Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 528 Saturday, January 25th 1992 (C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved. Today's Topics: Light show in Scranton Delphos Samples Siberian Encounter UK Bulletin Boards Radio Isotopes Australian CCs Aussie Circles Siberian Encounter Delphos, Deuterium, pulasar planets Andean Anomalies, et al Puerto Rico Texas Camps - FEMA Wackenhut Aussie Circles Aussie crop circle Australian Computer Book Siberian Encounter Message for Mike Dobbs Siberia and Circles Wackenhut Re: FEDER & WILLIAMS' B Re: CIS MESSAGE Amazon Question ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: Light show in Scranton Date: 20 Jan 92 07:23:07 GMT > I was watching channel 2 news out of New York City last week on my > satellite > and saw a report on a strange story out of Scranton, PA. I heard something about that on one of the other echos. No other info, except that MUFON has a couple of guys working on it. jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mrc-crc.ac.uk!sgamble Subject: Delphos Samples Date: 21 Jan 92 12:32:19 GMT From: sgamble@mrc-crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) In a recent posting Jim Speiser states :' I hope Mark (Rodeghier) picks up the Delphos comments and passes to Erol Faruk for comment'. Erol is a member of BUFORA and one of my Trace analysis team, so I can pick up the comments and pass on. Steve Gamble -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mrc-crc.ac.uk!sgamble Subject: Siberian Encounter Date: 21 Jan 92 12:32:30 GMT From: sgamble@mrc-crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) In recent posting, Sheldon Wernikoff raises the point of a Mig-29 pilot not being sure if he saw something on the 24th or 25th of December 1989 as these are Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. Could I suggest two possible reasons for this : 1. Although the 'Authorities' are happy for people in general to know about the report, they do not want to be too specific about any military operation. 2. I believe that the Russians do not celebrate Christmas as we do in the West. I think that even the Russian Church celebrates a festival on what I would call 12th Night i.e. 6 days after New Year. The 24/25th December would probably just be any other day to the pilot. Steve Gamble -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mrc-crc.ac.uk!sgamble Subject: UK Bulletin Boards Date: 21 Jan 92 12:32:42 GMT From: sgamble@mrc-crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Several people have posted recently asking about UK based UFO Boards. BUFORA has been considering running a board for some while but is not yet in a position to do so. I have been negotiating recently with a colleague who runs a board for her family history data to have a UFO section. At the moment she has been taking info from wildnet, but if we start a UFO section we would look to take Fidonet as well. I will post as soon (?if) I have any more news. Steve Gamble -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: doc.imperial.ac.uk!aixssc.ibm.co.uk!rob Subject: Radio Isotopes Date: 21 Jan 92 22:45:06 GMT From: Robert Trevelyan Just received my report on 'The Discovery of Thirteen Short-lived Radonuclides.........'. This is a pretty heavy document but as Sheldon rightly corrected is in soil samples not corn as I first reported. I guess this comes from sending notes before reading the facts and believing what people tell you on the telephone. Thanks again for putting me right. Great report but I am not sure of the relevance at this point. Regards, Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Trevelyan Internet: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk AIX Communications vnet: TREVELR at NHBVM7 Voice: +44-(0)256-56144 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: doc.imperial.ac.uk!aixssc.ibm.co.uk!rob Subject: Australian CCs Date: 21 Jan 92 22:45:18 GMT From: Robert Trevelyan Keith, Thanks for the Australian crop circle posts, very interesting. Also looks like D+D did not make Australia then. Here in the UK the media seemed to have accepted that D+D were the cause and even the local television station, TVS, reported in their 1991 review program that 1991 was the year that the corn circle mysteries were solved by the emergence of two retired gents. Lets wait and see in the 1992 'season' Regards, Robert -- Robert Trevelyan Internet: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk AIX Communications vnet: TREVELR at NHBVM7 Voice: +44-(0)256-56144 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff) Subject: Aussie Circles Date: 22 Jan 92 05:00:01 GMT * Forwarded from: FIDO *UFO* echo * Originally dated: 19-Jan-92 * Originally from: Chris Rutkowski * Originally to: Sheldon Wernikoff Bill: Chris Rutkowski in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, has asked that I forward his reply to you re: Australian circles which I am so doing. Take care -- Sheldon ------------------------------------------------------------------ I would agree with Bill on his points. I also have found that Meaden's theory doesn't seem to hold for the flat topography in the case of the Manitoba circles. Admittedly, the Alberta circles were in slightly rolling terrain, but far different from the Britsih experience. Can you cross-post my reply to Chalker? ------ Chris --- TPBoard 6.4 -- Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent.Wilcox@p5.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Brent Wilcox) Subject: Siberian Encounter Date: 22 Jan 92 00:10:45 GMT In a message to Ncar!wam.umd.edu!infinity <19 Jan 92 16:34> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote: SW> You are of course correct about Xmas in Russia, approx. 60% of the SW> Russian people are atheist, and those that do celebrate Xmas, do so SW> privately. Therefore, the probability of Vladimir associating the SW> event with Xmas, or Xmas eve, does seem remote. See how agreeable SW> I am? Actually, the Russians who celebrate Xmas probably celebrate the Russian Orthodox date -- Jan 6. Just a footnote... --Brent P.S. Re: Crop Circle Radioactivity -- I got a message on another Net from Marshall Dudley explaining that they've pulled their upcoming article in the Cerealogist. The lab that did the tests actually -- when he was able to look at their raw data, instead of the computer analysis they provided -- seems to have muddled it. The anomalies may be background noise... I hope to re-post his (more detailed) message here, if he'll let me. Or maybe get him calling ParaNet (what's the closest node to Tennesse?). -- Brent Wilcox - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Brent.Wilcox@p5.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent.Wilcox@p5.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Brent Wilcox) Subject: Delphos, Deuterium, pulasar planets Date: 22 Jan 92 00:15:33 GMT In a message to All <20 Jan 92 12:31> ncar!violet.berkeley.edu! wrote: nc> Jim and Linda: I hate to be wholly on the catabolic side of nc> paranormal research and investigations but I recall seeing a nc> statement this week (in Nature?) that the claim of planets orbiting nc> a pulsar had been retracted by the investigator. Apparently, a nc> component of the earth's orbital motion had been neglected in the nc> data processing and this accounted for the observed motion of nc> the pulsar. The effect is a subtle one and was overlooked because nc> it is usually unimportant in this kind of study. nc> On the other hand, a more plausible mechanism for planets nc> surviving a supernova explosion of their star was discussed. The nc> metallic core of a Jupiter-sized planet might survive and the energy nc> released by decompressing the core when the atmosphere ablated nc> might help circularize the orbit afterwards. I understood the retraction to be about a claim made by British astronomers last June or so... I don't recall if it involved a pulsar or not. The planetary claim made recently by a different group of astronomers (involving a pulsar) still stands (I think). But I think the press has muddled the two in the public's mind -- a "discovery" followed by a similar-but-unrelated "retraction". Kinda messy... And I've heard it hypothesized that the pulsar's planets are actually material thrown off by the star's collapse and captured in orbit. Created with the pulsar, rather than pre-existing planets that survived the cataclysm. -- Brent Wilcox - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Brent.Wilcox@p5.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: Andean Anomalies, et al Date: 22 Jan 92 00:01:00 GMT In a message to All <13 Jan 92 18:03> ncar!ecn.purdue.edu!lush wrote: nc> From: lush@ecn.purdue.edu (Gregory B Lush) nc> Date: 13 Jan 92 20:39:17 GMT nc> Message-ID: <17888@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM> nc> Newsgroups: info.paranet nc> Subject: Anomalies in the Andes Hi Greg & sorry for the lapse in replying. I'ze been bizzy theze dayz. nc> ? Hmmm, indeed. Actually, some of the nc> most interesting stuff is underwater on nc> ? the U.S. Costal Shelf, around Bermuda nc> and the Caribbean islands, and in the nc> ? Gulf of Mexico. I seem to recall the nc> discovery of a well-preserved stone nc> ? staircase leading down to a beach on the Yucatan. nc> ? nc> ? But the beach is now 150' underwater, the stairs begin almost nc> 100' underwater, Dr. J. Mason Valentine has explored this. It's been in a couple of books, including Berlitz's Mystery of Atlantis and some more scholarly places I can't recall. The depth was due to both rising sea level & costal subsidence, though, if memory serves. nc> ? There's a similar anomaly just below Mancu Picu in the Andes: nc> a stairway leads nc> ? down to the beach. The beach is at nc> about 11,000 feet elevation, and seems to nc> ? have been there before the Mountains rose to their present nc> height! In fact the nc> ? whole city of Mancu Picu has been nc> 'undatable' according to some sources, nc> ? because it was virtually nc> earthquake-proof (until the Conquistadores removed nc> ? the flexible silver braces from the buildings). nc> ? Well, I'm still looking for the source of this. I suspect I may have got it wrong -- it's not Mancu Picu but Tihuanaco. I shall continue to persevere to quest after the source. :-) Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: Puerto Rico Date: 22 Jan 92 00:09:00 GMT In a message to Anyone <14 Jan 92 00:09> Winn Schwartau wrote: WS> Been hearing a couple of rumors: WS> 1. In late Nov early Dec, over Puerto Rico, 2 F-14's WS> played tag with a UFO in front of lots of people AND a TV camera WS> from the local station. I've heard several people talk about it, WS> but no one who has seen/has access to the video. According to WS> Hard Copy production staff, they were outbid for the video by WS> another 'news' organization. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I heard the same thing, but the time was October and the place, Adjuntas, PR. WS> 2. The Feds are going to come clean. Been able to trace WS> this to a Dr. Robert Carr at the Univ of Southern Florida who is WS> tied to the Feds somehow. I'll believe it when I see/hear it. How is this Carr guy tied to the Feds? What agencies/grants/projects? If he's just running a defense research grant, they'll tell him anything to keep him online. Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: Texas Camps - FEMA Date: 22 Jan 92 01:20:00 GMT In a message to Don Ecker <10 Jan 92 11:19> Kay Mclaughlin wrote: >DE> Kay Mclaughlin asked; >> On the Chuck Harder Show the other night, I heard a snippet about how >> various private pilots(?) have been seeing "concentration type camps"(!) >> springing up in the wilds of Texas. I didn't catch the whole thing, but >> it sounded weird, he said he was looking into it. >> Heard anything? KM> Thanks so much, that was exactly the distant bell that rang in my head KM> when I heard the rumor. FEMA, FEMA, FEMA. Bingo! Kay (& Don), You may be interested to know that the shadowy bureaucrats of FEMA have suddenly taken a higher profile here in the Northeast. All of a sudden, two of them appeared on the Jersey Shore, making promises about Federal preparedness to restore the damaged beaches & breakwaters here. This happened three weeks ago, and they haven't been heard from since. They only seem to be interested in beach areas around Ft. Dix and McGuire AFB, which are slated for reductions and cutbacks. Several folks here have taken notice of this. Theories range from an election-year Federal makework program to help local economies around the bases to conversion of areas within the bases to barracks-type camps. NSD-47 and the other Executive Orders and Directives of its ilk do not bode well for the continuation of freedom in this country, in my opinion. Keep you posted as long as the phones work... Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: Wackenhut Date: 22 Jan 92 07:29:00 GMT In a message to John Galt <16 Jan 92 19:46> Don Ecker wrote: DE> PERU, 88-91 PRIVATE SECURITY CORPORATION FORMING IMPORTANT ROLE DE> IN LIC-DRUG OPERATIONS. FROM 1981-91, PERUVIAN SECURITY CORPORATIONS DE> INCREASED FROM 80 TO 350, PLUS 150 UNOFFICIAL ORGANIZATIONS. AMONG DE> THOSE IS WACKENHUT CORP, WHOSE EMPLOYEES CONSIST OF MANY EX-CIA, DE> DEA, FBI MEMBERS. Z 11/90 87 Also NSC, NSA and DIA. Interestingly, Wackenhut seems to have a direct line into the Justice Dept. and excellent contacts with local law enforcement. The Riconsciutto case (shall we say "drug plant"?) is a good case in point. DE> DOMESTIC OP DE> CHILE, CUBA. WACKENHUT CORP OF CORAL GABLES, FLORIDA. PROVIDES DE> SECURITY SYSTEMS THRUOUT WORLD. INMAN WAS DIRECTOR OF CORP PLUS DE> OTHER INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN 80 WACKENHUT WORKED CLOSELY WITH DE> S. CALIFORNIA'S CABAZON INDIANS AND THEIR TRIBAL ADMINISTRATOR DE> JOHN PHILIP NICHOLS. NICHOLS PER NEWS ARTICLE, BOASTED RE ATTEMPTED DE> ASSASSINATION CASTRO AND SUCCESSFUL ASSASSINATION OF SALVADOR ALLENDE. Nichols is not even an American Indian, I understand. The prior administrator was removed from the reservation by the Reagan Administration after Nichols, Brian & Co. bought the reservation Bingo Hall and started moving Wackenhut- managed weapons and biotech manufacturing operations in. Three members of the Cabazon band were murdered execution-style during the takeover. Dan Casolaro apparently had information (which disappeared from his hotel room) that the Cabazon protestors were murdered by three ex-Special Forces contract killers, who are employed by the Chicago Fire Department. DE> WACKENHUT/CABAZON CONNECTION OF PARTICULAR INTEREST TO D. CASOLARO DE> WHO DIED IN W.VIRGINIA IN 91 HE ALSO INVESTIGATING OCTOBER SURPRISE DE> AND INSLAW. MICHAEL RICONOSCIUTO - A WEAPONS-SYSTEM DESIGNER AND DE> SOFTWARE SPECIALIST - WAS DIR OF A RESEARCH PROJECT OF WACKENHUT/CABAZON DE> JOINT VENTURE. IN EARLY 80s AFFIDAVIT SAID HE MODIFIED A STOLEN DE> PROMIS SOFTWARE FOR FOREIGN SALES. OTHER INFO ON WACKENHUT. ITT DE> 9/24/81 4-5 DE> FOR EIGHT YEARS INSLAW BATTLING JUSTICE DEPT FOR POSSESSION OF DE> PROMIS, A SOFT-WARE PROGRAM DEVELOPED BY COMPANY OWNER BILL HAMILTON. DE> IN 91 INSLAW WENT PUBLIC AND ALLEGED REAGAN JUSTICE DEPT, AFTER IT DE> HAD STOLEN PROMIS, TURNED IT OVER TO EARL BRIAN. INSLAW ALLEGES Actually this isn't quite true. Bill Hamilton went "public" to the press much earlier, and Dow Jones/Barron's has followed this case since 1987, not long after Meese attempted to force Inslaw into involuntary bankruptcy in the federal bankruptcy courts. The Napa Sentinel series I posted actually started as a series on corruption in the Federal Bankruptcy courts in Northern California -- that's where Meese's associates have the best connections. This would have precluded a suit by Inslaw for software piracy by the Attorney General of the United States, the Wackenhut Corporation, and numerous agencies that "recommended" or distributed the stolen software the foreign intelligence /secret police agencies. The involuntary bankruptcy filing was started at the same time Meese was "investigating" Ollie North). DE> SOFTWARE GIVEN BRIAN AS PAYBACK FOR BRIAN'S HELP IN ARRANGING DE> ARMS-FOR- HOSTAGE DEAL WITH IRAN IN 1980 (OCTOBER SURPRISE). PER Problem was, the software was a "gift" like the Trojan Horse (pardon the pun) - - it came with a surprise inside. The surprise was Ari Ben-Menasche, a sociopathic sometime fixer/functionary for Mossad and Shin-Beth, the Israeli secret service/secret police. Ben-Menasche made the U.S. arms-hostages deals happen, somehow insinuated himself in the Contra/Drug side of the equation, and became involved in the Inslaw matter as a fixer for Brian, when ol' Earl was pitching the Wackenhut-pirated software to Mossad. Many people say Ben-Menasche is a compulsive liar, and they're right. But have you read his affadivits, Don? DE> GENERAL THORNBURG, UNDER SUPOENA, RELEASED INSLAW-RELATED FILES - DE> BUT 15 TO 20 FILES MISSING. ITT 9/10/91 4-5 ... and I, for one, am glad Thornburg lost in Pennsylvania. :-) He owed the American people a fair investigation and bugged out. He deserves defeat and disgrace, just as much as Meese, who he's protecting. DE> INSLAW PRES BILL HAMILTON SAYS HE HAS INFO THAT PROMIS ILLEGALLY DE> SOLD TO SOUTH KOREA, LIBYA, JORDAN, GREAT BRITAIN (ENGLAND), GERMANY, DE> FRANCE, AUSTRALIA, THAILAND, JAPAN, CHILE, GUATEMALA, BRAZIL, AND DE> CANADA. CANADIAN COMPANY, COMMUNICATIONS CANADA - THE CANADIAN >Canadians Please Note:>> Have ANY CANADIAN USERS EVER HEARD of something called the CCC? Do you know what it does?? Ask your MP. Keep asking. CCC uses stolen Inslaw software -- just like the Iraqi secret police. DE> RICONOSCIUTO ARRESTED AND CHARGED WITH SELLING MORE THAN 4 GRAMS DE> OF POTENT SPEED. ITT 6/11/91 11-13 Four grams? FOUR GRAMS!?!? What a DISGRACE! Any self-respecting cooperative constable should be able to palm and plant at least an OUNCE of methedrine on a set-up target!! Well, a set-up victim with POCKETS, anyway. Where do they GET these people??? Keep diggin', Don, keep diggin'. Best, Clark PS -- Don, could you repost info on getting CIABASE? -- Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill.Chalker.UFORA.Associate.NSW@f8.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW) Subject: Aussie Circles Date: 19 Jan 92 19:21:00 GMT Sheldon, Thanks for your response on this. You have passed on some interesting info. As my polling window is nearly over I'll respond in further detail next time. Regards, Bill. -- Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bill.Chalker.UFORA.Associate.NSW@f8.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield) Subject: Aussie crop circle Date: 18 Jan 92 20:54:00 GMT The phenomenon taps in to Paranet. I'm sure of it now. After recently posting an item that we have not had any recent examples of crop circles in Australia I now humbly have to report:- "The Age" Newspaper, Melbourne, Victoria. 31/12/91. " "If anyone calls me a prankster, I'll punch them in the nose," says Ken price. It must be said at the outset that Mr Price, a Mallee wheatgrower for 50 of his 64 years, is not a violent person. Nor is he a ratbag or a hoaxer. He does, however, have some unexplained circles in his wheat paddocks that are attracting the attention of international crop circle watchers, and yes, UFO enthusiasts. Mr Price first stumbled upon the circles earlier this month when he and his son Noel were harvesting their wheat. There are six circles varying from two to 3.5 metres in diameter and another larger oval 4.5 metres across in another paddock. On seeing the first circle, Mr Price put the flattened crop down to foxes and thought nothing more about it. When he came upon another, then another and then a few days later the large oval, 1.5 kilometres away, he called in neigbours to take a closer look. They, like him, had never seen anything like it and were fascinated. It was then that he contacted another farmer, Mrs Nancy Jolly, who put him in touch with a group led by Colin Andrews, the British crop circle researcher who gave up his job as an electrical engineer 18 months ago to go on the crop circle detective trail full time. In 1989, a number of crop circles had appeared at Mrs Jolly's Turriff farm, about 20 kilometres from the Price farm near Hopetoun. A third, unconfirmed sighting has also been reported at nearby Beulah. Mr Andrews visited Australia recently and last month spent some time on the Jolly property. Mr Price does not believe the circles are the handiwork of a practical joker. "I assure you it's fair dinkum," he says. "No person could re-create them, or flatten a crop like that." He is taking the Great Mallee Mystery in his stride, although he was reported to be slightly alarmed at a suggestion by a UFO "expert" that the field might be radioactive. It isn't." -- Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vladimir.Godic@f6.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Vladimir Godic) Subject: Australian Computer Book Date: 23 Jan 92 06:32:00 GMT > Vladimir, > > It would seem that you too are a victim of a crossed > wire network. My name is Mark Rodeghier too, but I'm not the > same one you have been in contact with in the past. It's > possible that this other 'Mark Rodeghier' is related to me in > some way but I have never met him. This is the second time this > has happened on this net. If you know of a way that I might > contact him directly, please let me know. I would like to find > out if we are related. With a name like Rodeghier, we can't be > too far apart on the geneology tree. > > Sorry about the mix up and I hope your message got to the other > 'Mark' without delay. > Hi Mark Rodeghier (No 2) There is no mix up, my message was directed to Mark Rodeghier of the Center for UFO Studies because I know him but I don't know you. So it's basically very simple. You can write to him C/- J.Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies, 2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60659. Info. Paranet is an open area so I am sure Mark Rodeghier was able to read my message. Regards, Vladimir -- Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Vladimir.Godic@f6.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff) Subject: Siberian Encounter Date: 23 Jan 92 00:10:01 GMT In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <21-Jan-92 12:10> Steve Gamble wrote: SG> In recent posting, Sheldon Wernikoff raises the point of a SG> Mig-29 pilot not being sure if he saw something on the 24th or SG> 25th of December 1989 as these are Christmas Eve and Christmas SG> Day. Could I suggest two possible reasons for this : SG> 1. Although the 'Authorities' are happy for people SG> in general to know about the report, they do not SG> want to be too specific about any military operation. SG> 2. I believe that the Russians do not celebrate Christmas SG> as we do in the West. I think that even the Russian SG> Church celebrates a festival on what I would call SG> 12th Night i.e. 6 days after New Year. The 24/25th SG> December would probably just be any other day to the SG> pilot. Hi Steve... I certainly agree with #2. In all likelihood, there would be inadequate probability of association with the 24/25 date, for your stated reasons. However, #1 does not readily apply, since Vladimir was not engaged in a military operation at the time of his sighting. He was rehearsing aerobatics for the Chelyabinsk Aeroclub, a civilian organization. Additionally, the article appeared in IUR under the sponsorship of the Joint American-Soviet Aerial Anomaly Federation (JASAAF), a civilian organization. I still feel that the actual date of the event should have been known or easily retrievable by one of the principals, or Haines, the author. There may be a very valid reason for this incongruity, but frankly, I've yet to be convinced. Thanks for your post, -- Sheldon -- Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: doc.imperial.ac.uk!aixssc.ibm.co.uk!rob Subject: Message for Mike Dobbs Date: 23 Jan 92 02:40:59 GMT From: Robert Trevelyan Mike, Did you get the photos I sent you. I mailed you a note but the link to the internet here can be a bit flaky. Let me know if you didn't get a email to your hp address. Cheers, Robert -- Robert Trevelyan Internet: rob@aixssc.ibm.co.uk AIX Communications vnet: TREVELR at NHBVM7 Voice: +44-(0)256-56144 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff) Subject: Siberia and Circles Date: 23 Jan 92 04:01:01 GMT In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <21-Jan-92 17:10> Brent Wilcox wrote: BW> Actually, the Russians who celebrate Xmas probably celebrate BW> the Russian Orthodox date -- Jan 6. Hello Brent.... Yes, as several others have pointed out, I blew that one. Guess that's why religion's off-topic on this echo BW> I got a message on another Net from Marshall Dudley explaining BW> that they've pulled their upcoming article in the Cerealogist. PLEASE!!! Do post anything further you hear on this one. A most interesting development. Score 1 more for the skeptics. Take care, Sheldon -- Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker) Subject: Wackenhut Date: 22 Jan 92 14:31:00 GMT Clark Matthews asked: > PS -- Don, could you repost info on getting CIABASE? Sure Clark. The cost is $99.00 U.S., and send check or money order to CIABASE P.O. Box 5022 Herndon, Va. 22070 It comes on floppys, so tell them 5 1/4 HD or DD, or 3 1/2 HD or DD. Tell em Don sent you..... Don -- Don Ecker - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro) Subject: Re: FEDER & WILLIAMS' B Date: 21 Jan 92 17:28:45 GMT I'll have to look for that book, thanks. As for common symbols, how many ways are there to symbolize a tree or a stream, or a cave? There are bound to be duplications. I've been reading about indian petroglyphs lately and found the only book where someone has "broken" the code. Really interesting. So for example make a spiral, now make it the other way, you now have two symbols that are universally found on planet earth. Is there anything strange about that? l = 1 ll = 2 lll = 3 etc. I'm not trying to discount any transfer of language or blendings, but I would say that sometimes finding things that are similar is a matter of human intellegence. We have the ability to reflect and reason. We can remember and apply from different areas of knowledge. When I see the same symbols in Celtic designs that Indians used in rock drawings, does that imply that the two groups met or had contact? Personally I don't believe so. Coincidence yes, limitations on variations also. If one looks for strange things, they will without a doubt find something strange. -- Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro) Subject: Re: CIS MESSAGE Date: 21 Jan 92 17:35:18 GMT I read USA today for the sports section, and football is the only one I follow. They have some interesting articles which I will miss until next Sept. The one about West and the Pyramids got clipped and saved. I haven't seen anything on UFO's, but they do get into some unusual events in depth. When the flight 19 flap was going on they had coverage, which most other newspapers gave about two inches. I warned someone else not to ask me for things or they would get three pounds UPS to dig through. 8*) -- Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: Amazon Question Date: 23 Jan 92 04:16:04 GMT > The Independent, the paper which was cited as the source of this > Amazon Discovery story, is available online on Compuserve, but it'd run > about $11 to get the item Wooo...don't do that....*expensive*. Maybe it'll turn up in UFONCS. jbh -- John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG ******************************************************************************** For permission to reproduce or redistribute this digest, contact: DOMAIN Michael.Corbin@paranet.org UUCP scicom!paranet.org!Michael.Corbin ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to: UUCP {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara-request DOMAIN infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to: DOMAIN ftp.uiowa.edu (directory /archives/paranet) Mail to private Paranet/Fidonet addresses from the newsletters: DOMAIN firstname.lastname@paranet.org UUCP scicom!paranet.org!firstname.lastname ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************