Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 471 Thursday, September 5th 1991 Today's Topics: Hudson Valley Tape Re: ussr Re: How old are the 'greys'? Re: Epilepsy & Dogs Re: CATTLE MUTILATIONS Hi! Re: Hudson Valley Tape [3/3] Re: Hudson Valley Tape Re: Hudson Valley Tape [3/3] Re: Hudson Valley Tape Re: Hudson Valley Tape [3/3] VISIT/NASA Visit/nasa Re: VISIT/NASA Re: Hudson Valley Tape Re: ALIEN LIAISON Re: New UFO Titles! Re: UFO Conference in Orlando Re: Mysterious Roar Heard By Some... crop circles in Science ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Hudson Valley Tape Date: 3 Sep 91 04:54:00 GMT Hi Linda -- So, like, what did you think of the radio show? Did you ever get to hear it? Those turkeys had us come in at 9:30 and didn't put us on until 10:40. They'll be sending me a tape in case you missed it. I wanna ask you and Loren a favor. It relates to the correspondence I am having with one Maury Markowitz over on SCIENCE echo. I cross posted his last message onto ParaNet UFO, and we are all having a good laugh about it. Basically Maury and I have been going back and forth for a year and a half about the Hudson Valley video. If you haven't seen it, it depicts a circle of white lights followed by one blinking red one. The white lights appear to be rotating slowly in relation to the red one. There is no sound, save for the couple who filmed it bantering back and forth. I maintain that whatever it is, it can NOT be a formation of light aircraft. There are several dozen reasons for this, but all I need tell you at this point is that the ST (terminal summary) for that night showed winds at 10G28 (10 kts gusting to 28). There is not the slightest variation in the formation, no jockeying for position, etc. This is further borne out by another tape made by the same couple of a true formation of aircraft, which was an attempt by some anonymous pilots to show the locals that all they were seeing was a bunch of airplanes. In this tape, the engine noise and the variations in the formation are evident. Mr. Markowitz counters that not only can the "UFO" tape be a formation of planes, but that it DEFINITELY IS a formation of planes, and he even goes so far as to claim to be certain that it is a flight of 152's. (He originally said they were 182's, but he says his flying club buddies convinced him otherwise.) I am completely incredulous at this. I flat out refuse to believe that anyone can identify an aircraft type by looking at a fifth- or sixth- generation video of a bunch of white lights - which he says are the cockpit lights - against a completely black background. Maybe - just MAYBE - you could tell high-wing vs. low-wing. But this business of arguing whether they are 182's vs. 152's is an exercise in aviation hubris. I can barely tell the difference in DAYLIGHT, fer chrissakes! SO...what I had in mind was this. I want to challenge Mr. Markowitz to an old-fashioned scientific test, kinda like the ones the Amazing Randi was so adept at. I need some help devising exactly what I want to do, but it would be along the lines of taping several aircraft at night and asking him to identify them. All he will see will be their cabin lights. I think it should be done on a cloudy night, so that there is no background from which to judge size, speed, etc. (I am told that there IS a starry background in the HV video, but it is not evident from the copy I sent Maury). By way of posting this message publicly, I am asking other ParaNet users to help me devise the test. When we're ready to roll, I wondered if you guys might be interested in making arrangements with some local flying club to do the flights? Mr. Markowitz will no doubt counter that, how does he know that I will label the various sequences properly? and I'd like to have a ParaNet user certify that everything is on the up and up. "I was present at the taping and participated in the flight arrangements, and I hereby certify that sequence 2 is the 152" or whatever. While you're at it, I would like to arrange for a flying club to view the HV tape and tell me whether or not it could possibly be light aircraft in formation. (Which I suppose is the larger point of this whole exercise, anyway). Whaddya say? Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: ussr Date: 3 Sep 91 06:14:00 GMT In a message to Jim Speiser <08-30-91 14:40> Danny Brandenburg wrote: DB> >we came across some reliable reports that indicate the evidence DB> I must first ask your criteria for "reliable". Were the reports from DB> respected scientists? Were they from locals? Children? It is my understanding that there were several dozen reports from locals in that area that may have pre-dated the report that became famous via Tass, ie, the pinheaded beings reported by children. Its possible that this report was the result of local media exposure exciting the imaginations of children in the area. DB> DB> > sources include Antonio Huneeus and articles in UFO magazine. DB> Since I am new to this group I must ask about Antonio Huneeus. He is a highly respected UFO journalist in NYC, the son of a Chilean diplomat, who specializes in sighting reports from South America and overseas. He can be counted on to be level-headed in his reporting, to quote sources reliably, and to retract unhesitantly information which turns out to be false. DB> Who is he (sorry)? I would also like to know how articles in UFO DB> Magazine get there. I mean, are the articles submitted by anyone or DB> are their professional writers that are employed (no contracted) by DB> UFO Magazine? Also, what are the backgrounds of the writers (ie. DB> scientists, fiction writers, new agers, psychologists...)? DB> Just wanting some clarification, For that it is best to wait for a response from UFO Magazine itself, which I'm sure will be forthcoming on this echo shortly. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: Re: How old are the 'greys'? Date: 3 Sep 91 05:27:00 GMT nc>How old is the classic 'grey' description? nc> nc>I have in my posession a comic book dated April, 1967 (Flying Saucers, nc>#1 DELL). The aliens are depicted as being pale white, with large nc>heads, and large eyes. They are short in stature and look very much nc>like what we would call a 'grey'; too much to be a coincidence. The American Indians have stories of beings that fit the Dell description to a T. The Native American ledgends of these critters (which were always nasty prankster) a many hundreds of years old. Somewhere on my BBS there's a file called "WHEEL.ZIP" that describes the AmerInd ledgends of the "pranksters". Also, check out some of Vallee's books, especially Passport to Magonia. The parallels between present=day UFO lore and the ancient tales of Sylphs, Fawns, Leprechauns, Elementals and other creatures. The similarities are sometimes striking... Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: Re: Epilepsy & Dogs Date: 3 Sep 91 05:35:00 GMT SR>Tesla claimed that SR>CM>he could "hear" his EM radiation... SR> SR>'Ringing in the ears' is more likely the possibility. SR> Nyuk-nyuk-nyuk. Do you think the whole idea is ridiculous? Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: Re: CATTLE MUTILATIONS Date: 3 Sep 91 05:56:00 GMT TM> What gets to me about those cattle mutilations is the great care to do TM> it so quickly and efficiently. If satanists are the cause, as is TM> implied at times, why do they take such great care to drain every drop TM> of blood, to remove organs without significant mutilation of the rest TM> of the body. A mutilation done by satanists would (in my opinion) be TM> a lot more messy and crude. TM> I've heard & read some pretty wild explanations for Cattle Mutes, but the Satanist explanations are particularly absurd. One explanation involved three groups of Satanists equipped with a large helicopter, night-vision equipment, and state-of-the-art surgical equipment. The Satanists required the night vision equipment to locate the animal, the mobile surgical unit to mutilate it, and the helicopter to leave the carcass in a *tree*. Satanists are no more capable of setting up such an operation (M*S*S*H -- Mobile Satanist Surgical Hospital???) than they are of doing good works. Based on the sort of stuff that's been done in the name of Satan here, they'd allow the animal to suffer (*not* tranquilize it), butcher it in the crudest, most amateurish way (no lasers, sorry), and they'd take some measures to *hide* the carcass. Also, cows might conceivably be sacrificed by some screwy Zionist groups (although I've never heard of this being done -- their rabbis are still arguing over trying the right kind of red heifers to kill. At last report, they had sent a delegation to NORWAY to find the right red cows to slash & burn.) But "Satanists" seem partial to targets of opportunity: Dogs, cats, goats, sheep, small game, etc. They're most likely to use stray animals or neighbor's pets in my experience. Only one "satanist" group I'm aware of demanded a particuar type of animal sacrifice (German Shepards) and these people obtained their animals by answering newspaper ads, local pet shelters, and ultimately by infiltrating the local ASPCA. 4 what it's worth... -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: Hi! Date: 4 Sep 91 05:29:00 GMT Hi Peggy! Just a note to let you know that I'm back from the weekend, and got your messages. You've got full file access & some email waiting. Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Delton@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton) Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Tape [3/3] Date: 4 Sep 91 04:30:00 GMT RE: in other words it can't be explained No, I dont' see any other way to "explain" it either. It's the old catch-22, if you can't explain it then that somehow means you must accept someone else's explanation. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Delton@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Delton) Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Tape Date: 4 Sep 91 04:59:00 GMT RE: Cockpit lights It didn't hit me when I read it but what pilot in his right mind would be running at night in formation and turn on WHITE BRIGHT cockpit lights???? The last thing you would want at night in an airplane is to turn on anything but the dim intrument illumination lights lest you blind yourself to other aircraft. I don't even think a 152 has cockpit lights of the type that would provide that sort of illumination, I think is just has downward focussed spot lights likethe reading lights in commercial aircraft. I really dont think they would show up much on a video tape. -- Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Delton@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Tape [3/3] Date: 4 Sep 91 05:23:00 GMT In a message to Jim Speiser <09-03-91 21:30> Jim Delton wrote: JD> RE: in other words it can't be explained JD> No, I dont' see any other way to "explain" it either. It's the old JD> catch-22, if you can't explain it then that somehow means you must JD> accept someone else's explanation. That may well be the implication, but Maury seemed to be saying that the narrator was over-interpreting Hibbs' statement. I maintain that Hibbs was merely doing verbal gymnastics to try NOT to say that it was unexplained, when that is in fact what he meant. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Tape Date: 4 Sep 91 05:28:00 GMT Never having flown a 152 at night, I really couldn't say. Its been so long since I've flown, I can't even remember if it HAD an interior light. My instincts tell me you're right though, whatever it is would not be all that bright. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Tape [3/3] Date: 2 Sep 91 19:00:00 GMT > Did Mr. Markowitz view the same tape as I did??? How did he manage to > make out what any of the "planes" were going so far as identifing the > lead plane as a 182 and the rest as 152's (and not 150's !!)???? > He messages seemed to get more and more disjointed as he went on too. > As to the supposed absence of further HV UFO reports after the FAA > warned to pilots to stop - I didn't think there had been a cessation of > further reports?? He may be right in his criticism of the lack of > followup and/or good documentation of just exactly what JPL did and > didn't do in the way of analysis and written reports. The lack of > written reports from the "experts" seems common unfortunately with far > too many "facts" and analysis seemingly being mostly word of mouth and > off the cuff stuff. Markowitz is disjointed. I have had discussions with him and got nowhere. Something that is not going to happen with a guy like him either. It is like a Phil Klass incarnate. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: EBay.Sun.COM!Michael.Miller Subject: VISIT/NASA Date: 4 Sep 91 17:03:59 GMT From: Michael.Miller@EBay.Sun.COM (Michael Miller - Rev. Admin.) A while back I posted a question about VISIT and didn't get much response. So I thought I would give a little information I have on it and then drop the subject. So if anyone should come across it again, maybe they will pick up some more information about it. VISIT (Vehicle Internal Systems Investigation Team) is a branch of research being done by NASA to discover the motive power of UFO's. They hypnotize abductees and question them about the technical aspects of the ships they were in, etc. Through these sources NASA is gaining an understanding of how these UFO's work. This is basically what VISIT is and what it does. If anyone else has heard of anything, I would be interested to hear what you have. -mdm -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Visit/nasa Date: 4 Sep 91 21:24:00 GMT > From: EBay.Sun.COM!Michael.Miller > Date: 4 Sep 91 17:03:59 GMT > Message-ID: <14368@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM> > Newsgroups: info.paranet > > From: Michael.Miller@EBay.Sun.COM (Michael Miller - Rev. Admin.) I am checking on this through a NASA source. I will post the results. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: Re: VISIT/NASA Date: 5 Sep 91 04:52:00 GMT nc>A while back I posted a question about VISIT and didn't get much response. nc> Hi Michael. Forgive us -- I haven't heard of VISIT and chose not to advertise my ignorance. Sorry. nc>VISIT (Vehicle Internal Systems Investigation Team) is a branch of research nc>being done by NASA to discover the motive power of UFO's. They hypnotize nc>abductees and question them about the technical aspects of the ships they nc>were in, etc. Through these sources NASA is gaining an understanding of how nc>these UFO's work. nc> Okay, now you can be assured that you have everyone's attention. Do you know: 1) Is NASA *actually* conducting these sessions with abductees? Or do the abductees simply *believe* that they're dealing with NASA? 2) Is NASA working with any acknowledged abduction researchers in this work? 3) Does NASA find abductees through these researchers? Or are the abductees contacted *independently* of any abduction researcher? (In other words, is NASA getting help from abduction experts, or is "NASA" monitoring their phone conversations & contacting their subjects independently? 4) How long has NASA been in the UFO-building business? Alternatively, how long has the "UFO-building business" been associated with NASA? 5) Since NASA can't find the money to redesign the Space Station (and Congress won't appropriate it), where do they get the funds to pursue this project? Or is it just an UnFunded Opportunity? 6) Who *funds* these UnFunded Opportunities, anyway? Feel free to answer any, all, or none of the above. Have you read Blum's book Out There? He makes direct reference to NASA fronts for "other" activities. Thank you for a very interesting contribution! Can you tell us anything about where you heard this from? Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Tape Date: 5 Sep 91 05:40:00 GMT Hi Jim, Have captured your message to show to Loren. Getting late now, so will try to do it tomorrow. I read all that banter written by Maury and he sounded like a jerk to me! How indeed could he know all that? There are only 2 planes that I was able to identify by the sound of their engines: (1) a Skymaster which was a twin-engine with the engines in tandum, and (2) a Baron, because their engines sounded so obnoxious!! And, Jim Delton is right--pilots do not turn on white cabin lights as it can cause night blindness and disorientation. I'll be at Beckley's UFO/New Age whooppeee-do on Sunday afternoon to catch the 2-5 o'clock speakers (thought for a sec they were on Saturday, so guess I won't see you after all...) Maybe I can see ya Monday at E.V. Linda -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: ALIEN LIAISON Date: 5 Sep 91 05:45:00 GMT Hi Pete, I'll have to send you all 3 articles. The one from MUFON isn't complete until you have seen the other 2. (Actually, one is just a one-page blurb from the l989 Proceedings from MUFON; the other is a lengthy article on Big Bob from UFO Universe Magazine.) Look for a snail... -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: New UFO Titles! Date: 5 Sep 91 05:49:00 GMT Hi Paul, No problem aaabout waiting to see if "Magonia" is available. And I understand that you have to ask for postage.... I'm in no hurry (back at work again, teaching) so time is limited.{ I'm a patient person. Thanks a lot! Linda PS. Didn't need those other books at this time. -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: UFO Conference in Orlando Date: 5 Sep 91 05:55:00 GMT Hi John, Well, this weekend features a big UFO conference here. I could not get excited by the speakers for the most part. They put a woo-woo New Age speaker on with a serious researcher. How stupid! Who wants to see Max the Crystal Skull along with Larry Warren of Bentwaters fame??? I finally decided to go to the Sunday afternoon forum. It was the best I could do, and I will report back next week on my findings. Regards, Linda -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: acodkris.larc.nasa.gov!MITCHELL Subject: Re: Mysterious Roar Heard By Some... Date: 5 Sep 91 13:36:21 GMT From: MITCHELL@ACODKRIS.LARC.NASA.GOV John Hicks posted: + Also note that the two small swirled circles found in Shoreline Park in Gulf +Breeze were found the day after a 'skyquake.' What they're calling a skyquake +is a 10-15 sec. very low rumble that rattles doors etc, but there's no seismic +trace, and no one acknowledges flying supersonic anywhere nearby. + I experienced two back in the early '80s when I lived about 200 miles east of +Pensacola. Rather eerie. The ground doesn't shake, but walls, doors, windows +etc. do. I don't claim to have any answers, but I know that high-performance aircraft can generate that kind of phenomenon without actually flying. At Langley AFB in Hampton, VA, there are approximately 1/2 a zillion F-15's based. To test the installed and uninstalled engines, a 'hush house' is used. This is a small hangar-type building with a long tube out of one side for the exhaust. The tube (several feet in diameter) ends in a 45-degree ramp, that deflects the jet exhaust up and away from the immediate surroundings. While the *exhaust* is deflected, the forces on the deflector set up large- amplitude, low-frequency vibrations that aren't deflected and can be felt for miles. There have been several occassions where people in the community have ] reported rattling walls and windows, and things falling off of shelves because of these vibrations. I'm not saying that this is what causes the mysterious roars, but it seems that something like this could be responsible. Kerry Mitchell mitchell@acodkris.larc.nasa.gov - or - mitchell@acodvax.larc.nasa.gov -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: violet.berkeley.edu!chalmers Subject: crop circles in Science Date: 5 Sep 91 13:36:34 GMT From: chalmers@violet.berkeley.edu (John H. Chalmers Jr.) There is a two page article on British crop circles in the News and Comments section of the August 30, 1991 issue of Science, the journal of the AAAS. The article sympathetically discusses the theories and investigations of Terence Meaden on atmospheric vortices and the plasma fireball theories of Yoshihiko Ohtsuki form Waseda University near Tokyo. Also mentioned is Ohtsuki's article about miniature fireballs in the March 14, 1991 issue of Nature. I stress this is not a research paper but rather scientific reportage. It is, however, even-handed and well-balanced and gives the names of other scientists who both support and challenge these investigators. Meaden himself acknowledges that many circles are apparently hoaxes, but he has investigated around 1000 circles in Britain. There are two pictures of circles (one with Meaden inside) and a diagram of a 1986 Minnesota tornado that appears to have created a vortex ring of some sort. The relationship to the circles is not made clear, however This issue also has an original research paper on the possible differences of the brains of heterosexual men and both women and homosexual men. The N&C section has a longish discussion of this topic as well. There is also a note about the National Academy of Sciences' plans to study the relation between electromagnetic fields (EMF) and cancer. Other items of interest include a successful test of a crucial part of modern evolutionary theory, and an editorial on how badly written laws and regulations have crippled environmental cleanup, wasting about 40% of the money so far on legal fees. --- John ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request DOMAIN infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to: DOMAIN ftp.uiowa.edu (directory /archives/paranet) ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************