Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 572 Monday, July 20th 1992 (C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved. Today's Topics: Nasa Censorship! K2 Report - Conclusion K2 Report - Conclusion UK CIRCLES Re: ROAD FLARES Oberg's "explanation For Sts-48 Ufo" Re: What can we do? (and K2 And The Phoenix Project K2 And The Phoenix Project Rating on Dulce Report and K2 Report Re: What Can We Do? (And K2 Report - Conclusion Re: UK CIRCLES Re: Men In Black (mib's) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Nasa Censorship! Date: 8 Jul 92 23:16:01 GMT * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors" * Originally from Bill Moore * Originally dated 07-06-92 12:43 From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) Date: 4 Jul 92 06:31:19 GMT Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA Message-ID: <1992Jul4.063119.9412@anasaz> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors I've been off sick and haven't been on this group for awhile so I apologize if this has been covered. Does anyone know why NASA is encoding the shuttle feed on Satcom 2, transponder 5? That's the "raw" uplink to NASA direct from the shuttle. Transponder 13 is still in the clear but that's the "packaged" stuff NASA puts together for the news media. Audio and video from the shuttle has been "in the clear" during every shuttle mission for years so it was really a suprise when they started this. They're using the same encoding system as CBS and ABC whcih means they're pretty serious about it. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Moore billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (602) 395-1732 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke) Subject: K2 Report - Conclusion Date: 9 Jul 92 07:01:00 GMT Mike: This Phoenix group's report demonstrates a good con technique: Gain confidence of the audience by demonstrating that Dulce is a myth. Then replace that myth with a new one: K2 (include repeated "regrets" that the data base of UFOlogy is cluttered with disinformation). Some nagging questions: Do these people people have names? Why would they keep their names secret? Their phones are allegedly tapped, so their identity is no secret to the government. So, from whom do they seek to conceal their identities? (Obviously from UFOlogists who may ask too many of the "right" questions) It's also interesting to note that Pilot's Peak is not too far from Carson City (about 75 miles) just as Area 51 was about that far from Lear's home in Las Vegas. Would these people be telling us about an "alien base" in South Carolina? Are they really that all-knowing or do they just like creating mythology about local "mysterious places"? What has this Phoenix group contributed to UFOlogy since its alleged inception in 1952? (Answer: Not a f***ing thing!) It's time people in this field started demanding more documentation, just as the K2 report suggests. We can start by demanding the NAMES of the characters who come up with far-fetched tales such as this. (Actually, I wouldn't be too surprised to see that this Phoenix group consisted of some of the same old B.S.'ers from Nevada: Grace, Lear & Co.) -- John -- John Burke - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: K2 Report - Conclusion Date: 9 Jul 92 13:58:01 GMT + This Phoenix group's report demonstrates a good con technique: + + Gain confidence of the audience by demonstrating that Dulce is a + myth. Then replace that myth with a new one: K2 (include repeated + "regrets" that the data base of UFOlogy is cluttered with + disinformation). + + Some nagging questions: + + Do these people people have names? Why would they keep their names + secret? Their phones are allegedly tapped, so their identity is no + secret to the government. So, from whom do they seek to conceal their + identities? (Obviously from UFOlogists who may ask too many of the + "right" questions) + + +It's also interesting to note that Pilot's Peak is not too far from + Carson City (about 75 miles) just as Area 51 was about that far from + Lear's home in Las Vegas. Would these people be telling us about an + "alien base" in South Carolina? Are they really that all-knowing or do + they just like creating mythology about local "mysterious places"? + + What has this Phoenix group contributed to UFOlogy since its alleged + inception in 1952? (Answer: Not a f***ing thing!) + + It's time people in this field started demanding more documentation, + just as the K2 report suggests. We can start by demanding the NAMES of + the characters who come up with far-fetched tales such as this. + (Actually, I wouldn't be too surprised to see that this Phoenix group + consisted of some of the same old B.S.'ers from Nevada: Grace, Lear & + Co.) I agree. These are just the beginning of some of the questions that we will ask. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent.Wilcox@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Brent Wilcox) Subject: UK CIRCLES Date: 10 Jul 92 01:03:00 GMT >>Long time, no see/hear! Hey, that's one way of checking on crop circles! >>Make your own, then see how they compare to what is considered the "real >>thing." (Hi Linda -- I've been lurking... and moving out of L.A...) Seems like this crop circle competition is the best idea anyone's had so far. Putting some of the proposed man-made strategies to a test is long overdue. I just wish I could attend the contest! But travel to the UK would be stretching things a bit right now... * JABBER v1.1 #55 * -- Brent Wilcox - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Brent.Wilcox@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro) Subject: Re: ROAD FLARES Date: 6 Jul 92 21:43:11 GMT Oh I guess I should look at the scale on the map next time? I thought it looked like a mile across the bay. 8*) As someone else say, "Know anyone with a really fast boat?" At this point in time, even if someone was caught red handed, with a flare on a balloon, the answer would be... "Oh that's only one case, it doesn't explain the rest." How true, but as usual we are left with unexplained on one hand and egg in our face in the other. The burden of proof rests upon the people making the claims, not the converse. Some things which crossed my diluted mind this weekend: 1) It's up to the real UFO researchers to help weed out the frauds, and clean up the field. 2) Just because someone has competence in one field, it doesn't mean they are qualified in another. 3) Factoids are made believable because of repetition, not because of valid evidence that supports the information. 4) One who has a political or personal agenda connected to any scientific endevour, should be examined even more skeptically. So what am I getting at? Dr. So And So, who happens to be a Phd. in one field, starts to be an expert in UFO's. He has credibility because of his education is something unrelated to UFO's. Self proclaimed experts flood the field with no training, no publications and more important no peer review. The "expert" then finds associates to follow and spread "the truth" which only they know and control. Through sheer repetition it becomes part of the bank of knowledge, even though it has no solid footing to begin with. The result is the morass we all have to deal with, while trying to solve the UFO puzzle. The information base is not only diluted, but poluted. Here's the UFO puzzle as it stands today. Take 25 jig-saw puzzles from assorted manufacturers. Mix well and remove 1000 parts. Now make a logical coherent picture using only these parts. That's what's wrong! First step is getting together and getting organized. Tough one isn't it since no-one even seems to agree what faction has the best foundation of ideas. Next systematically review information for validity. (I think Hynek already tried both of these?) Next have some system for accepting or rejecting information, based on reality (logic) instead of emotional drive. Last of all, create the starting point! Even if this is not the correct starting point, one would have a base available for review and adjustment according to new information, instead of a bag full of clippings in no particular order. If UFO's are a personal and emotional science, I might as well give up trying, because it means each individual can create their own reality and perception. I would have nothing much to learn from others, as this would be a totally internalized, feeling observation, and not a science at all. Let me explain the personal agenda above because it's really broad. Money, power, controlling others, gaining attention or religious aspects can each be a driving force. Let's not forget the few who are just mentally ill and don't have much contact with reality much in their whole life. (not just when refering to the paranormal, UFO's, or abduction) Not blasting at you of course, just speaking my mind to anyone who cares to read this and think about it. After all the words, it comes down to getting together and systematically working towards answering some questions. I don't know who said it first, but I've remembered this for a long time. "The most important part of solving a problem is not looking for the solution, but first figuring out what the question really is before starting." If it was me, I'll take credit, but I doubt that. 8*) ps Loved the fireworks / hated the traffic. Happy 4th again. -- Pete Porro - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Oberg's "explanation For Sts-48 Ufo" Date: 10 Jul 92 23:41:01 GMT * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors" * Originally from Robert Sheaffer * Originally dated 07-09-92 18:09 From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Date: 9 Jul 92 14:09:34 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Message-ID: <0w8l6h=.sheaffer@netcom.com> Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors NOTE OF INTEREST June 28, 1992 By: James Oberg, Rt 2 Box 35O, Dickinson, Texas 77539 Subject: Actual explanation for the notorious STS-48 "UFOs" on videotape After the "HardCopy" interview with Don Ecker (June 5), and my appearance with him on "Larry King Live" June 26, I've gotten an appreciation of where this UFO connection has come from. When I saw the original incoherent letters from D. Ratsch, I dismissed it as complete looney-tunes, but subsequently I've found out what fundamental misunderstanding and ignorance has led to the fuss. Lights on the shuttle TV cameras can be many things, and on these scenes in question they are stars, cities, lens spots, and nearby shuttle-generated debris (they are rarely if ever other satellites). Especially with the low-light cameras used for the nighttime mesoscale lightning surveys, the horizon is deceptive because the glowing line is the airglow and the actual edge of the earth is somewhat below it. With poor contrast; this means that stars can cross the glowing "horizon" and still be visible a bit further before actually setting. There are more than 50 sources of ice on the shuttle, plus a steady source of debris such as insulation flakes from inside the payload bay. This includes 38 primary RCS jets and 6 vernier jets (which burn the hypergolic [self-igniting] propellants of nitrogen tetroxide and hydrazine), an air dump line, a waste water dump line, a supply water dump line, two fuel cell purge lines (the hydrogen one is always leaking water), two flash evaporators, a water spray boiler, and so forth. No surprise, then, that floating debris near the shuttle is a common sight. The particles usually (not always) spin, and depending on the axis of spin they may or may not flash, and depending on the speed of spin their flicker may or may not be picked up by the camera CCD scanner. The RCS jets usually fire in 80-millisecond pulses to keep the shuttle pointed in a desired direction, under autopilot control (usually once every few minutes). These jets may flash when they ignite if the mixture ratio is not quite right. Propellant also tends to seep out the feed lines into the nozzle, where it accumulates, freezes through evaporative cooling, and flakes off during the next firing. The ejected burn byproducts travel at about 1000 ft/sec. One pulse usually emits about a quarter pound of propellant in a fan-shaped plume. When small, drifting debris particles are hit by this RCS plume they are violently accelerated away from the jet. This is what is seen in the infamous "Case 2" sequence, where a flash (the jet firing) is immediately followed by all nearby particles being pushed away from the jet, followed shortly later by a fast moving object (evidently RCS fuel ice) departing from the direction of the jet (the streak is caused by the slow camera speed). If one plotted all the departure lines of the pushed debris and the expelled ice, they would converge at the jet's location. These ice particles, in particular, form slowly inside the jets and elsewhere, as the fluid (water or propellant) seeps out and spreads over the surface, They take on the shape of the structure they form on. They can thus have just about any shape, usually flat. They have been seen and photographed for thirty years, about as long as UFOlogists have mistaken them for flying saucers. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Every psychic investigator of [the medium] Mrs. Piper was impressed by her simplicity and honesty. It never occurred to them that no charlatan ever achieves greatness by acting like a charlatan. No professional spy acts like a spy. No card cheat behaves at the table like a card cheat." - Martin Gardner (writing in "Free Inquiry", Spring, 1992) -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick.Moen@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Rick Moen) Subject: Re: What can we do? (and Date: 10 Jul 92 19:27:33 GMT + TD> "It is the opinion of SOFT that this represents a dangerous + TD> escalation of the myth of UFOs and should not be taken lightly." + + Tom: + + THIS is the kind of thing I've long ranted against in my tirades + against organized skepticism. "A dangerous escalation"? Dangerous to + whom?? I do wish you would post this in the ParaNet Skeptics echo. I + would like to hear from Rick Moen or Anson Kennedy on this issue. I'm + sure they, being reasonable, will decry it, but I want them to see + that the phenomenon of skepticism as true-believerism is alive and + well, and is manifesting itself not just in some short-sighted + individuals but in entire organizations. Just where is this SOFT + located, and are they sanctioned by CSICOP to your knowledge? (Yes, I + know, CSICOP doesn't "sanction" its various satellite groups, but + there is a great amount of information exchanged between them). You betcha I decry it, although I typically just mutter to myself "What a bunch of yammering twits", and ignore it. I didn't think it needed comment. I've never heard of this "SOFT", and certainly don't know of any connection to skeptics' groups such as BAS, NYASk, NCAS, etc. Best Regards, These WERE my opinions. Rick Moen Now they're yours, if you wish. Vice-Chair, Bay Area Skeptics -- Rick Moen - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Rick.Moen@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David.Brune@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Brune) Subject: K2 And The Phoenix Project Date: 9 Jul 92 08:26:00 GMT Michael, I have been personally contacted by one of the members of the Phoenix Group, via CompuServe. He tells me that the reports from Advent publishing are only about $10.00. I was also able to find out that this heliport that NASA has there must have something to do with all this. He says they are/have investigated this site. So whats next, I don't know. I'm trying to open a dialogue with the guy, they are worried about the government coming down on them. I'd be interested in what all they have, which is evidently more then is in the report. I will keep everyone posted as to what develops. David -- David Brune - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: David.Brune@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Matthews) Subject: K2 And The Phoenix Project Date: 11 Jul 92 15:36:00 GMT Hi David -- I've taken the liberty of moving the K2/Phoenix messages from you and Mike Corbin over from "Ask UFO Magazine" to ParaNet UFO. This area gets wider distribution, so it's probably the best place for discussing the "Phoenix Project". Let's have at it! ;-) Best, Clark -- Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Clark.Matthews@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) Subject: Rating on Dulce Report and K2 Report Date: 13 Jul 92 05:01:01 GMT Recently we published two reports generated by the Phoenix Project, a group in Carson City, Nevada. These two documents allege that members of this group investigated reports of underground alien bases in Dulce, New Mexico, and an underground alien base located in the Plumas National Forest in Northern California. Because of the following findings/reasons, ParaNet has assigned a high level of probability that the material contained in the documents is disinformation and is inaccurate. The reasons are as follows: 1) The Phoenix Project is unknown to the general UFO research community. No where in any of the materials are the principals of the organization identified. As is the case with any materials where substantive findings are reported, it demonstrates a strong lack of credibility when the names and addresses of the investigators are not provided. 2) Due to an investigation that has been ongoing, we have found that the material on Dulce is inaccurate. It is interesting that the Dulce report denies that anything exists at Dulce. Although we have found no information to the contrary, we feel that the report from the Phoenix Project is inaccurate as to location of buildings and other factors. There are things down there which are unusual. 3) The K2 material is too ambiguous and does not provide enough reliable data bits to launch an investigation into the claims. It appears that although the report is written with some literary license, the findings are presented in a very unscientific fashion. ParaNet will provide a complete report of its investigation into the various other claims contained in the reports as soon as the information is available. We have written to the Phoenix Project requesting further information. In the meantime, we urge caution in the use of this material. Michael Corbin Director ParaNet Information Services -- ParaNet(sm) Information Service - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: ParaNet(sm).Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom.Davis@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tom Davis) Subject: Re: What Can We Do? (And Date: 10 Jul 92 06:49:00 GMT Well, previous opinion aside, it seems that group's magazine is published by a fellow in Eugene, Oregon. Most of the material, however, seems to refer to Southern California and someplace called Haddonfield, New Jersey. I suspect this is really no more than a fan letter of sorts - it is hard to tell in these days of desk-top publishing. The incident has certainly taught me two important lessons. First, you never know who is reading a BBS; and, second, that it is very easy to become a "well known expert." You do understand that I wrote that last sentence with all the somberness it deserves? -- Tom Davis - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Tom.Davis@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve.Rose@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Steve Rose) Subject: K2 Report - Conclusion Date: 13 Jul 92 06:11:10 GMT Hello John! JB> has this Phoenix group contributed to UFOlogy since its alleged inception JB> in 1952? (Answer: Not a f***ing thing!) It's time people in this field JB> started demanding more documentation, just as the K2 report suggests. We JB> can start by demanding the NAMES of the characters who come up with JB> far-fetched tales such as this. (Actually, I wouldn't be too surprised to JB> see that this Phoenix group consisted of some of the same old B.S.'ers JB> from Nevada: Grace, Lear & Co.) Hear! Hear! ... -- Steve Rose - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Steve.Rose@f134.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Pete Porro) Subject: Re: UK CIRCLES Date: 8 Jul 92 18:41:40 GMT Alright! Finally a creative competition to see how hard or easy it is to make a circle. How would this be... The site and date are selected. The teams arrive in the morning to find an entry from an unknown team, which showed up overnight. Or is it a real one from aliens with a sense of ironic humor? 8*) I hope you post the results, it is interesting. -- Pete Porro - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Pete.Porro@f414.n154.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Re: Men In Black (mib's) Date: 15 Jul 92 02:19:01 GMT * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors" * Originally from Charles Mcgrew * Originally dated 07-13-92 12:23 From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Date: 13 Jul 92 14:15:31 GMT Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Message-ID: Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors jcitro3@odin.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes: Did anyone else out there catch the Sightings show on the Fox Network last night (10 July 92)? I know some of you are overseas, so here is a brief overview. .. yeah, it was a fairly short segment, which touched on (barely) the helicopters-with-no-markings stuff too. Apparently some of the latest UFO sightings have a common characteristc. Men in black have been threatening the witnesses!! .. actually, this sort of report is not new: From Brad Steiger's disorganized opus "Mysteries of Time & Space" Prenntice-Hall, 1974, ISBN 0-113-609040-0 (some of the book first appeared in "Saga" and "Male" magazine -- that should give you some context of the 'hardness' of this info, but it is grist for the mill). In September, 1953 Albert K. Bender had figured out parts of the origin of flying saucers, and sent his theory off to a "trusted friend". Soon thereafter three men dressed in black appeared, with his letter in hand. They told him 'the real story', and he became ill. Bender, apparently to "save mankind", kept the details to himself and gave up UFO research. Parts of this story were retold in Gray Barker's "They knew too much about flying saucers" (1956) [without the part of 'revealed truth'], and said that several other people (in Australia and New Zealand) had also been visited. Bender decided to tell all in his 1962 "Flying Saucers and the Three Men", which (Steiger says) was disappointing, in that it didn't tell much (that anyone wanted to know, anyway). Alien bases in Antartica (which Bender saw by Astral Projection), and so on. (I haven't been able to find this book.) However, others continued to stick to the MIB story, saying that Bender had in fact been silenced. "Bender was a changed man after the MIB visited him. It was as if he had been lobotomized." He suffered headaches that he said were caused by 'them'. Steiger says that "large numbers" of UFO-ologists have been harassed by *somebody*. A number of them (none named, unfortunately) had had photographs and negatives of UFO's confiscated by people claiming "government affiliation" (curious term, that) - "usually three, usually dressed in black". [BTW, if you ever get a visit from MIB (or indeed bona fide government agents, what they're asking you to do is a violation of search and seizure laws.] In an issue of "Saucer Scoop" (as usual, Steiger doesn't give an issue number) John Keel is quoted as saying that MIB are professional terrorists who go from place to place making sure that too much isn't found out about the UFO phenominon. Keel says that MIB victims appear to be subjected to "some sort of brainwashing technique that leaves him in a state of nausea, mental confusion, or even amnesia lasting for several days". Keel goes on to charge that local police/FBI/etc. must be in on it, because they refuse to investigate MIB. Col. George Freeman (Blue Book) was quoted by Steiger as being quoted by Keel (do you get the drift here of Mr. Steiger's "journalistic" zeal?) as saying that MIB cases were investigated by Blue Book, and that they weren't connected to the Air Force in any way. Steiger goes on to detail how four bogus USAF officers (Men-In-Blue, I guess :-) told witnesses in NJ that they "hadn't seen a thing" in 1967, and that they shouldn't tell anyone what they saw. .. Steiger goes on to give sketchy details of several other MIB visitations (though several are of encounters with a single man, not three), claiming to be NORAD officers, from the "UFO Research Institute", and (my favorite) "a government agency so secret he couldn't give its name". Also, telephone and mail harassment and messages from TV's and radios are mentioned. The MIB know where you're going, where you've been, and what you've been doing, and will tell you such things to convince you to be quiet. From there, Steiger goes off the deep end, claiming that MIB are to be found throughout history, as "Trickster", "Poltergeist" or "Sorcerer" figures. Well, I didn't say this was a good source, now did I? A comment on clothing: I've seen various things about the material the MIB supposedly wear -- its made of a plastic-like substance, a rubbery substance, and in Steiger's book the material is described by "Major Joseph Jenkins, Retired, Field Investigations Director for the UFO Research Institute of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania" in 1968 as "reminding him of the quilted uniforms (by Korean/Chinese troops) in the Korean war". Comments on appearance: I've seen all sorts of descriptions of MIB's physical appearance -- here's another that I haven't seen before: "Jim" (no date, no last name): "He was cadaverous... he looked like those WWII photographs of someone in a concentration camp. But he seemed alert enough." Charles -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG ******************************************************************************* Submissions infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com Administrative requests infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com FTP archive grind.isca.uiowa.edu:/info/paranet/infopara Permission to distribute Michael.Corbin@paranet.org Private mail to Paranet/Fidonet users firstname.lastname@paranet.org UUCP gateway {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom *********************End**of**the**InfoPara**Newsletter************************