Abduction Digest, Number 43 Friday, January 24th 1992 (C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved. Today's Topics: Recall-Abuse Abduction research Abduction Video Recall Abduction Research Abduction research ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff) Subject: Recall-Abuse Date: 22 Jan 92 05:02:03 GMT In a message to Jim Speiser <19-Jan-92 23:33> David Jacobs wrote: DJ> But, with the abduction phenomenon, it is a bit more DJ> complicated. The events that have transpired in an abduction DJ> are stored in an area of the mind that is not accessible to DJ> normal recall except under circumstances of relaxed and focused DJ> concentration. Hi Dave, when you use the term 'mind' here, are you referring to a specific physical region of the brain... and if so, what structures are involved? Or, are you alluding to something more akin to compartmentalized memory? DJ> When this happens the subject finally remembers the DJ> experiences for the first time, as it were, and allows the DJ> memories to pass into an area of the mind where they are DJ> amenable to normal recall. Which area of the 'mind' do the memories pass into to make them retrievable? DJ> Doing abduction research is quite difficult, and one of the DJ> most difficult things to do is to sort through the testimony DJ> and decide what is real and what is not real (obviously, I am DJ> making assumptions here). Perhaps, but a most valid assumption! Isn't attempting to discern reality from misinterpretation the whole crux of the matter here - not only in abductions, but in ufology in toto? DJ> One thing is sure though, consciously recalled material is DJ> certainly just as suspect as material recalled with the aid of DJ> hypnosis. MAYBE even more so. *IF* a screen memory actually has been implanted by someone (or something), it seems logical that the screen is what the individual will consciously recall. DJ> First of all, the majority of abductees do not have a history DJ> of childhood abuse, but some abductees do have abuse in their DJ> backgrounds. Obviously some do, but is it a statistically significant number? Of your cases investigated, what percentage have you found to contain a history of abuse, and what psychological evaluation techniques were utilized to spot this abuse? DJ> For these abductees, the abuse has been dealt with in standard DJ> therapy and they have learned to come to terms with it. Thus, DJ> they would have no psychological need to disassociate and DJ> invent abduction tales. Is it not possible that some of your subjects *HAVE* suffered abuse, but have not yet dealt with it in conventional therapy? DJ> Furthermore, many abductions are multiple. People see DJ> others being abducted who will independentally confirm the DJ> events. How this relates to abuse is difficult to imagine. I agree Dave, these would be the most difficult to explain through psychological models. DJ> Although it is possible, the chances are against parents DJ> bringing their children in for counseling when they are in the DJ> act of systematically, and brutally abusing them. Seems logical... although I can also envision that as being the 'perfect cover' for the abusive parent. Who would suspect a parent who was concerned enough to bring their child in for therapy? Children will tell very little to the therapist when under the threat of abuse. DJ> All someone has to do is simply claim that an abduction was DJ> caused by childhood abuse. Saying it makes it so. What I am DJ> saying is that there is no evidence to suggest that this is the DJ> case. Please let me clarify something about my views in this Dave. All I can say at this point is that I have noticed what appears to be a statistically significant number of individuals that claim abduction, to have also experienced moderate to severe physical, sexual, or emotional abuse at some point in their past. I am not stating that abduction is CAUSED by abuse, merely that there appears to be a correlation in SOME cases. Finally, I received your letter today re: the topic I had written to you about in December. Would it be OK with you to discuss that issue in this forum? Take care, Sheldon -- Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill.Chalker.UFORA.Associate.NSW@f8.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW) Subject: Abduction research Date: 19 Jan 92 18:05:00 GMT David, Welcome back to this folder. I am especially pleased to have the opportunity of communicating with you in a more direct fashion. You may recollect that corridor "debate" Jenny Randles & I had with you and an associate back at the Washington MUFON conference in 1987. I was please to have had the opportunity to meet you directly albeit within the the constraints of a busy conference. I've been looking into abductions in Australia since the mid 70s. The Journal of UFO Studies recently in a review by Keith Basterfield, the Godics & Mark Rodeghier highlighted that "I presented the first comprehensive discussion of Australian abductions" but dates the reference to 1984. That was a later appearance of a paper that was first aired at an Australian UFO conference in October 1979. It was published in the MUFON Journal in August, 1980. Previously to this I had presented a paper "Beyond the CE3 Down Under: Notes on the Apparent Absence of Contact, Time Lapse and Abduction Cases in Australia", at an Australian UFO conference in November, 1977. These 2 papers summarised the early phase of my research in Australia abduction experiences. Although a number of cases were being looked at, concerns about the use of hypnotic techniques and other considerations of witness welfare and ethics delayed a more intensive examination of this aspect of the UFO controversy. Also cases until the late 80s were few and far between at least for Australia. With Dick Haines 3 stage technique and study protocol I at last felt that there were procedures that could be used that allayed my concerns about abduction research methodology. I then spent sometime evaluating a suitable professional person to help me. I was not going to get involved in doing regressions myself. Since 1988 I have been working with a very qualified clinical hypnotherapist/clinical psychologist on a long term informal research programme. I have also carried out seperate personal research and have worked closely with others , in particular the UFORA network, specifically Keith BAsterfield and Vladimir & Pony Godic. Now after having been involved with more than 30 cases I am still undecided as to whether abduction type cases tell us more more about ourselves or UFOs. A bit of both I think. My research has not confirmed the strong patterns you and Budd have come across, but there are individual cases that have some of these elements. Some of my research has been covered in the review articles by Keith Basterfield and the Godics in IUR (July/August, 1989 & May/June, 1990) as well as by Mark Moravec, ACUFOS Bulletin, March, 1990. Seperately I have had published articles in Australian Penthouse, November, 1989 ("Abducted?" - a general review, which also lists 6 Australian cases) and Nature & Health, Autumn, 1990 ("Alien Abductions - a shamanic perspective on UFOs"). The latter articles expands on the shaman theme that I raised in my Washington conversation with you. I still feel that until the similarities that occur between UFO abduction and shamanic initiations etc, are reconciled and satisfactorally explained we will be left with an incomplete picture of the abduction question. I look forward to ongoing research dialogue, Regards from Bill Chalker -- Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bill.Chalker.UFORA.Associate.NSW@f8.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Abduction Video Date: 22 Jan 92 06:17:44 GMT In a message to All <19 Jan 92 06:54> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote: SW> least, Mark Rodeghier. As the credits rolled by, I also noticed a SW> few "locals" such as Don Ecker, Jim Speiser, and Vicki Cooper. My SW> hat's off to all of you. A job well done! Aw, jeez, now I guess I'll HAVE to buy one... Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Recall Date: 22 Jan 92 06:38:44 GMT Dave: Thanks for your thoughts. And I'm glad you're back and that things are starting to cook around here. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff) Subject: Abduction Research Date: 24 Jan 92 02:56:01 GMT In a message to David Jacobs <19-Jan-92 11:05> Bill Chalker wrote: BC> With Dick Haines 3 stage technique and study protocol I at last BC> felt that there were procedures that could be used that allayed BC> my concerns about abduction research methodology. I then spent BC> sometime evaluating a suitable professional person to help me. Bill, what were your principal criteria in evaluating and ultimately selecting your associate hypnotherapist/psychologist? BC> Now after having been involved with more than 30 cases I am BC> still undecided as to whether abduction type cases tell us more BC> more about ourselves or UFOs. A bit of both I think. Thus far, I would have to say it's ourselves. But as everyone in this forum is aware, there are many cases that just cannot be explained away though psychological methods. BC> I still feel that until the similarities that occur between UFO BC> abduction and shamanic initiations etc, are reconciled and BC> satisfactorily explained we will be left with an incomplete BC> picture of the abduction question. Could you elaborate a bit on this area Bill? Take care, -- Sheldon -- Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent.Wilcox@p5.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Brent Wilcox) Subject: Abduction research Date: 23 Jan 92 21:04:50 GMT In a message to David Jacobs <19 Jan 92 11:05> Bill Chalker wrote: BC> Autumn, 1990 ("Alien Abductions - a shamanic perspective on BC> UFOs"). The latter articles expands on the shaman theme that I BC> raised in my Washington conversation with you. I still feel that BC> until the similarities that occur between UFO abduction and BC> shamanic initiations etc, are reconciled and satisfactorally BC> explained we will be left with an BC> incomplete picture of the abduction question. Bill -- Where can I find a copy of the Shamanic/Abduction article? I'll gladly send an envelope and ISCs... I didn't know any work had been done along those lines, but it's a relationship I've been toying with myself for a couple years, informally, and I'd be fascinated to see what you've written about it. Thanks. -- Brent -- Brent Wilcox - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Brent.Wilcox@p5.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG ******************************************************************************** For permission to reproduce or redistribute this digest, contact: DOMAIN Michael.Corbin@paranet.org UUCP scicom!paranet.org!Michael.Corbin ****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T******************* Submissions UUCP {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!abduct Submissions DOMAIN abduct@scicom.alphacdc.com Admin Address abduct-request@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu Mail to private Paranet/Fidonet addresses from the newsletters: DOMAIN firstname.lastname@paranet.org UUCP scicom!paranet.org!firstname.lastname ****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************