Commonwealth Network

DESCRIPTIONS OF ROSWELL CRASH DEBRIS BY CIVILIAN AND MILITARY WITNESSES

The eyewitness descriptions are derived from the following sources 

using the following abbreviations:



F&B:  Stanton Friedman and Don Berliner, "Crash at Corona", 1991

B&M:  Charles Berlitz and William Moore, "The Roswell Incident," 1980.

R&S1:  Kevin Randle and Don Schmitt, "UFO Crash at Roswell"

R&S2:   Kevin Randle and Don Schmitt, "The Truth About the UFO Crash 

at Roswell," 1994

U.M.:  TV Program "Unsolved Mysteries," Sept. 1989

VIDEO1:  "UFOs, A Need to Know," 1991.

VIDEO2:  "UFO Secret:  The Roswell Crash," 1994.

FUFOR:  "The Roswell Events", ed. Fred Whiting, sponsored by Fund for 

UFO Research, 1991; quoted in the 1994 Air Force Report on Roswell.

USAF:  United States Air Force Report on Roswell, Sept. 1994.

KPFA:  KPFA radio broadcast, Berkeley, CA, 11/15/94, Ralph Steiner, 

producer.

SR#6:  Leonard Stringfield's UFO Crash/Retrievals Status Report VI, 

1991.

SKEP  July/August 1995 "Skeptical Inquirer"



To assist in comparing various eyewitness descriptions, the crash 

materials have been divided into several broad categories:



1.  Wood-like/plastic-like sticks or I-beams with "hieroglyphic" 

    writing.

2.  Tough, flexible, foil-like material with "memory" properties.

3.  Descriptions of other metal-like substances, particularly 

    unbendable metal.

4.  Tape-like material with "hieroglyphic" writing or "flower 

    patterns"

5.  Parchment or paper-like material, with "hieroglyphics"

6.  Threadlike or wire-like material.

7.  Size of the debris field, gouges in the ground, and quantities of 

    debris.

8.  Misc:  Gen. George Schulgen's memo of 10/28/47 describing possible 

    flying saucer materials and construction.  Dr. Robert Sarbacher's 

    comments on lightweight saucer crash materials and aliens;  

    Wilbert B. Smith's comments on handling and analyzing non-Roswell 

    flying saucer debris.  Jacques Vallee's comments on Roswell.

    



1.  WOOD-LIKE TAN STICKS OR I-BEAMS WITH "HIEROGLYPHICS"



LORETTA PROCTOR

(The Proctors were neighbors of Mac Brazel, the rancher who found the 

crash debris)



(F&B, interviewed July, 1990)  "The piece he brought looked like a 

kind of tan, light brown plastic.  It was very lightweight, like balsa 

wood.  It wasn't a large piece, maybe about four inches long, maybe 

just a little larger than a pencil.  We cut on it with a knife and 

would hold a match on it, and it wouldn't burn.  We knew it wasn't 

wood.  It was smooth like plastic, it didn't have a real sharp 

corners, kind of like a dowel stick.  Kind of dark tan.  It didn't 

have any grain, just smooth.  I hadn't seen anything like it."



(VIDEO1)  "In 1947, I think it was the first of July, he came over 

with something that looked like wood that he had found over on the 

ranch and wanted us to take a look.  ...The piece he brought up was 

about the size of a lead pencil and about 4 or 5 inches long.  It was 

kind of a tan color, kind of what we would say plastic now, but we 

didn't have plastic then.  You couldn't cut it, or burn it, or whittle 

it -- just very, very hard.  It was very light, it seemed to be."



(Pflock, FUFOR, affidavit 5/5/91):  "In July 1947, my neighbor William 

W. "Mac" Brazel came to my ranch and showed my husband and me a piece 

of material he said came from a large pile of debris on the property 

he managed.  The piece he brought was brown in color, similar to 

plastic.  He and my husband tried to cut and burn the object, but they 

weren't successful.  It was extremely light in weight.  I had never 

seen anything like it before."



(R&S1, 1989): " ...he did bring a little sliver of a wood looking 

stuff up, but you couldn't burn it or you couldn't cut it or anything.  

I guess it was just a sliver of it, about the size of a pencil and 

about three to four inches long.  I would say it was kind of brownish 

tan but you know that's been quite a long time.  It looked like 

plastic, of course there wasn't any plastic then, but that was kind of 

what it looked like.  [Q:  When he brought it up, did you try to cut 

it?]  A:  No, we didn't.  He did..."



WILLIAM BRAZEL JR.

(Mac Brazel's adult son in 1947; returned to ranch while father was 

incarcerated by military and found some scraps of debris left behind 

after military cleanup):

(F&B) "[There were also] some wooden-like particles like balsa wood in 

weight, but a bit darker in color and much harder....  It was pliable 

but wouldn't break.  Weighed nothing, but you couldn't scratch it with 

your fingernail.  All I had was a few small bits.  [There was no 

writing or markings on the pieces I had] but Dad did say one time that 

there were what he called "figures on some of the pieces he found.  He 

often referred to the petroglyphs the ancient Indians drew on the 

rocks around here as "figures," too, and I think that's what he meant 

to compare them with." 



"Some of it was like balsa wood: real light and kind of neutral color, 

more of a tan.  To the best of my memory, there wasn't any grain in 

it.  Couldn't break it-- it'd flex a little.  I couldn't whittle it 

with my pocket knife."



[Quoting his father, Mac Brazel, some time after 1947]  "[There was] 

some wood, and on some of that wood there was Japanese or Chinese 

figures."



(B&M)  "There were several different types of stuff.  ...it sure was 

light in weight.  It weighed almost nothing.  There was some wooden-

like particles I picked up.  These were like balsa wood in weight, but 

a bit darker in color and much harder.  You know the thing about wood 

is that the harder it gets, the heavier it is.  Mahogany, for example 

is quite heavy.  This stuff, on the other hand, weighed nothing, yet 

you couldn't scratch it with your fingernail like ordinary balsa, and 

you couldn't break it either.  It was pliable, but wouldn't break.  Of 

course, all I had was a few splinters.  It never occurred to me to try 

to burn it so I don't know if it would burn or not."



[Quoting his father] "Dad did say one time that there were what he 

called 'figures' on some of the pieces he found.  He often referred to 

the petroglyphs the ancient Indians drew on rocks around here as 

"figures" too, and I think that's what he meant to compare them with."



(R&S1) "There were some pieces of wood ... like balsa wood.  Real 

light, kind of a neutral color, kind of a tan.  And I couldn't break 

it.  [It would} flex a little.  The longest piece I found, about six 

inches would flex a little.  I couldn't break it and I couldn't 

whittle it with my pocketknife.  ...I did try to whittle on that piece 

of wood.  I didn't even get a little sliver off it."



[Quoting his father]  "'Well, there was this big bunch of stuff.  

There was some tin foil and some wood and on some of the wood it had 

Japanese or Chinese figures.'  Evidently it was some sort of 

inscription on part of this wood.  Now I found a little piece of it 

but there was no writing on it."



MAJOR JESSE MARCEL

(Chief intelligence officer and air crash investigator at Roswell AFB; 

he and Sheridan Cavitt were first military people at the Brazel debris 

field; Marcel is a key witness in Roswell case):

(F&B)  "A lot of it had a lot of little members [I-beams] with symbols 

that we had to call them hieroglyphics because I could not interpret 

them, they could not be read, they were just symbols, something that 

meant something and they were not all the same.  The members that this 

was painted on -- by the way, those symbols were pink and purple, 

lavender was actually what it was.  And so these little members could 

not be broken, could not be burned.  I even tried to burn that.  It 

would not burn."



(B&M)  "There was all kinds of stuff -- Small beams about three-

eighths or a half inch square with some sort of hieroglyphics on them 

that nobody could decipher.  These looked something like balsa wood, 

and were of about the same weight, except that they were not wood at 

all.  They were very hard, although flexible, and would not burn."



(R&S2)  [He also described I-beam-like structures.  Though unbendable 

or breakable, they did not look metallic.  According to Marcel] They 

were, as I recall, perhaps three-eighths of an inch by one quarter of 

an inch thick, and [came] in just about all sizes, none of them very 

long.  [The biggest was] I would say, about three or four feet long 

[and] weightless.  You couldn't even tell you had it in your hands.  

[He also noticed "indecipherable" two-color markings along the length 

of some of the I-beams]  I've never seen anything like that myself ... 

I don't know if they were ever deciphered or not ... Along the length 

of some of those [I-beam-like members], they had little markings.  

Two-color markings ... like Chinese writing.  Nothing you could make 

any sense out of.



(Pflock, Bob Pratt interview, 12/8/79)  [There were] "little members, 

small members, solid members that could not bend or break, but it 

didn't look like metal.  It looked more like wood.  They varied in 

size.  They were, as I can recall, perhaps three-eights of an inch by 

one-quarter of an inch thick, and just about all sizes.  None of them 

were very long. [The longest was] I would say about three feet long.  

[It was] weightless.  You couldn't even tell you had it in you hands--

just like you handle balsa wood.  ... It was a solid member, 

rectangular members, just like you get a square stick.  Varied 

lengths, and along the length of some of those they had little 

markings, two-color markings as I recall--like Chinese writing to me.  

Nothing you could make any sense out of.  ... All the solid members 

were that way [long and slender].



JESSE MARCEL JR

(examined debris when his father awoke family at 2 a.m.)

(F&B)  "Many of the remnants, including I-beam pieces that were 

present, had strange hieroglyphic typewriting symbols across the inner 

surfaces, pink and purple, except that I don't think there were any 

animal figures present as there are in true Egyptian hieroglyphics."



(B&M, interview April 1979)  "Imprinted along the edge of some of the 

beam remnants there were hieroglyphic-type characters.  I recently 

questioned my father about this, and he recalled seeing this 

characters also, and even described them as being a pink or purplish-

pink color.  Egyptian hieroglyphics would be a close visual 

description of the characters seen, except I don't think there were 

any animal figures present as there are in true Egyptian 

hieroglyphics." 



(U.M.):   "This writing [on a short piece of I-beam] could be 

described as like hieroglyphics, Egyptian-type hieroglyphics, but not 

really.  The symbols that were on the I-beams were more of a 

geometric-type configuration in various designs.  It had a violet-

purple type color and was actually an embossed part of the metal 

itself."



(Pflock) "There was a series of geometric patterns embossed on the 

inner surface of a fragment shaped like an "I" beam strut.  There were 

not recognizable animal figures such as seen in Egyptian hieroglyphics 

but the symbols resembled hieroglyphic type characters. . . . The 

color of the symbols was of a violet or purplish metallic hue. . . . I 

showed the above drawing to my mother who was also present and she 

concurs with the above description."  [The drawing is of an I-beam 

about 18" long with two fractured ends with about 20 symbols along the 

inner surface, about 1/2" high.]



(Plock, FUFOR, USAF, affidavit May 6, 1991)   "...there were fragments 

of what appeared to be I-beams.  On the inner surface of the I-beam, 

there appeared to be a type of writing.  This writing was a purple-

violet hue, and it had an embossed appearance.  The figures were 

composed of curved geometric shapes.  It had no resemblance to 

Russian, Japanese or any other foreign language.  It resembled 

hieroglyphics, but it had no animal-like characters." 



(R&S2)   [Jesse, Jr., described the writing as ] different geometric 

shapes, leaves, and circles.  [...the symbols were shiny purple and 

they were small, less than a fingernail wide.  There were many 

separate figures.]



(KPFA) "...There were structural members that I felt looked like I-

beams.  I guess the major difference there was that on the inner 

surface of one of these I-beams there looked like there was some 

writing of some kind.  The writing was a purplish-violet hue and was 

entirely within the member itself."  



[Although some of the material he handled could possibly be interpreted 

as fragments of balloon wreckage, Dr. Jesse Marcel Jr. says there are 

enough differences to raise questions about the Air Force explanation.]  

"Well, I talked to Lt. Kantor [sp?] and I told him that they did make a 

good case for this being parts of a weather, [that is] Mogul device, 

because there are some basic similarities there.  Then again, there are 

some things that are totally different too.  So I can't reconcile what I 

saw with what a Mogul device would have looked like.  As they said, the 

beams were balsa wood.  Well, I know what balsa wood looks like 'cause 

when I was a kid, I made stick models all the time.  And that sure 

didn't look like balsa wood, unless it was sprayed with aluminum paint, 

or something like that, to make it look like metal.  And you know it was 

extremely light.  I do recall one symbol for sure that was on the beam 

and that was like a truncated pyramid with a ball on top of it.  It was 

the only symbol I can know for sure was on this beam.  The rest of it, 

you know, was just various geometric designs."



1st Lt. ROBERT SHIRKEY

(Shirkey saw a B-29 being loaded with debris picked up by Marcel & 

Cavitt at the debris field.  The plane later took Marcel to Ft. Worth 

to meet Gen. Ramey.)

(Pflock, FUFOR, affidavit, 5/30/91)  "I also saw what was described by 

another witness as an I-beam and markings."



(Pflock) According to Shirkey, Marcel and another member of the group 

carried open cardboard boxes filled with debris, including ... an "I-

beam" about two feet long with peculiar markings on it.



CHARLES SCHMID

(Claims to have handled pieces of the debris on location in the 

desert)

(VIDEO1)  "There was some material that looked like wood,  which I 

don't know if it was or not.  It was broke, but it wasn't broke 

square, it was broke like a spear, off at an angle.  It was about an 

inch thick, or an inch square [??, garbled], let's put it that-a-way.  

It had some writing that looked like flowers on just one side.  It had 

pink petals, centered like a flower [??  partially garbled], and green 

mixed in, but you couldn't make no leaves out of it, or nothing like 

that.  But it was green in between these flowers on that one side of 

this piece of wood." 



WALT WHITMORE JR.

[Walt Whitmore Jr was the son of the owner of Roswell radio station 

KGFL.  Mac Brazel probably stayed at the Whitmore house the night of 

Marcel and Cavitt's visit to the debris field.]

(F&B)  "[There were] some small beams that appeared to be either wood 

or wood-like, had a sort of writing on it which looked like numbers 

which had either been added or multiplied [in columns]."



BESSIE BRAZEL SCHREIBER

(Mac Brazel's daughter, 14 years old at the time of the incident)

(Pflock, USAF, affidavit 9/22/93)  "Sticks, like kite sticks, were 

attached to some of the pieces [of foil-rubber like material] with a 

whitish tape." 



IRVING NEWTON

USAF (Ret), weather officer assigned to Fort Worth, where Roswell 

debris was sent.  He was called in to identify debris at a press 

conference called by Gen. Ramey.  Some witnesses, including Marcel and 

Ramey's aide Col. Thomas Dubose (later General), say the real debris 

was swapped with a weather balloon, and that Newton only saw the 

alleged swapped weather balloon material.)

(USAF, from affidavit, Attach. 30, 1994):  "...while I was examining 

the debris, Major Marcel was picking up pieces of the target sticks 

and trying to convince me that some notations on the sticks were alien 

writings.  There were figures on the sticks, lavender or pink in 

color, appeared to be weather faded markings, with no rhyme or reason 

(sic).  He did not convince me that these were alien writings."



(R&S2, 1989 interview) "The major [Newton didn't know Marcel] kept 

pointing to portions of the balloon to ask if I thought it would be 

found on a regular balloon."  [Newton said he had the impression the 

major was trying to save face and not appear to be a fool who couldn't 

tell the difference between a normal balloon and something from outer 

space.]



CPT. SHERIDAN CAVITT

(Cavitt was in the counter intelligence corp at Roswell, was on Jesse 

Marcel's staff, and was on Brazel's debris field with Marcel on July 

7, 1947 when they first went to investigate it, and returned the 

following day with assistant CICman, Louis Rickett.)

(USAF)  He stated ... that the material he recovered consisted of a 

reflective sort of material like aluminum foil, and some thin, bamboo-

like sticks.  He thought at the time, and continued to do so today, 

that what he found was a weather balloon...



ALBERT BRUCE COLLINS

(Interviewed shortly before his death in 1990 by Tim Cooper, Collins 

claimed to be a metallurgist who worked for the University of 

California, Berkeley and Occidental College for the Manhattan Project 

from 1942 to the late fifties, allegedly developing alloys used for 

electro-magnetic propagation and magnetic propulsion.  He further 

claims to have seen the Roswell craft in 1947 in Berkeley on a flatbed 

truck being backed into a warehouse and then worked on analyzing 

debris fragments.  None of this story has been verified.)



(SR#6)  [Collins heard rumors about] "unusual 'metal-like wood' being 

tested and results fed into a computer at Berkeley.



"RELUCTANT"

(Karl Pflock's mystery witness, who claims to have found balloon 

debris and still have it, but refuses to identify himself, show the 

debris to anyone, and whose debris descriptions don't match anybody 

elses.  Credibility???)



(Pflock)  "Some pieces [of foiled cloth material] were glued to balsa 

wood sticks, and some of them had glue on the cloth side with bits of 

balsa still stuck to it.  . . . None of the sticks was more than a 

foot or so long."





2.  FLEXIBLE, FOIL-LIKE MATERIAL, WITH MEMORY



WILLIAM BRAZEL JR.:

(F&B)  "One of the pieces looked like] something on the order of 

tinfoil, except that [it] wouldn't tear....  You could wrinkle it and 

lay it back down and it immediately resumed its original shape... 

quite pliable, but you couldn't crease or bend it like ordinary metal.  

Almost like a plastic, but definitely metallic.  Dad once said that 

the Army had once told him it was not anything made by us."



"...a little piece of -- it wasn't tinfoil, it wasn't lead foil -- a 

piece about the size of my finger.  ...The only reason I noticed the 

tinfoil (I'm gonna call it tinfoil), I picked this stuff up and put it 

in my chaps pocket.  Might be two or three days or a week before I 

took it out and put it in a cigar box.  I happened to notice when I 

put that piece of foil in that box, and the damn thing just started 

unfolding and just flattened out.  Then I got to playing with it.  I'd 

fold it, crease it, lay it down and it'd unfold.  It's kinda weird.  I 

couldn't tear it.  The color was in between tinfoil and lead foil, 

about the [thickness] of lead foil."



(B&M)  "There were several bits of metal-like substance, something on 

the order of tinfoil, except that this stuff wouldn't tear and was 

actually a bit darker in color than tinfoil -- more like lead foil, 

except very thin and extremely lightweight.  The odd thing about this 

foil was that you could wrinkle it and lay it back down and it 

immediately resumed its original shape.  It was quite pliable, yet you 

couldn't crease or bend it like ordinary metal.  It was almost more 

like a plastic of some sort except that it was definitely metallic in 

nature.  I don't know what it was, but I do know that Dad once said 

that the Army had told him that they had definitely established it 

wasn't not anything made by us."



(R&S1)  "The only reason I noticed the tin foil was that I picked this 

stuff up and put it in my chaps pocket.  Like I said, I had it in here 

two, three days, and when I took it out and put it in the box and I 

happened to notice that when I put that piece of foil in the box it 

started unfolding and flattened out.  Then I got to playing with it.  

I would fold it or crease it and lay it down and watch it.  It was 

kind of weird.  The piece I found was a jagged piece.  I couldn't tear 

it.  Hell, tin foil or lead foil is easy but I couldn't tear it.  I 

didn't take pliers or anything.  I just used my fingers.  I didn't try 

to cut it with my knife.  The color was consistent throught the pieces 

I found.  It was a dull color [and the same on both sides].  It was 

about the gauge of lead foil.  Thicker than tin foil.  It was pliable.  

Real pliable.  I would bend it over and crease it and if you 

straighten back up, there would be a crinkle in it.  Nothing.  It 

would flatten out and it was just as smooth as ever.  Not a crinkle or 

anything in it.  [It didn't make a sound.]  ...As best as I can 

remember, it was smooth.  I wasn't intrigued with any part of it until 

I discovered the foil and what it would do.  Then I got to looking at 

the rest of it."



WALT WHITMORE JR.

(F&B)  "[It was] very much like lead foil in appearance but could not 

be torn or cut at all.  Extremely light in weight."



(B&M) ...He did see some of the wreckage brought into town by the 

rancher.  His description was that it consisted mostly of a very thin 

but extremely tough metallic foil-like substance. ...He added that the 

largest piece of material that he saw was about four or five inches 

square, and that it was very much like lead foil in appearance but 

could not be torn or cut at all.  It was extremely light in weight.



SGT. ROBERT SMITH:

[Robert Smith was a member of the First Air Transport Unit, which 

operated Douglas C-54 Skymaster four-engine cargo planes out of the 

Roswell AAF.]



(F&B, interviewed 1991)  "All I saw was a little piece of material.  

You could crumple it up, let it come out.  You couldn't crease it.  

One of our people put it in his pocket.  The piece of debris I saw was 

two to three inches square.  It was jagged.  When you crumpled it up, 

it then laid back out.  And when it did, it kind of crackled, making a 

sound like cellophane.  It crackled when it was let out.  There were 

no creases.  ...The sergeant who had the piece of material said [it 

was like] the material in the crates."



(Pflock, FUFOR, affidavit 10/10/91)  "All I saw was a little piece of 

material.  The piece of debris I saw was two-to-three inches square.  

It was jagged.  When you crumpled it up, it then laid back out; and 

when it did, it kind of crackled, making a sound like cellophane, and 

it crackled when it was let out.  There were no creases.



(R&S1) [Smith and a couple of the other sergeants discussed the nature 

of the cargo as they were loading the aircraft.]  "We were talking 

about what was in the crates and so foth and he (another of the NCOs) 

said, 'oh do you remember the story about the UFO?  Or rather the 

flying saucer.'  That was what we called them back then.  We thought 

he was joking, but he let us feel a piece and stuck it back into his 

pocket.  Afterwards we got to talking a little bit more about it and 

he said he'd been out there helping clean this up.  He didn't think 

taking a little piece like that would matter.  It was just a little 

piece of metal or foil or whatever it was.  Just small enough to be 

slipped into a pocket.  I think he just picked it up for a souvenir.  

It was foil-like, but it was stiffer than foil that we have now.  In 

fact, being a sheet metal man, it kind of intrigued me, being that you 

could crumple it and it would flatten back out again without any 

wrinkles showing up in it.  Of course we didn't get to look at it too 

close because it was supposed to be top secret."



CHARLES SCHMID

(VIDEO1)  "There was some material that looked just like tinfoil, but 

quite strong.  You could writhe it up in your hand and it would just 

straighten out, no kinks, no nothing, it would just straighten out by 

itself."



JIM RAGSDALE

(Allegedly Ragsdale was at the main saucer crash site just before the 

military arrived)

(R&S2) [describing some of the pieces picked up at the site]  "You 

could take that stuff and wad it up and it would straighten itself 

out.  [One of the pieces]  You could bend it in any form, and it would 

stay.  It wouldn't straighten out."



FRANKIE DWYER ROWE

(Frankie Rowe, age 12 in 1947, is the daughter of Roswell fireman, Dan 

Dwyer, who allegedly was at the main saucer crash site with other 

members of the fire department and members of the Roswell police 

department.  The foil she saw was allegedly later shown at the Roswell 

fire station to some of the firemen and herself by a state trooper.)



(R&S2)  Frankie Rowe talked of foil that, when crumpled into a ball, 

would unfold itself with a fluid motion.



(R&S2, Paperback edition, affidavit 11/22/93):  "In early July 1947, I 

was in the fire house waiting for my father to take me home.  A State 

Trooper arrived and displayed a piece of metallic debris that he said 

he'd picked up on the crash site.  It was a dull gray and about the 

thickness of aluminum foil.  When wadded into a ball, it would unfold 

itself.  The fire fighters were unable to cut or burn it."



(VIDEO2)  [Referring to state trooper]  "And he pulled his hand out of 

his pocket and he had a piece of the material wadded up in his hand in 

a little tiny ball.  When he dropped it on the table it spread out 

like it was liquid or quicksilver, and there was not one wrinkle in 

that.  I do remember that we all got to touch it, we all got to pick 

it up.  You could bend it, it made no crinkle, no noise.  It was very 

shiny, very silvery color, maybe about a foot square.  I have no idea 

what happened to it."



(Pflock)  [As she waited, a state police officer came in and said he 

wanted to show the firemen something.]  "He took his hand out of his 

pocket and he dropped what he had in his fist on the table.  He said 

it was something he picked up out at the crash site.  It looked like 

quicksilver when it was on the table, but you could wad it up.  [It 

was] a little larger than . . . [his] hand.  It had jagged edges" [and 

it was a dull grayish-silver color.]  "You couldn't feel it in your 

hand.  It was so thin that it felt like holding a hair . . . It wasn't 

anything you'd ever seen before.  It flowed like quicksilver when you 

laid it on the table.  [The firemen and the trooper] tried to tear it, 

cut it and burn it.  It wadded up into nothing.  The state cop said 

he'd gotten away with just this one small piece, and he said he didn't 

know how long he'd be able to keep it, if the military found out."



HELEN DWYER CAHILL

(Older sister of Frankie Rowe.  She was married and not living in 

Roswell in 1947.)

(R&S2, Paperback edition, affidavit 11/22/93):  "My sister, Frankie, 

told me about her experiences sometime in the early 1960s.  Frankie 

told me about sitting around the table in 1947 and being threatened.  

My sister also mentioned seeing the material that 'ran like water.'"



M. SGT. LEWIS (BILL) RICKETT

[Bill Rickett was a Counter Intelligence Corps officer based in 

Roswell, part of Jesse Marcel's staff, and an assistant to CICman 

Sheridan Cavitt.  He had an opportunity to examine some of the 

wreckage recovered from the Foster (Mac Brazel's)Ranch.  He escorted 

Dr Lincoln LaPaz, a meteor expert from the New Mexico Institute of 

Meteoritics, on a tour of the crash site and the surrounding area in 

September, 1947, in an attempt to reconstruct the speed and trajectory 

of the crash object.]



(R&S1)  Rickett said the foil was dull, like the back side of aluminum 

foil, and because it didn't reflect the sun, it was hard to see.



(F&B)  "[The material] was very strong and very light.  You could bend 

it but couldn't crease it.  As far as I know, no one ever figured out 

what it was made of...."



"...LaPaz wanted to fly over the area, and this was arranged. He found 

one other spot where he felt this thing had touched down and then 

taken off again.  The sand at this spot had been turned into a glass-

like substance.  We collected a boxful of samples of this material.  

As I recall, there were some metal samples here, too, of that same 

sort of thin foil stuff.  LaPaz sent this box off somewhere for study; 

I don't know or recall where, but I never saw it again.  This place 

was some miles from the other one."



BESSIE BRAZEL SCHREIBER

(F&B)  "[The material resembled] a sort of aluminum-like foil.  

...[There was also] a piece of something made out of the same metal-

like foil that looked like a pipe sleeve.  About four inches across 

and equally long, with a flange on one end." 



(Pflock, FUFOR, USAF, from affidavit, 9/22/93):  "...The pieces were 

small, the largest I remember measuring about the same as the diameter 

of a basketball.  Most of it was a kind of double-sided material, 

foil-like on one side and rubber-like on the other.  Both sides were 

grayish-silver in color, the foil more silvery than the rubber. ...The 

foil-rubber material could not be torn like ordinary aluminum foil can 

be torn..."



LORRETA PROCTOR:

(Plock, FUFOR, from affidavit 5/5/91): " ...'Mac' [W. Brazel] said the 

other material on the property looked like aluminum foil.  It was very 

flexible and wouldn't crush or burn."



(VIDEO1)  "He said the stuff that looked kind of like aluminum foil, 

he said you'd crumple it up and then it would straighten out, it 

wouldn't stay creased, it would just open out.  But he couldn't get 

any of it off to bring up.  He said he couldn't cut it or anything."



(R&S1)  "He was telling us about more of the other material that was 

so lightweight and that was crinkled up and then would fold out."



MARIAN STRICKLAND

(friend and neighbor of Mac Brazel)

(VIDEO1)  "The time that he brought the sample of what he had picked 

up, he was at the corral.  My daughter and two sons and husband were 

at the corral, and they saw it.  My daughter says that it could be 

crumpled up and straighten right back out."





SALLY STRICKLAND TADOLINI

(daughter of Marian Strickland, age 9 in 1947)

(Pflock, FUFOR from affidavit 9/27/93):  "What Bill showed us was a 

piece of what I still think as fabric.  It was something like aluminum 

foil, something like satin, something like well-tanned leather in its 

toughness, yet was not precisely like any one of those materials.  

While I do not recall this with certainty, I think the fabric measured 

about four by eight to ten inches.  Its edges, where were smooth, were 

not exactly parallel, and its shape was roughly trapezoidal.  It was 

about the thickness of a very fine kidskin glove leather and a dull 

metallic grayish silver, one side slightly darker than the other.  I 

do not remember it having any design or embossing on it.  Bill passed 

it around, and we all felt it.  I did a lot of sewing, so the feel 

made a great impression on me.  It felt like no fabric I have touched 

before or since.  It was very silky or satiny, with the same texture 

on both sides.  Yet when I crumpled it in my hands, the feel was like 

that you notice when you crumple a leather glove in your hand.  When 

it was released, it sprang back into its original shape, quickly 

flattening out with no wrinkles.  I did this several times, as did the 

others.  I remember some of the others stretching it between their 

hands and "popping" it, but I do not think anyone tried to cut or tear 

it."



(R&S2)  Bill Brazel showed that small piece of foil to others.  ... 

Brazel showed her [Tadolini] the foil, and she has the impression that 

it was dull in color, maybe gray, and that it was a small piece.  

Brazel, according to her, balled it up in his hand and then opened his 

hand, letting it return to its original shape.  She thought it was 

stiff, like aluminum foil, but that it did not seem metallic.



MAJOR ELLIS BOLDRA

(Boldra, an engineer, allegedly found samples of the crash debris in a 

safe in the Roswell AFB engineering department in 1952.  Testimony is 

second hand from son and friends.)

(R&S2 description)  When crumpled. it [a thin metal sample] quickly 

returned to its original shape.



JESSE MARCEL JR.

(B&M)  "The material was foil-like stuff, very thin, metallic-like but 

not metal, and very tough."



(R&S2)  Marcel Jr. described the foil as resembling "lead foil."



(KPFA)  "Most of the debris consisted of metal foil.  It was kind of 

like a dull aluminum on each surface."



(Pflock, also FUFOR, affidavit, May 6, 1991) "Most of the debris 

looked like pieces of an aircraft airframe and its skin.  . . . [There 

was] a thick, foil-like metallic gray substance."



CHARLES B. MOORE

(On-scene Mogul Project Head Engineer.  Moore never saw the actual 

crash debris.)

(USAF description)  [The radar reflectors] were made up of aluminum 

"foil" or foil-backed paper, balsa wood beams that were coated in an 

"Elmer's-type glue to enhance their durability...



(B&M, interview 1980)  C.B. Moore's description of a Rawin target 

device, of which he had seen and handled many, was also important in 

that it strongly reinforced the belief that anyone finding such 

"flimsy foil and balsa-wood material" would have had great difficulty 

in confusing it with anything out of the ordinary.



W/O  IRVING NEWTON

(Newton was the weather officer called in to identify the crash debris 

at Gen. Ramey's press conference on July 8, 1947.  Several people, 

including Marcel and Ramey's chief of staff Gen. Thomas Dubose, say 

Newton never saw the real crash debris, which allegedly was swapped 

with a tattered weather balloon and Rawin foil radar target)

(B&M, questioning Newton in July 1979 Interview)

Q.  But wouldn't the people at Roswell have been able to identify a 

balloon on their own?

A.  They certainly should have.  It was a regular Rawin sonde.  They 

must have seen hundreds of them.

Q.  Can you describe the fabric?  Was it easy to tear?

A.  Certainly.  You would have to be careful not to tear it.  The 

metal involved was like an extremely thin Alcoa wrap.  It was very 

flimsy.



JASON KELLAHIN

(Kellahin was an Associated Press reporter in Albuquerque in 1947 and 

was ordered to Roswell to interview rancher Mac Brazel following the 

release of the Army Air Force press release about the capture of a 

flying disc.  On his way to Roswell, he claims to have taken a detour 

to Brazel's ranch, interviewed Brazel, and seen balloon debris.  For 

various reasons, including impossible time restraints, there is good 

reason to doubt that he ever made it there.)

(Pflock, affidavit 9/20/93)  "There was quite a lot of debris on the 

site -- pieces of silver colored fabric, perhaps aluminized cloth.  

Some of the pieces had sticks attached to them.  I thought they might 

be the remains of a high-altitude balloon package, but I did not see 

anything, pieces of rubber or the like, that looked like it could have 

been part of the balloon itself.  The way the material was 

distributed, it looked as though whatever it was from came apart as it 

moved along through the air.



"RELUCTANT"

(Pflock)  "Most of what I found was white, linen-like cloth with 

reflective tinfoil attached to one side.  . . . Most of the pieces 

were no larger than four or five inches on a side, although I found 

one or two about the size of a sheet of typing paper . . .One of the 

larger pieces of foiled cloth, measuring about 8 by 12 inches, had 

writing on the cloth side.  Someone had used a pencil to do some 

figuring, arithmetic.  There were no words, only numbers.  I did not 

see any writing or marking on any of the other debris.  I collected 

some of the foiled cloth material, including the piece with the 

writing on it, and a few of the sticks, filled a large, 9 by 12, 

envelope with it . . . I still have the material I collected on the 

ranch site in July 1947 . . . in a safe and secure place."  

 

[End Part 1 of 2]






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