, Don Ecker's UFO Magazine is good too, but it's a quite different thing--he can take stories into detail there, where in UFONS you'll only get the raw reports.) If you're interested, write or call the editor-publisher at this address: U.F.O. NEWSCLIPPING SERVICE Route 1, Box 220 Plumerville, Arkansas 72127 USA phone: Lucius Farish--you can get the number from directory assistance He also arranges the annual Ozark UFO Conference which was in April this year. If you try the publication, let me know how you like it, okay? Oh, and by the way, what you get is 20 pages (printed on both sides) 8-1/2x14 size. The May '91 issue included these titles: UFOS REPORTED IN E. OREGON; SPRINGFIELDIAN'S UFO CRASH STORY TO BE AIRED ON NATIONAL TV (this was about Gerald Anderson, the man who was AT the Roswell UFO crash site and saw the live aliens); ALIEN CONTACTEES CREATE 'ENCOUNTER' GROUP; STRANGE SIGHTINGS IN GHE TWO VIRGINIAS; MYSTERY CIRCLE FOUND IN TUNNEL; CHARIOTS OF FIRE (200 UFO sightings over Haifa, Israel); CRYPTOZOOLOGISTS STALK ELUSIVE BEASTS, SAVING FACE ON MARS, YETI TREK, ANIMALS APPEARED AND DISAPPEARED... and so on. [You can probably guess by this message that I'm a BIG fan of UFONS!] Let me know if you have further questions. I'll be glad to help. ==Peggy== -- Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan) Subject: Re: UFONS Date: 11 Jun 91 16:11:00 GMT Hi Bob! Gee, it's great to hear from you again! I have been calling in to see if there would be a message here from you but I've been trying at bad times apparently because I kept getting busy signals...today I'm calling a bit earlier. I know what you mean about "when the meter's running"! Do you have an offline reader for BBS (like TAPCIS or ATO)? I've been told that we should be using Silver Express Reader which works about the same way as TAP and ATO, they tell me, and I've downloaded it from a local BBS, but haven't gotten to unpack it yet... talk about procrastinators!!! --Really, just been trying to keep up with work and haven't had a chance to experiment with new stuff. Anyway, maybe that would help save the old meter fees. Let me know if you want a copy of it. It's either shareware or freeware, but I'll check to see which. Glad you got those clippingstoo. I haven't called in to Issues on CIS for a while, hoping that the test message you posted would show up in Mail but it never did and this past week when I did call in, it wasn't in Issues either. Georgia says I'm the only one this is happening to and I'm really mystified. She suggested maybe it had something to do with ATO but the last several calls I made were via ProComm+ (same as here) so I don't see how that could be linked. Only other thing I can think of--and this is totally uneducated guessing because I don't know what I'm talking about--is maybe my forum setting is botched somehow??? I recently got into the forum setting inadvertently I recall and maybe I also goofed and changed something. If you think that could be a source of the problem, have you any idea what I should do to correct it? Hope your other situation is working out well. Got to run now...take care and will talk to you soon. ==Peggy== -- Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ncar!CU.NIH.GOV!ZAK Subject: BETTY AND BARNEY HILL Date: 11 Jun 91 21:42:49 GMT From: ZAK@CU.NIH.GOV From: David.Villa@f2704.n206.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Villa) + Hopkins' mentions in his book that there was a movie made about the + Betty and Barney Hill abduction case, which he states, 'Can be seen as a + sci/fi rerun on most late night television stations' or somthing to that + effect (not wanting to misquote Budd). Have you seen this film? The film, 'The UFO Incident,' which was based on the book by John G. Fuller entitled _The_Interrupted_Journey_, does indeed run on the 'late show' from time to time. It might even be available at your local video rental store. It's been a long time since I saw it, but I remember being chilled by it and thought that it was done without unnecessary sensationalism. The Hills were portrayed in a very sympathetic manner, and the film was an enjoyable experience. Contrast this to _Communion_'s self-satisfied, trying-hard-to-act-like-a-really-truly-eccentrically-brilliant-writer Whitley Streiber (SP?). What an irritating character! Is he like this in person? -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ncar!hpvclmd.vcd.hp.com!miked Subject: UFO over Bucharest Romania Date: 11 Jun 91 21:43:33 GMT From: Mike Dobbs The newspaper here in Portland Oregon had the following blurb yesterday. UFO Many people in the Romanian capital of Bucharest watched an unidentifed flying object move back and forth in a regular motion overnight on May 30-31. A journalist for Agence France Presse who witnessed the UFO said it was a bright object, clearly visable in spite of heavy clouds, and probably at an altitude of several thousand feet. A Romanian defense official said nothing unusual had been seen, and suggested that the phenomenon might have been an optical illusion or a trick of the weather. Has anybody elso heard more? There seems to have been a lot of observers. -------- Mike Dobbs / Internet: miked@vcd.hp.com ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request DOMAIN infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to: DOMAIN ftp.uiowa.edu (directory /archives/paranet) ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************