Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 435 Monday, July 8th 1991 Today's Topics: UFO SIGHTIHG IN NEW YORK CITY Re: Martian Anomalies Update Re: Roswell on Phx Radio Hi -where ya been? **** Warning ***** Kecksburg UFO Crash Re: UFO Crash at Roswell Re: Roswell on Phx Radio Re: Bilderbergers & UN? Alien evolution Hill Abduction: 1 Of 7 Hill Abduction: 1 Of 7 Hoax Document Re: Bilderbergers & UN? More on Crop Circles.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill.Vissaggi@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Vissaggi) Subject: UFO SIGHTIHG IN NEW YORK CITY Date: 6 Jul 91 04:51:00 GMT HI, MY NAME IS BILL VISSAGGI I LIVE JUST OUT SIDE N.Y CITY A FRIND OF MY HAS JUST HAD A INTERESTING SIGHTING IN NEW YORK. HE IS A BUS DRIVER FOR MTA,WHILE WAITING AT HIS BUS STOP HE SAW TWO OBJECTS VERY LOW IN THE SKY, AND FARLY CLOSE TO HIM. THIS GENTELMAN HAS ALWAYS HAD A VERY NEGITIVE ATTATUDE TOWARD THE UFO SUBJECT. HE IS VERY INTERESTED IN WHY HE HAS NOT HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT THIS SIGHTIHG IN THE MEIDA. THER WERE MANY WITTNESS OTHER THEN HIM SELF. WE BOTH LIVE IN YONKERS N.Y I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM ANY WHO HAS ANY INFORMATION ON THIS SIGHTING. THANK YOU BILL VISSAGGI -- Bill Vissaggi - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bill.Vissaggi@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: Martian Anomalies Update Date: 6 Jul 91 04:21:00 GMT Dan, Do keep us posted about your book! I have THE MONUMENT OF MARS with DiPietro and Molenaar & Brandenburg as well as Carlotto. It will be good to see an update with more text. (I bought the book last year at the Florida MUFON.) I think I got the book titlright... Regards, Linda -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: Roswell on Phx Radio Date: 6 Jul 91 15:01:00 GMT In a message to Jim Speiser <07-03-91 23:48> Don Allen wrote: ->What..no Phillip Klass?? I'm disappointed :-) So was I! Klass I can handle. Stackpole's too sensible to argue with. We wound up agreeing most of the time. ->BTW..Did you notice how well Randle handled Klass on "Larry ->King Live"? Well, I thought Kevin did a decent job, but I wish he hadn't fudged on the first question, about "was this the first book on the subjectt?" Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@paranet.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Hi -where ya been? Date: 6 Jul 91 04:57:07 GMT Clark, Haven't seen any posts from you in ages! Have you been working on "The Continuum?" I am looking forward to seeing it. Take Care, Linda -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@p0.f95.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: **** Warning ***** Date: 7 Jul 91 23:41:00 GMT This was on another echo. I found it interesting, and figured someone out there might want to look into it. * Originally from Mike Mansfield * Originally dated 07-05-91 23:20 In a recent 'research study' done by UTMB Neuropsychology Galveston on the effects of migrane headaches upon lifestyle, a few CURIOUS questions arose, being that my wife was a participant, she was able to relay this information to me. (She had recently been scheduled for a Cat Scan to diagnose unusual migrane headaches) The questionairres were in general, mostly generic, but the following questions were asked that make me feel *perhaps* something more is being studied than just headaches... 1) Have you ever felt you were being watched? next question was a clincher... 2) Do you believe in Extraterrestrial life? I see little reason that such questions should be included in a purely scientific study unless the medical profession has turned 180 degrees and suddenly believes in extraterrestrials... (still waiting for the results of the Cat-Scan... although I wonder if we'll get to see what was actually taken, or not...) -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ncar!PSUVM.PSU.EDU!CCB104 Subject: Kecksburg UFO Crash Date: 8 Jul 91 03:34:29 GMT From: CCB104@PSUVM.PSU.EDU The following is from T. Scott Crain, Jr., State Section Director for MUFON in Pennsylvania; and Stan Gordon, State Director of MUFON in Pennsylvania and Director of the Pennsylvania Association for the Study of the Unexplained (PASU). I am transmitting it on their behalf (and at their request). +>>>>BEGINS HERE>>>>> In Paranet Newsletter Vol. 1 #386 I (Scott Crain) presented a dissenting view from an article by Robert Young outlining his negative posture toward the UFO that allegedly crashed near Kecksburg, PA, in December 1965. Jim Speiser responded to my report in Paranet Newsletter Vol. 1 #387, raising some questions about the witnesses and data presented. In order to clarify some of the circumstances surrounding this case, I asked Stan Gordon to prepare a response detailing the facts of how the incident unfolded and how the witnesses described what had happened. Below is a transcription of Stan Gordon's reply (dated June 12, 1991): The two firemen who were interviewed for the Unsolved Mysteries sequence were indeed the actual people involved. They were Jim Mayes (at the time Assistant Fire Chief for Kecksburg) and Jim Romansky (a fireman from an outside company who came to the area to search for what was thought to have been wreckage from an aircraft believed to have exploded over the area). Also taped for the show but not used (due to the length of the sequence and time constraints, much information apparently had to be edited out) was an interview with Robert Bitner, who has been established to be a former Kecksburg Fire Chief. Bitner went on record also as stating that he arrived later that evening at the site and was forbidden to go into the woods by military personnel. Bitner was not the Fire Chief at the time of the incident. Bitner was interviewed for the nationally syndicated Evening Magazine sequence on Kecksburg, which also aired nationally. Many of the local firemen who were involved have since passed away (due, of course, to natural causes). Some of the others are now up in age and refuse to get involved publicly; others have talked to us and verified that they were at the scene but won't get involved because of the controversy and because of the ridicule by some people. This situation is making it very difficult as a researcher to bring out information on the case without identifying the witnesses involved. But it has been my policy for many years to let witnesses come to me confidentially with information, with the promise that I will not reveal their identities if this is their request. To try to give outside verification to the fact that our information and witnesses exist, we permitted two news media representatives (Sharon Santus of the Greensburg, PA Tribune-Review and David Templeton of the Pittsburgh Press) to examine our affidavits, listen to taped interviews, and talk directly with some key informants who wished not to be identified. This was done since both reporters were willing to conduct a detailed investigation of their own into the Kecksburg affair. But they have supported the policy of confidentiality as well. Now many witnesses to various phases have now gone on public record (see Press story). Reporter John Murphy, the first media person on the scene (he was the news director for WHJB Radio in Greensburg and is now deceased), kept very detailed notes on the event, assisted by various staff members who were flooded with phone calls at the station as the project passed through. Many of these notes were later used when he put together a radio special on the event a week later called 'Object in the Woods.' Based on loggings that were done at the time with eyewitnesses, the time of sighting in the general area of impact was about 4:47 p.m. Utilizing other times that seem accurate from previous reporting areas along the object's path, we can give an estimate of its speed. But the most interesting movements of the object were within a few miles of the impact location. We will in future reports attempt to visually show the interesting movements of the object around the local ridges. The object appears to have had a control system, since it was guiding itself along the ridge sides, apparently trying to avoid hitting them. When the object passed through the Pittsburgh area heading towards Greensburg, the police and media were jammed with calls from observers, who, for the most part, thought that what was seen was an aircraft on fire. It would have been normal procedure to dispatch police and fire personnel to try to locate the crash site. There would have been no reason for military involvement, when it is a daily civilian emergency management operation if such an event occurs. We are very familiar with bolide and meteor sighting reports. We deal with then every year, and we are well aware of the characteristics of fireball-type meteors. We realize that these natural eye-catchers can appear very close, seem to be landing over the next hill when indeed they are quite a distance away. Independent observers, most unknown to one another and not seeing the detailed data in our possession, describe more than just a fireball coming down into the woods. Some witnesses only caught the object in a brief glimpse, but others, depending on their vantage point, saw the object move over a good distance. What they saw was a very slowly moving, structured device, with flames coming from the rear section. Some describe flames around the object, also vapor appearance as well. Most importantly, had the object been going in a straight path from some of the vantage points verified, it would have passed near Mount Pleasant and have been reported in other areas as well. But the object turned and headed back towards Kecksburg. The object was seen from Mount Pleasant, going down in the Kecksburg area. The object was not airborne past the Kecksburg area. The only witness at the time that the media interviewed who saw the object was young Nevin Kalp. He only caught the fiery object out of the corner of his eye as he and his sister played not far away. Moments later, a column of blue smoke rose from the woods. But other independent witnesses, mostly local residents, have now given us information that they also saw the slowly moving object come down into the wooded area. Another witness verified seeing the blue smoke and dust rising. The Air Force officer who was stationed at Lockborn AFB in 1965 holds a public position and wishes not to be identified. He had given me the information of seeing the tarp-covered object arriving at the base, long before the Unsolved Mysteries show was aired. Len Stringfield is working with the two witnesses in Ohio, who were involved at Wright-Patterson AFB. The second witness just recently has agreed to talk, and he has now clarified many points. Don't base your opinion on this aspect of the case by what you have read in the papers. They have not given the complete scenario as to what actually occurred, and some details are inaccurate. Len is planning an updated status report to be released later this year, and more information relative to the Kecksburg case will appear. The few witnesses who decided to go public on the Unsolved Mysteries show deserve a lot of credit. Many of these people were subject to much ridicule. For some of these people (Jim Romansky in particular), it was a major decision in his life whether or not to appear since he did not want to expose his family to the problems that might follow (and did). Generally, most of those appearing did the show for only one reason: that hopefully it would cause other informants to come forward. Future reports will reveal new witnesses and new information relative to the Kecksburg mystery. Jim Romansky was the fireman interviewed on Unsolved Mysteries who came across the half-buried object in the woods. Bill Bulebosh, a local resident, was known to us as a second witness to the impacted object. We tracked down Mr. Bulebosh after a tip in 1988, the year after we had met Romansky. Mr. Bulebosh wanted no publicity, but during the week of filming for the Unsolved Mysteries sequence, he came out to the area and met Romansky for the first time. He then gave permission to be interviewed by the local media, and this was done in support to verify the statements that Romansky had made. Both men unknown to each other up till this point had given us detailed information about what they had seen in 1965, including the fact that they separately took us into the large wooded area and led us to the same spot where the object had rested. The other two witnesses refused any publicity at this time. One witness is still local, and he is fearful that his business and reputation as a community leader could be damaged. The fourth witness was a local resident at the time of the occurrence but currently lives out-of-state. More information pertaining to their experiences will also be disclosed in future reports. - Stan Gordon <<<< Don Allen wrote: DA=> DA=>Funny, I don't recall having elected the Bilderberger group to office; nor DA=>am I convinced that their policies are in the best interests of citizens DA=>worldwide. WHO appointed this group to speak for all of us? DA=> DA=>I think this group bears watching. DA=> DA=>Don Don, I think this old adage applies here: "He who has the money, makes the rules" John -- John Feilke - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Feilke@f14.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Powell@p8.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell) Subject: Alien evolution Date: 3 Jul 91 18:27:42 GMT In a message to All <26 Jun 91 13:28> Kier Bass wrote: KB> I the recent issue of Ad Astra [Space exploration mag] there is KB> an article describing how two Canadian scientists working with KB> the Museum of nature in Ottowa traced the evolution of a KB> particular species of dinosaur. Basically, they theorise that if KB> the dinosaurs had not gone extinct, that one in particular, KB> "Stenonychosaurus Inequalis was evolving in a direction that KB> would have made it an advanced intelligence". The picture that KB> they show of the form it evoled into looks very close to some KB> form of Grey. "...stands one and a half meters tall with with a KB> large bulging head, prtruding yellow eyes and a flat nose..." the KB> dinosaur it was based on evolved with an opposable thumb, even KB> though it had two other fingers. Just thought I'd post this. I believe this is also discussed/referenced in Out There by Blum. Thanks, take care. John. -- John Powell - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Powell@p8.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Powell@p8.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Powell) Subject: Hill Abduction: 1 Of 7 Date: 3 Jul 91 19:30:14 GMT In a message to All <17 Jun 91 23:29> Michael Corbin wrote: MC> This information should be attributed to Barbara Becker. The file is MC> named HILL.LTR and is in seven parts. Michael, please don't take this as a rag or an attack or anything like that but I have some general questions on how my 7-part Hill posting on the Fidonet UFO Echo got onto this Paranet Echo. (By the way, I have absolutely no problem with this, the flow of information is precisely why we do this in the first place, I'm just interested in the mechanics...) Is there a 'link' between the Echos? Is it 'automatic' or does someone have to snag messages from one and post them in another? Is there a common 'gateway' between the two? I've just recently read a couple of month's worth of messages (from the Abyss BBS in Washington, DC) in this and other Paranet Echos and there are many very good messages, _and_ messengers, that are not available in the Fidonet UFO Echo. There was very little duplication, except obviously at the topic level. Is this a Sysop's-choice type of thing, the selection of Fidonet or Paranet, or is it BBS software-related? Or telecommunications-related, or whatever else? Additionally, is the ABDUCT Echo a MUFON-related, MUFON-sponsored, Echo? Is the P_GEN, ('Paranet-General, I guess), something similar to the Fidonet UFO Echo? Thanks, hope these don't sound like stupid questions, take care. John. -- John Powell - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Powell@p8.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve.Rose@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose) Subject: Hill Abduction: 1 Of 7 Date: 5 Jul 91 08:19:00 GMT Hello John! JP> I've just recently read a couple of month's worth of messages (from JP> the Abyss BBS in Washington, DC) in this and other Paranet Echos and JP> there are many very good messages, _and_ messengers, that are not JP> available in the Fidonet UFO Echo. There was very little duplication, JP> except obviously at the topic level. Is this a Sysop's-choice type of JP> thing, the selection of Fidonet or Paranet, or is it BBS JP> software-related? Or telecommunications-related, or whatever else? Maybe Mike can help you with that HILL dupe situation...but as for your other question... it is an easy choice to make. If you want fluff...ya go with Fido's UFO. We decided not to. If you want thought provoking questions asked and answers given...ya stick with the best ... Paranet! :) AD MODE OFF -- Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Steve.Rose@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve.Rose@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose) Subject: Hoax Document Date: 5 Jul 91 19:13:00 GMT ->> Not only is that a 'hoax'ish looking document...it also ->> paints the pentagon in a conspiritorial light. JS> JS> Not sure I understand completely, Steve, are you saying the Pentagon JS> is above conspiracy, or structurally incapable of it? Sigh...no, my friend. I am just pointing out how the real letter writer is employing a tired old trick...in this case using everyone's assumptions about the Pentagon busily plotting conspiracies (which we all know they are at least CAPABLE of) as a way for sneaking in false credibilities for the authenticity of that hoax-ish letter. I say it is a farce, as much as I believe the letter itself to be a farce. It is sort of saying, "Hey, we know that there MUST be some covert operations going on which are acknowledged or sponsored by the Penatagon, right? So if we add that element of presumed guilt into this 'document' we are drawing up... the gullible will more easily accept the REST of this letter as gospel, too!" No dice. ;-) -- Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Steve.Rose@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don.Allen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Allen) Subject: Re: Bilderbergers & UN? Date: 7 Jul 91 07:21:05 GMT JF> In a message to All <06-30-91 16:30> Don Allen wrote: JF> DA=> JF> DA=>Funny, I don't recall having elected the Bilderberger group to office; JF> DA=>nor am I convinced that their policies are in the best nterests of JF> DA=>citizens worldwide. WHO appointed this group to speak for all of us? JF> DA=> JF> DA=>I think this group bears watching. JF> DA=> JF> DA=>Don JF> JF> Don, JF> I think this old adage applies here: JF> "He who has the money, makes the rules" Ah..yes..The "Golden" rule.. :-( I should send you the infamous Opal File, the Gemstone file(s) and a few other nice little eyeopeners. I betcha Greg Lush knows what they are :-) Keep digging Greg...you're definately on the right track. -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" -- Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Allen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don.Allen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Allen) Subject: More on Crop Circles.. Date: 7 Jul 91 08:04:06 GMT Spotted this tonight on UseNet: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Article 745 of alt.alien.visitors: From: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan) Subject: Crop Circles in the UK Keywords: Latest from the UK Vigils Date: 5 Jul 91 14:33:57 GMT Sender: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk (Robert Trevelyan) Followup-To: Robert Trevelyan ( CCCS member ) Organization: IBM AIX Systems Support Centre, UK. Using banks of expensive camera and infra-red equipment to keep a 24-hr watch on a field below Morgan's Hill where a magnificent quadruple-ringed Circle and a Celtic Cross appeared respectively on June 1 and July 5 1990, a Team of crop watchers have witnessed something strange . In addition to the video equipment they have a powerful directional microphone which digitally records all sound in the range 2 to 20000 Hz, i.e. infra-sound, audible sound and some ultra-sound. The night of June 26/27 was cloudy and rainy and looked most unpromising. At about 3 a.m. some mist was in evidence and this appeared to be thickest right over the field being observed. It was decided to keep the cameras and infra-red gear running just in case it lifted and the directional microphone continued to record. At 5.45 a.m., an hour after dawn, the mist began to slowly clear. The pall of mist over the field under observation was the last to dissipate and, when it did, the cameramen could just see markings in the crop. They rushed down the hill to seal off entry to the field in which they could now see with binoculars a large dumb-bell pictogram. Close inspection showed no signs of human entry or footsteps in the wet soil at entry points to the field. A playback of the tapes from the directional microphone was found to be completely blank at all recorded frequencies. One of the cameramen who was first into the dumb-bell walked a long way along a tractor line to get to the the formation without damaging the standing crop. His trousers were soaked by the wet crop and his boots covered in mud. The circles were perfectly swirled with the plants bent but unbroken. There was no sign of foot-steps or muddy trampling in the circles. At 6 p.m the previous evening a military helicopter had flown across and hovered for a few minutes over the spot where the pictogram subsequently formed. Whether or not this was coincidental we have no way of telling. There are certainly rumours that the military have ways of detecting where and when Circles will form. Dr Meaden and his 19 Japanese scientists also encamped on Morgan's Hill were thought to have had that field under observation as well. But they are not saying what they made of this cosmic conjuring trick. Dr M only ever says "This entirely confirms my plasma vortex theory" whenever a new pictogram appears. He has on the hill some radar device, and we hear a rumour that this picked up some object the other night (not necessarliy the night of the 26/27th) which was definitely not an aircraft. The cry went up "It's a plasma vortex" and they all rushed to look for it. But nothing visible was seen. What Dr M calls a plasma vortex is what most other people call a UFO. This does not mean for a moment that it is necessarily a metallic spacecraft flown by aliens as the tabloid newspapers and Hollywood would have us believe. Nor for that that matter does calling it a plasma vortex mean that scientists have the slightest idea what it is or where it comes from. Meaden has never offered any equations, rotational velocities, or any credible explanation for how the mythical plasma vortex is formed. He might just as well call it a UFO like everyone else. No exact details of sizes of dimensions yet but I will be in-touch. Otherwise the latest crop circles seem to be dumbbells ,as a weight training dumbbell , with rings ,paths and circles attached .They look remarkably like insects as they have a paths leading from one of the circles at about 45 degrees with small circles at the end (antannae) . ----end of article------------------------------------------------------- Don -- Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Allen@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request DOMAIN infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to: DOMAIN ftp.uiowa.edu (directory /archives/paranet) ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************