Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 490 Wednesday, October 16th 1991 Today's Topics: Linda Howe Doumentary Re: Goodies Re: ogden object Re: Did you get my message Re: Belgium Re: BENTWATER,UK ON UNSOLVED MYSTE BITNET skeptics 'fantasy-susceptibility and...' Erol Torun/DMA Re: WEIRD NIGHT ON HALLOWEEN Re: BENTWATER,UK ON UNSOLVED MYSTE Re: BALL LIGHTNING Re: Micap Re: Micap Re: Dr. Fredrick Bell ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ncar!hpvclmd.vcd.hp.com!miked Subject: Linda Howe Doumentary Date: 14 Oct 91 19:38:36 GMT From: Mike Dobbs The FOX network will air Linda Moulton Howes new documentary this Friday night (Oct 18) at 9:00 EDT/PDT. It is called: The UFO Report: Sightings. It will last one hour. -------- Mike Dobbs / Internet: miked@vcd.hp.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: Goodies Date: 15 Oct 91 03:39:00 GMT Hi Keith, I'm so glad my things got to you safe and sound. I'm looking forward to what you are sending, and will share it with interested people here "on top." Regarding Strieber, I wonder if he really was abducted or just thought he was (fantasy). Or if he was stressed out, then abducted because of the stress. I take it you think he is more fantasy-prone. (You might know of our hearing in the U.S, Senate with a Supreme Court nominee - Clarence Thomas? And how he is being accused of sexual harrassment? There is a lot of speculation that his lady accuser is fantasy-prone.) Intersting theories. I'll post again when I get your articles. Thanks so much and I look forward to seeing them. Best, Linda -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: ogden object Date: 15 Oct 91 04:04:00 GMT Hi Jim, Glad you got my drawings of the Ogden Object. One of the posters on this BBS, Curtiss Hahn, offered to have his multi-languaged father-in-law try to decipher the writing on the O.O. That gentleman, was able to read individual letters (for example, gljs) but said there did not appear to be actual words or any type of message in that writing sample I sent.{ Thus, it is "gibberish." Which is what my messages are looking like tonight with all this line noise!! I'm having to clean up the lines every few minutes... See ya, Linda -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: Did you get my message Date: 15 Oct 91 04:40:00 GMT Hi! Just copied your address, and will get out some articles to you this week. I'll include my address on the envelope. Anything you wish to send will be gladly received, and I'll share it. Many thanks, Linda -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: Belgium Date: 15 Oct 91 04:54:00 GMT Hi Jim, In spite of Loren's being a skeptic, he is fluent in German, and I'm sure will help with any translating here in Arizona. That MAY be how we'll hook him on our side!! <:-) Linda -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@f8.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: Re: BENTWATER,UK ON UNSOLVED MYSTE Date: 14 Oct 91 11:50:00 GMT PP>Time delay, and shadow distortion? Very difficult because PP>time is universal. Yes, absolutely, Pete! Let's assume that time is universal -- I'll even give you Hawking's proofs in his superstring theories that time's arrow is real (e.g.: time can only go in one direction: into the future). But is time a universal *constant*? Is its rate of change (progress) the same everywhere in the universe? What proofs do we have for this assumption? Following onto this, if time is *not* a universal constant, how granular can "time-flow zones" be? (E.g.: Does the Andromeda galaxy go "faster" than ours? Does the center of our own galaxy go slower than we do? Could "different time" be confined to an area as small as a star system? A planet? A moon? A city block? Your basement?) People used to think that "constant time" was the case: They would point to rates of radioactive decay and other physical processes as proof that time's rate of progress is universal. But Quantum work has completely confounded these assumptions. Instead of time (and the physical processes) progressing at a regular, predictable pace, things seem to happen more on a probability basis. In fact, Zeno's paradox seems to apply in many cases (unless someone's looking, in which case things happen on schedule). Could it be that Zeno drives a starship? Or at least makes them work?? Could it be that the secret of interdimensional travel is for everyone to look the other way?? :-) 'Way back when I was in High School and taking A.P. Physics [and Einstein had just published his Theory of Special Relativity :-) ] I remember thinking how odd it was that time was a constant in the equations. Einstein had assumed that he had proven that lightspeed (c) could not be exceeded. In my ignorance, it seemed to me that a variable rate of *time* could account for faster-than-light (FTL) travel. Such a variation in time-flow could also possibly reconcile FTL travel with the inevitable time-distortion effects (e.g.: true FTL travel would allow people to fly away and come back before they left!!!) I'm ill-equipped to flesh out this proposition, let alone offer proofs, but I'm still asking why *not*??? Moreover, if "the fundamental rules" don't apply / as time goes by " could this have implications for *other* so-called universal constants? Like gravity? Just wondering... Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f8.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ncar!ASTRO.dnet.ge.com!CARR Subject: BITNET skeptics Date: 15 Oct 91 18:31:46 GMT From: Paul Carr A CONCISE INTRODUCTION TO BITNET SKEPTIC DISCUSSION GROUP (LISTSERV) By Gary Stone, INTERNET: 74435.1756@Compuserve.com (With Apologies to Computer Scientists Everywhere) 23 Mar 91 The SKEPTIC Discussion Group is an automated exchange of email moderated by Norman R. Gall, Dept. of Philosophy, York University, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. He describes it as 'a discussion group designed for philosphers, psychologists, natural and biological scientists, writers, etc. to take a 'skeptical' and scientifically informed look at claims of the paranormal, etc. i.e., Creationism, Health Fraud, Witchcraft, crypto-zoology, Anything that might appear in _The Skeptical Inquirer_ is fair game.' 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To discontinue your subscription at any time, send an email to LISTSERV%YORKVM1 with this text on the first line: SIGNOFF SKEPTIC To sign off from ALL such topics netwide use: SIGNOFF * NOTE: COMMANDS are sent to LISTSERV%YORKVM1 ... MESSAGES are sent to SKEPTIC%YORKVM1 ... To learn more about SKEPTIC or the other topics handled by LISTSERV, (beore or after you subscribe) send EMAIL to: LISTSERV%YORKVM1 ... with Any ONE of these commands on the first line INFO ? For a complete list of available documentation LIST SHORT Brief Description of All LISTSERV TOPICS REVIEW SKEPTIC Profile and members of LISTSERV SKEPTIC STATS SKEPTIC Your Personal Distribution Options (subscribers) INDEX SKEPTIC To see a list of archived messages GET {filename} Have an archive file sent to you {don't type brackets} -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@p1.f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: 'fantasy-susceptibility and...' Date: 15 Oct 91 21:44:00 GMT nc> Well, what about 'fantasy-prone' people that don't see UFO's? I nc> think I might be 'fantasy-prone,' and I do like to think I have nc> an overactive imagination, but I've seen nothing, have no mysterious nc> gaps in my memory (except for some parts of high school, but that nc> has a more mundane explanation :-), ... Hi Phil. I think you're right about this. Fantasy-proneness and imagination are too different things entirely, in my opinion. Imagination is just that: imagination. An imaginative person is *always* aware that his/her imaginings are just that. A fantasy-prone person is *unable* to make that distinction. In fact, with a few exceptions, fantasies tend to be *much* less inventive than active imaginings, don't you think? In fact, actual fantasies (where the person has no control over the fantasies) often develop a boring "sameness" as the delusion spreads. I mean, LOOK at all the people who claim to have grown up in Satanic cults, where they were *forced* to become "breeders", etc., etc. It's almost like these sad types infect one another with almost identical delusions (and I believe that virtually all of the "Satanist" maunderings are wholly delusional). But these people pick these little scenarios up from one another almost by osmosis, as if they were giving each other the flu. 'Way back in the 1880s and 1890s -- before Freud reinvented the whole field and cloaked it with a veneer of opportunism and greed -- psychiatrists were always MDs, and they were often called "alienists". I.e.: They tried to sort out the ravings and pronouncements of people who were "alienated" from life's mainstream. Maybe it's time to revive the term "alienist", at least for our own specialized field? :-) Freud, of course, repackaged classical mythology into a rubric designed for agnostics -- then he dropped the price tag and encouraged twice-weekly visits, to build a volume business. Add a few (completely false) claims that he could cure schizophrenia, and he was in business! Best, Clark PS -- I've always retained a soft spot for the work of the other folks in Vienna in the 1880s. They were already exploring brain chemistry as an explanation for mental illness, and Freud set the study back about 70 years. -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@p1.f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@p1.f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: Erol Torun/DMA Date: 15 Oct 91 22:06:00 GMT nc> + Earl Torun. Torun does work for the Defense Mapping Agency, my nc> + heavan, must be CIA, DIA, FBI, NSA, NRO, etc. Take your pick. nc> Don, if Erol (not 'Earl') is an intelligence agent, I'm Mickey nc> Mouse. Get to know him sometime. Might even make a fine interview nc> for the magazine. And while you're at it you might apologize to him nc> for having posted such an outrageous accusation. His civilian nc> employment at the DMA is incidental to his independent work on the nc> Cydonia math. If I may intrude here, Dan, it seems to me to be highly unlikely that Mr. Torun's work at the Defense Mapping Agency would put him in direct contact with highly secret mapping data, probably the SATINT provided by the satellites of the NRO. I have no problem at all with this, because it seems to me that this sort of work is one of the most legitimate applications of military intelligence. If Mr. Torun does such work for DMA (and it sure sounds like he does in some capacity), he probably helped to save the lives of thousands of Allied soldiers and Iraqi civilians by ensuring that our forces didn't get lost in the desert and our Tomahawk missiles and F-117As flew true and hit the right targets. Anyway, unless/until the DMA is charged with sending cruise missiles thru the bedroom windows of ParaNet hub operators [to ensure tranquility in the New World Order? :-)] I think we should be glad they did their jobs so well. As for the rest of the permanent Intelligence community, I continue to think that they are potentially more dangerous to our own liberties than they are to most of our adversaries. 4 what it's worth... Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@p1.f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro) Subject: Re: WEIRD NIGHT ON HALLOWEEN Date: 14 Oct 91 15:23:11 GMT Let me guess, Wisconsin is not one of those states? I tried last week, and found nothing. Maybe I can get up a long wire and see if it's out there? Sounds interesting. Doing and research at this time? -- Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro) Subject: Re: BENTWATER,UK ON UNSOLVED MYSTE Date: 14 Oct 91 15:34:28 GMT I think I should give up on this, but people stating their own shadows were delayed, does not relate to the object being in a different plane or time, the shadow is still in this time. To have a delay would me the delay occurs between the object casting the shadow and the object projecting the shadow. At 1/1000 reduction in speed the shadow would show no delay since it's traveling at 186 miles per second. Move it to 1/10,000 the speed of light and it's still 18.6 miles per second, which turns out to be roughly 66,960 miles per hour. To go just one step further to 1.8 mps, it's still over 6,000 miles an hour. Where does all that energy come from in a few feet, and wouldn't you think the people standing that close to it would be fast fried by some sort of energy radiation? -- Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro) Subject: Re: BALL LIGHTNING Date: 14 Oct 91 15:48:47 GMT Yes I saw ball lightning once in my life. Summer of 1970 while watching a storm out of a second floor picture window. I was a student and had an apartment on the edge of town. The window faced south-west over a parking lot and to the west across the street was a farm. The storms around here come in fast, and most are from the west, so watching thunder storms can be interesting... The ball lightning (if that's what I really saw?) was after a close strike, where upon a ball of light somewhere between a softball and basketball size, rolled across a power wire a few feet, down the pole itself, and across the ground about two feet. It sort of spun like a top a couple of seconds, or less, and vanished. It was decaying in size, and if you know what a top looks like as it is losing energy, that would be the type of spin. I would estimate from memory that the whole event lasted 4 seconds at most. I remember it well because I had heard of ball lightning and was quite amused to have seen something that appeared to be the real thing. Oh yes color was about what you would expect from a candle, yellowish with white edges. No sound to note. It was during a heavy storm, with rain, so I could not hear anything if it had made a noise. Just a ball of electricity taking a short route, and disappearing. The size may actually have been smaller, since light tends to make things look bigger under dark skys. Anyway, it was a surprise. -- Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bruce.Johnson@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bruce Johnson) Subject: Re: Micap Date: 15 Oct 91 04:19:00 GMT Steve, Duh, I don't know why he doesn't just call, in fact I believe he does occasionally call, but mentioned to mesomething about how neat it would be to get the echo 'live'. I am a mere babe in the woods in this FIDO, net, stuff. -- Bruce Johnson - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bruce.Johnson@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bruce.Johnson@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bruce Johnson) Subject: Re: Micap Date: 15 Oct 91 04:21:01 GMT MC> MC> Have him give me a voice call at 303-431-8796. I will be MC> glad to discuss this with him. MC> MC> Mike MC> MC> --- FD 1.99c MC> * Origin: ParaNet -- Leading UFO Research Network MC> (1:104/428.0) Great, Mike, I presume this means there is hope for him getting his board on the echos or something... He said he did call once and got a rrecordin. Thanks so much. -B -- Bruce Johnson - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bruce.Johnson@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vladimir.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Vladimir Godic) Subject: Re: Dr. Fredrick Bell Date: 13 Oct 91 07:34:00 GMT > CM> Bell says that the USA and the so-called Grey aliens work together and > CM> intend to ignite Jupiter and use it as a second Sun. [Andre adds that > CM> whatever this may mean, he has it from a second source in Gulf Breeze, > > > Hmmm...somebody there show him a copy of "2010"? ;-) There was a "prediction", about 25 years ago that Jupiter will became a second Sun in our solar system. As we all know this has not yet happened (and I don't think it will) - most of those so called "predictions" just don't seem to work out. Have you heard this before and do you see any connection with Bell's statement Steve? Vlad -- Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Vladimir.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to: UUCP {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara-request DOMAIN infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to: DOMAIN ftp.uiowa.edu (directory /archives/paranet) Mail to private Paranet/Fidonet addresses from the newsletters: DOMAIN firstname.lastname@paranet.org UUCP scicom!paranet.org!firstname.lastname ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************