Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 479 Sunday, September 22nd 1991 Today's Topics: crop circle hoax: a hoax in itself? Discovery hoax Re: HVUFO Round 4 [2/6] Kansas disappearances Re: crop circle hoax: a hoax in itself? Re: Upcoming Shows Re: iv!!! Project VISIT Re: Hudson Valley Tape Tesla & Hungarian Re: Exasperated over HV Leslie Watkins/alternative Iii Op Circle Rmn #3 Re: Iv!!! HVUFO Round 4 [2/6] Kansas disappearances Bentwaters Re: Project VISIT and rumours? Re: Bentwater,Uk On Unsolved Mysteries Re: Bentwater,Uk On Unsolved Mysteries Re: ogden object Re: Bentwater,Uk On Unsolved Mysteries Re: UFO Conference in Orl Implants Implants ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: vanth!jms Subject: crop circle hoax: a hoax in itself? Date: 20 Sep 91 07:36:43 GMT From: vanth!jms@amix.commodore.com (Jim Shaffer) To: John Hicks + To get a little stranger, an article from the NYT News wire quoted *David* +Delgado, whoever that might be. Could've sworn I saw Pat Delgado on CNN, so I +assume an error in the wire story, but who knows. The AP article definitely said Patrick Delgado, and I'm pretty sure the ABC story did also. (Although he was giving a different story in each one.) I haven't heard of a David Delgado either. -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | I'm in a groove now Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | -- or is it a rut? 37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@amix.commodore.com | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, 'Face Up') -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: vanth!jms Subject: Discovery hoax Date: 20 Sep 91 07:36:56 GMT From: vanth!jms@amix.commodore.com (Jim Shaffer) To: Michael Corbin +This may have been the big thing with Bob Oeschler a while back with the +Discovery space shuttle where Blaha said, 'Houston, we have the alien +spacecraft under observance.' Although it sounded very good, no one could +confirm nor deny that it was Blaha's voice on that tape. That has never +really gone any further. NASA denied the whole thing. I heard an explanation a few months later, from someone on Compuserve I think. Apparently the shuttle downlink is rebroadcast from Goddard for the amateur radio community, and someone in the area simply transmitted on the same frequency. Unfortunately my memory is fuzzy on whether this was *the* explanation or just *an* explanation. Does anyone have anything definitive? -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | I'm in a groove now Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | -- or is it a rut? 37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@amix.commodore.com | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, 'Face Up') -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: vanth!jms Subject: Re: HVUFO Round 4 [2/6] Date: 20 Sep 91 07:37:08 GMT From: vanth!jms@amix.commodore.com (Jim Shaffer) To: Jim Speiser Maury Markowitz says: + Right at the start, I got into a conversation about the Gulf Stream UFO +stories with another echo member. I was interested that this story seemed to +be so close to the Hudson Valley UFO stories in some ways. Soon after, Jim Jim, Any idea what Maury thought similar between the Gulf 'Stream' :-) and Hudson Valley cases? -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | I'm in a groove now Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | -- or is it a rut? 37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@amix.commodore.com | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, 'Face Up') -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: vanth!jms Subject: Kansas disappearances Date: 20 Sep 91 07:37:20 GMT From: vanth!jms@amix.commodore.com (Jim Shaffer) Can anyone fill me in on the disappearance of two women and two daughters of one of them in Russel County, Kansas? The only thing I've heard so far (just minutes ago on NBC) is that they were 'studying' UFOs and rumors are rampant that the aliens have snatched them. The authorities aren't happy about all the fuss and say that they've recently gotten some solid leads but it's a bizarre case. My gut feeling is that when the truth is known it'll probably be a Messianic cult like the GB-6, but I'd be a lot more comfortable with better information. -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | I'm in a groove now Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | -- or is it a rut? 37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@amix.commodore.com | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, 'Face Up') -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: vanth!jms Subject: Re: crop circle hoax: a hoax in itself? Date: 20 Sep 91 07:37:32 GMT From: vanth!jms@amix.commodore.com (Jim Shaffer) To: Linda Bird +You asked 'what other bothersome individual, loosely connected with the +UFO phenomenon does this remind you of?' + +Ed Walters? Good, but I was thinking more of Carlos Allende getting upset with Brad Steiger and marching in to APRO to confess. (Of course, this means that if the two British gentlemen *really* want to have fun, they'll retract their confession!) -- * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | I'm in a groove now Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!amix!vanth!jms | -- or is it a rut? 37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@amix.commodore.com | Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, 'Face Up') -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: Upcoming Shows Date: 19 Sep 91 13:37:00 GMT In a message to Jim Speiser <09-15-91 21:56> Danny Brandenburg wrote: DB> I only caught part two of the Ron Reagan special. It was a pretty DB> good program. Was it me or did ol' Ron seem to be in slight favor of DB> the UFO community? It looked as if he would not recognize what Phil DB> had to say. Being against Phil Klass does not automatically equate with support of the UFO community. I think he thought they were ALL a bunch of dweebs. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: iv!!! Date: 20 Sep 91 01:36:00 GMT Hi Peggy, Still running around in circles!! No instructional aide at school and it's a zoo! Got your tape, and will try to listen to it in the car! <:-) Do me a favor if you can: when you get the photo-copy of the "Ogden Object," will you please photo-copy a copy of it for me?? Then I can have it to compare with my drawing. A million thanks! Linda -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul.Faeder@f70.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Paul Faeder) Subject: Project VISIT Date: 19 Sep 91 04:21:07 GMT > To find out the truth about Project VISIT one must > look no further than page 14 of the 1980 MUFON > Symposium Proceedings. This is what you will find: This is from the book The UFO Encyclopedia by Margaret Sachs, copyright 1980 (just FYI): PROJECT VISIT (VEHICLE INTERNAL SYSTEMS INVESTIGATIVE TEAM) The purpose of this research organization is to evaluate engineering, medical and physiological data obtained by abductees while restrained aboard UFOs. Since many UFO witnesses describe irregular motions and hovering characteristics, the group thinks that the "F" in UFO may be inappropriate. It therefore refers to such objects as USV's or Unidentified Space Vehicles. It is Projects Visit's hope that through the review of a number of abduction cases, carried out with the cooperation of psychologist R. Leo Sprinkle, characteristic USV systems will be identified. The organization has determined that there are distinct correlations numerous abduction cases. However, it believes that much information which should be acquired during an investigation is not being sought by the investigators. This nonprofit organization was founded in 1976 by John Schuessler, who serves as President; Gravil Pennington, who serves as Vice-President; Alan Holt, who serves as Secretary; and Dave Kissinger, who serves as Treasurer. Consultants, most of whom posess doctorates, serve in an advisory capacity. The group has nine members. Membership in VISIT is by invitation of one of the Directors or Officers of the corporation. Although not a popular membership organization, VISIT's objective is to interchange information with the general public, educational institutions, government agencies, doctors, scientists, responsible UFO organizations, the news media and other specialized experts. The interchange is accomplished through letters, semimonthly public meetings, articles in scientific journals, magazines and newspapers, participation in symposia, television and radio presentations and other similar activities. Their address: PO Box 877, Friendswood, Texas 77564 (but remember that this is from circa 1980) -- Paul Faeder - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Paul.Faeder@f70.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: Re: Hudson Valley Tape Date: 18 Sep 91 18:32:01 GMT MS> That would be a really stupid thing to do unless you were MS> rated for IFR. If you turn on the lights inside the MS> cockpit, you can't see outside. Yep, that's just the point. jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: Tesla & Hungarian Date: 19 Sep 91 04:10:00 GMT > Without addressing the issue of Teslas supposed medium, I > would point > out that in Europe, borders around many countries > (including Hungary) > were somewhat unstable and that it was not uncommon for > people in those > European countries to speak more than one language. For > some reason, > Hungarian was a popular second language in those areas. > --- Actually, according to Man Out of Time (Margaret Cheney's superb biography of Nicola Tesla), the Hungarian-speaking Tesla wouldn't be at all far-fetched. Tesla was without question an excellent linguist, although (uncharacteristically) he didn't think enough of his accomplishments to boast about them. Tesla was Serbian, but was born and raised in Smiljan, Croatia, near the Dalmnation coast (just across the Adriatic from Northern Italy). As such, he undoubtedly grew up speaking both Serbian and Croatian, and he later added both German and Hungarian (befitting an educated citizen of the old Austro-Hungarian empire). It has been recorded by many of his boyhood acquaintances in Smiljan that he delighted in reciting poetry in English, French, German and Italian. In later life he impressed associates and financial backers on three continents with his multilingual poetry recitals. But like most christians in the Balkans (Tesla's father was a minister), he looked primarily to Budapest, the eastern capital of the Austro-Hungarian empire of the Hapsburgs. (The almost equally numerous Moslems of the Balkans looked to Istambul and Turkey -- *outside* the empire). He attended the Central Polytechnic School in Graz, Austria (the syllabus was in German). While there as an undergraduate, he read the *entire* works of Voltaire in French. (Recall that Voltaire wrote entire encyclopedias while a prisoner of the Bourbons). Tesla's first job was as an electrical engineer at the Royal Central Telegraph Office in Budapest. He was walking in the city park, conversing in Hungarian with his friend Szigty and reciting Goethe's Faust (from memory, in German) when he had his famous vision of a polyphase AC generator. So -- Tesla speaking in Hungarian thru a medium? No problem. Personally I think he could probably speak in any language he had any interest in learning. Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: Exasperated over HV Date: 20 Sep 91 13:36:00 GMT Where have YOU been? You're absolutely right, Gerry, and that issue will be handled in my next post to Mr. Markowitz. I believe the discussion has gone on long enough, and has served its purpose. He seems to be sufficiently embarrassed as to be feigning a lack of interest in the subject (a sure sign). I notice that none of the bigwigs in the echo (with whom he attempted to curry favor) have jumped to his defense. Now's my chance.... Now be a good boy and netmail me your new phone number! Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan) Subject: Leslie Watkins/alternative Iii Date: 20 Sep 91 22:17:00 GMT Hi Jim, Thanks for the info about Amon. Sorry my message was so garbled, but I'm glad you were able to decipher enough to make sense of the question! I'll check a more current map. Thanks, again. ==Peggy== -- Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan) Subject: Op Circle Rmn #3 Date: 20 Sep 91 22:20:00 GMT Mike, That's great news! I'm glad the clips were of some interest and I'll be eager to see what comes next now that Kit and Tere will be joining you! ==Peggy== -- Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Peggy Noonan) Subject: Re: Iv!!! Date: 20 Sep 91 22:22:00 GMT >Do me a favor if you can: when you get the photo-copy of the >"Ogden Object," will you please photo-copy a copy of it for >me?? Then I can have it to compare with my drawing. > No problem, Linda. I've already made some extra photocopies and will put one into an envelope for you today. Thanks again for sending them! ==Peggy== -- Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Peggy.Noonan@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: HVUFO Round 4 [2/6] Date: 20 Sep 91 19:45:00 GMT > From: vanth!jms@amix.commodore.com (Jim Shaffer) > To: Jim Speiser > Maury Markowitz says: > + Right at the start, I got into a conversation about the Gulf Stream > UFO > +stories with another echo member. I was interested that this story > seemed to > +be so close to the Hudson Valley UFO stories in some ways. Soon after, > Jim > Jim, > Any idea what Maury thought similar between the Gulf 'Stream' :-) and > Hudson Valley cases? Looking back, I can't remember. I think it was just the multiple sightings aspect. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Kansas disappearances Date: 20 Sep 91 19:46:00 GMT > From: vanth!jms@amix.commodore.com (Jim Shaffer) > Can anyone fill me in on the disappearance of two women and two > daughters > of one of them in Russel County, Kansas? The only thing I've heard so > far > (just minutes ago on NBC) is that they were 'studying' UFOs and rumors > are > rampant that the aliens have snatched them. The authorities aren't > happy > about all the fuss and say that they've recently gotten some solid leads > but it's a bizarre case. My gut feeling is that when the truth is known > it'll probably be a Messianic cult like the GB-6, but I'd be a lot more > comfortable with better information. Russell, Kansas? Isn't that where our old friend, Scott Corder, hails from? I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he is involved.... Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f37.n114.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Bentwaters Date: 21 Sep 91 06:33:00 GMT Anyone have any comments or questions on the Bentwaters segment of last week's Unsolved Mysteries? John Burroughs has agreed to answer your questions through me. Sort of a Group Q&A like we did with Budd Hopkins a couple of years back. Fire away! Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: Re: Project VISIT and rumours? Date: 20 Sep 91 20:02:00 GMT Hi Michael -- as to this... nc>If this is the type of rude and asinine behavior anyone can nc>expect from nc>this alias, then I am on the wrong alias. nc> Please don't be discouraged. This is a public forum, but you may depend on the fact that there are people here who don't dismiss information like yours out of hand. Very much the contrary. I hope you succeed in tracking down the folks with more information on the VISIT project -- and I hope you're able to share some of what you discover with us. Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f4.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Re: Bentwater,Uk On Unsolved Mysteries Date: 21 Sep 91 23:48:00 GMT * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors" * Originally from Jack Sinclair * Originally dated 09-20-91 17:52 From: jsinclai@descartes.waterloo.edu (Jack Sinclair) Date: 20 Sep 91 15:18:39 GMT Organization: University of Waterloo Message-ID: <1991Sep20.151839.2829@descartes.waterloo.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors In article <91262.133541SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> Scott the Great writes: >Many discrepancies... One of the biggest was something I saw presented on >HBO many years ago. Colonel Halt's tape was played and the light from the >nearby lighthouse was displayed at the same time. It was clear that his >observations of lights in the sky basically corresponded EXACTLY with the >period of the lighthouse. Weren't they also claiming that they were What is 'EXACTLY' ? >taken on board to repair the ship previously? Anyone out there remember >the full body of evidence against this case. The one debunker they had >on there was either paraphrased improperly (most likely) or just had >no personality. > > >Scott The debunker on the show shifted his eyes so fast, and so often, I kept wondering what he was trying to hide from us. All his body language said was 'do not believe me'. As for the lighthouse explanation: how could these people, having worked at this place countless times before, suddenly see a lighthouse beam as an alien device, and yet never again (except for the two other episodes)? Jack. -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Re: Bentwater,Uk On Unsolved Mysteries Date: 21 Sep 91 23:54:00 GMT * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors" * Originally from Michael Mcnulty * Originally dated 09-21-91 12:03 From: mcn@apollo.hp.com (Michael McNulty) Date: 20 Sep 91 21:07:26 GMT Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA Message-ID: <1991Sep20.210726.25285@apollo.hp.com> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Having just finished watching the "Unsolved Mysteries" segment about the Bentwater case, I have a couple of comments and a couple of questions. I though that the presentation of the case was extremely poorly done. I'm not saying that the case isn't valid; I'm saying that the show presented it badly. They took 20 minutes to show what could have been shown in 5 minutes. I had a feeling that maybe they had bought new special effects' machines for this season, so they had to use them. I can't stand "dramatic re-enactments" anyway, and this was a good example of why. I thought that the soldiers and Col. Halt were good in their interviews. Why "re-enact" what they can tell you? I think that their testimony was much more dramatic than the staged stuff. Anyway, the poor quality of the show raised these questions for me: The Colonel mentioned that he brought a photographer out with him. What happned to him? Did he take any pictures? Did they come out? The guy with the Geiger counter (or whatever it was) was all over the place measuring everything, but only once could you hear him say anything about getting high readings. Were all of the other readings (the landing circles that made up a triangle, the trees, etc.) all normal? The show made a big deal about them coming upon a farm house while they were tracking the light. The house was described as glowing, as though it were on fire inside. The narrator seemed to indiacte that the soldiers were surprsied that they had come upon this house. How could soldiers on a base not know what was in the immediate vicinity of their camp? It wasn't a tiny lean-to or shack. It was shown as a two-story house. Also, why was there no mention of anyone exploring the house? Did they? Did anyone go in? Who lives there? What became of this? I can't imagine that nobody checked it out. Like I said, the show ended up annoying me by raising these questions and then not bothering to follow up on them. Do any of you know the answers to any of these questions? Thanks a lot, Mike -- Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Graham@f13.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Graham) Subject: Re: ogden object Date: 21 Sep 91 17:14:15 GMT In a message sent 18:36: 19 Sep 91, Linda Bird wrote to Peggy Noonan: LB> Do me a favor if you can: when you get the photo-copy LB> of the "Ogden LB> Object," will you please photo-copy a copy of it for LB> me?? Then I can LB> have it to compare with my drawing. Hello Linda. You say that you have a "drawing" of this? I too would like to see a "drawing" and a "photocopy" of the Ogden doodads. I'll gladly send postage and copy fees. Regards, Jim Graham The Portal Dolmen BBS (812)334-0418 ) -- Jim Graham - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Graham@f13.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: Bentwater,Uk On Unsolved Mysteries Date: 22 Sep 91 06:44:00 GMT Hi, Mike... Are you able to cross-post to that newsgroup? If so.... MC> >Many discrepancies... One of the biggest was something I saw MC> presented on MC> >HBO many years ago. Colonel Halt's tape was played and the light MC> from the MC> >nearby lighthouse was displayed at the same time. It was clear that MC> his MC> >observations of lights in the sky basically corresponded EXACTLY MC> with the MC> >period of the lighthouse. It did so for the first two rotations, after that there was no correlation. You're talking about people who had seen the lighthouse on many occasions. There were at least a dozen people present, SOMEONE would have said, hey, that's just the Orford Lighthouse. Then there's the problem of the object moving, not just appearing to make small movements, but actually making gross changes in location. The lighthouse theory is dead. Sorry. MC> >taken on board to repair the ship previously? An apocryphal story, told only by one airman who may not even have been present. That part was left out on purpose, because the producers felt it did not represent the concensus of statements as to what happened. MC> >the full body of evidence against this case. The one debunker they MC> had MC> >on there was either paraphrased improperly (most likely) or just had MC> >no personality. Based on what he told me prior to the show, Maj. McGaha was apparently heavily edited, I must admit. His interview actually lasted three hours, and he did mention some salient points that need addressing. However, nobody put words in his mouth, and he did actually say, "What they saw the first night was unquestionably a bright bolide or meteor." Meteors don't show up on radar, don't move upwards, and don't leave landing traces. MC> The debunker on the show shifted his eyes so fast, and so often, I MC> kept MC> wondering what he was trying to hide from us. I know Maj. McGaha, that's simply a nervous habit. He does it even when showing off his stereo equipment - something he LOVES to be open about! I wouldn't read anything into that. It's hard to defend a debunker, but let's be fair and confine ourselves to the issues. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tyson.Mitchiner@p0.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tyson Mitchiner) Subject: Re: UFO Conference in Orl Date: 18 Sep 91 10:30:35 GMT LB> Hi Tyson, LB> LB> See my response to Jim Speiser about Sunday's "BeckleyCon" that I went LB> to. Thanks! Ok.. I saw your message about that guy. I know quite some intelligent and thought-provoking people on the New_Age_Echo, and I wanted to make sure you weren't associating anyone linked to the New_Age as "woo-woo" without valid basis. Tyson >From an explorer........ -- Tyson Mitchiner - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Tyson.Mitchiner@p0.f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield) Subject: Implants Date: 21 Sep 91 23:49:00 GMT Jim, the woman involved suggests that the aliens may have recovered the implant. However, an independent dentist who looked at all the x-rays for me believes that the original dentist's interpretation was simply incorrect. I hope to fully document this story in my article for the IUR. In short, don't hold your breath that this is THE proof. -- Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield) Subject: Implants Date: 22 Sep 91 16:53:00 GMT Recently while Jerry Clarke was attending the Sydney International UFO seminar, I raised the question with him, "When did implant stories start?" One of the first references I can find in the 1980's is in the Bennewitz saga. At one stage Bennewitz and Dr Leo Sprinkle regressed a woman abductee. Amongst other things, what emerged from this woman was that the aliens were surgically implanting mind control devices into her skull to track her and use her as a "remote control." (Sources: Clark, J. UFOs in the 1980's.Detroit. Apogee. 1990. p88-89. Blum, H. Out There. pp230-231.) Now, we are told that much of what Bennewitz believed was part of a USAF disinformation campaign. So, does the implant section of the abduction phenomenon originate from disinformation? I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts, ideas, more factual information etc on this matter. -- Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to: UUCP {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara-request DOMAIN infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to: DOMAIN ftp.uiowa.edu (directory /archives/paranet) ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************