Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 21:55:30 -0700 (MST) From: Peter Petrisko Subject: MY CONVERSATION WITH A MAN IN BLACK It began with an article on alt.conspiracy asking for true stories involving the so-called "Men in Black". An anonymous email suggesting I drop the matter soon followed. After I posted the contents of that email publicly, I found myself in a conversation with an alleged member of the "intelligence community" who, as time went on, slowly revealed the truth (as he sees it) about MiB and alien abductions. Here are all posts (both public & private), the further you read the more you'll see revealed. Subject: real Men in Black encounters From: Peter Petrisko Anyone here who has had encounters with the Men in Black, either gov't type agents or the more mysterious "alien/apparition" type MiB, would you please post a synopsis of the encounter? If there is a favorable/large response to this request it could be a precursor to proposing a MiB newsgroup. (Trying to determine if the experience is widespread enought to warrant it.) True stories only please. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- -- -- Subject: MY men in black encounter! From: Peter Petrisko After posting the article "real men in black encounters" I got the following (anonymous) email warning... "It might be best if you don't continue to post such items, Mr. Petrisko. There is no organization known as the 'Men in Black'. There is no need to pursue this any further." So there you go. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- -- -- Subject: Re: "real" Men in Black encounters From "Human Being" - Mr. Petrisko and others interested in so-called Men in Black; "Men in Black" accounts are fictions devised by earnest but weak minds. A quick review of your (Mr. Petrisko) many newsgroup postings reveals a telling passion for fanciful television shows, drug-addled journalists and writers, and mass-media science fiction in general. As such, it's appropriate but sad that you propose a MiB newsgroup during this season of hype for the mediocre Hollywood film. Perhaps these shows and said film are having an unfortunate effect on your personal belief system. Your request for "true stories only" will be thoroughly meaningless in this medium; people will tell all manner of stories under the aegis of true experience, and you'll have no means of filtering or validating. This, of course, would also be true of what you're reading now, but kindly refrain from understanding this message as proof of anything. It is not anything more than an admonition of your critical faculties and unfortunate enterprise. Obviously, you'll have to decide for yourself and behave according to the dictates of your own thoughts. Regarding the "warning" you received; your interpretation of it as such, as well as your appearant belief that you've now had a Real, Authentic MiB encounter is a good example of the danger of yourself to yourself. It is very easy to forge e-mail addresses; it is very easy to send untraceable, anonymous e-mail. Why didn't you consider that it may have been some goofball's prank? If your MiB existed, they would ignore you, believe me. They do not exist, and never did, except in the minds of persons who desparately need to believe for various reasons, mostly psychological in nature. May I respectfully refer you to Carl Sagan's book, "The Demon-Haunted World?" I believe this clear-minded book could do you a world of good. It's an enjoyable read, as well. The MiB, like so many aspects of UFO culture, taken on a life and "veracity" of their own, having nothing to do with authentic efforts to validate or invalidate UFO experiences. You might also find some humor and value in referencing an English punk rock band that existed in its primary form in the late 1970's, called The Stranglers. This group, unbeknownst to most current UFO enthusiasts (or victims of crass-but-useful Hollywood marketing) did much to develop the idea of a cadre of MIB, although in their mythology the MIB were alien themselves, here to facilitate the breeding of humans for alien *food,* not to indimidate self-styled witnesses of unidentified ariel phenonmenon. This was before the current epidemic of preposterous abduction accounts, for which there is an explanation you will never know. Give up, my friend, before you waste your time on a needless wild goose chase. Is that what you want? If you are gifted of higher critical functions, you will either quickly be frustrated by the lies, flames, and delusions you are about to be flooded with, or you will yourself be consumed by ignorance and false belief systems. Why not use that enthusiasm you have for imagination in a more creative, unwasteful manner? Best wishes in re-directing your energy, if you so choose. Please don't make the common error of attributing this message to "part of the cover-up," or any such nonsense. If there was a UFO cover-up, this message would hardly be a realistic means of contributing to it. I'm nothing more than someone in a position to save you from needless effort. Apologies for my own anonymity. I have my reasons, and am no threat to you. -HB -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- -- -- Subject: Re: Human Being's post/Men in Black From: Peter Petrisko I only use the vernacular "Men in Black" because if I said, "Anyone having encounters with members of the Black Ops Fed. Fraternal Order, please post." most wouldn't know what the heck I was talking about. As for my interest in "fanciful television shows" and "drug-addled journalists and writers", that has nothing to do with my belief systems only my interest in good writing. Strike two, eh? Now, on to the meat of the matter. Do you mean to say that every person who has every reported (or would report here) an encounter with the so-called MiB is either lying or hallucinated the episode? I find that hard to believe by the sheer volume alone. Do I think some are? Sure. Do I think the other, true encounters are with shadow gov't agents or somehow UFO related? Perhaps. Only time will tell. As for the email response I got to my first post, my "appearant belief that you've had a Real, Authentic MiB encounter" and why didn't I "consider that it may have been some goofball's prank?" I thought my short response at the end of the article posting it here showed that I did. Perhaps I was too subtle. But then we both know that that email isn't as anonymous as it once was. If at first you don't succeed, eh? Which brings me to my final point. Why ARE you so concerned? I mean, it isn't just anyone who will take the time to search for and read through my ng posts so as to get an idea, albeit wrong, of what I do and how I think. Do you also post anonymously to such possible time-wasters as holocaust revisionists or moon-landing hoax believers? You so kindly said, "Give up, my friend, before you waste your time on a needless wild goose chase. Is that what you want?" Apparently, YES. Thats what I want. Perhaps its not the MiB at all I'm interested in, perhaps its the goose chase itself that fascinates me. You never know. One final question, regarding abduction accounts, "for which there is an explanation you will never know." (your words to me) Please, do tell. Is this your theory or are you claiming some sort of "insider" knowlege? Personally, I think its the Men in Black wearing grey rubber masks, but then I'm a fanciful danger to myself so what do I know. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- -- -- Subject: Re: Human Being's post/Men in Black From "Human Being" - Peter Petrisko wrote: >I only use the vernacular "Men in Black" because if I said, "Anyone > having encounters with members of the Black Ops Fed. Fraternal Order, > please post." most wouldn't know what the heck I was talking about. That is because such a post would be pure drivel. You pretend to know things that you simply don't. There is no such thing as "Black Ops. Fed. Fraternal Order," at least not with such a silly name or purpose. If you wish to reassert that there is, perhaps you could kindly offer evidence or pointers to what has convinced you that such a nefarious group exists. You'll find countless flaws in any such evidence as such, negating the veracity of the claim. If you don't find these flaws, you aren't being fully balanced in your consideration. >As for my interest in "fanciful television shows" and "drug-addled > journalists and writers", that has nothing to do with my belief >systems only my interest in good writing. Strike two, eh? No, no strike at all, although your refutation is well-taken. That was a slight cheap shot on my part. I enjoy "X-Files" and the likes of W.S. Burroughs myself, for example. What I meant in my reference was that you are an impressionable person with a good imagination; nothing wrong with that, but these traits unchecked can lead to highly faulty belief systems. I apologize for any condescending tone in my inference; that' my own arrogance, however informed. >Now, on to the meat of the matter. Do you mean to say that every > person who has every reported (or would report here) an encounter >with the so-called MiB is either lying or hallucinated the episode? >I find that hard to believe by the sheer volume alone. Well, you're a bit harsh, but if I must answer, yes, I do mean to say that since MiB do not exist, there must be alternative explanations for the encounters. I know that many persons, like alien abductees, are firmly convinced of the reality of their encounters, which leave frequently very unpleasant and traumatic memories, but even with respect to such "victims," I assert once more that only alternative explanations will do. I wouldn't be so insensitive as to accuse every witness of lying, although like you, understand that certainly some folks, for varying reasons, do fabricate. Sheer volume is never evidence of anything. Millions of persons throughout history have believed that the world was flat, as you know. Can 100 million flat-Earthers be wrong? Certainly. Did they believe they had solid evidence? In many cases, yes. Myths take on a life of their own which is contagious with no limit on the number of believers inducted into the myth-continuum. >I think the other, true encounters are with shadow gov't agents or >somehow UFO related? Perhaps. Only time will tell. No, pal. Time will not tell. Not while you and I live. I won't deny that there are governmental and paragovernmental bodies that take a great interest in both watching and manipulating the UFO phenomenon, but you must understand that most of this activity is of a social engineering and political nature, and has precious little to do with authentically mysterious sightings and enconters. . >As for the email response I got to my first post, my "appearant > belief that you've had a Real, Authentic MiB encounter" and why >didn't I"consider that it may have been some goofball's prank?" I >thought my short response at the end of the article posting it here >showed that I did. Your use of (sic) is technically incorrect, as it implies that you *did not* appear to believe you'd had and authentic encounter. It did appear that with your words, "so there you go," you believed that you'd had a communication from someone who knew something about your MiB. You weren't subtle, Peter, you were unclear. No offense intended, but you're in no position to challenge my understanding. >Why ARE you so concerned? Because we like you, and don't wish to see you make a fool of yourself. Good question. >I mean, it isn't just anyone who will take the time to search for and >read through my ng posts so as to get an idea, albeit wrong, of what >I do and how I think. Why wouldn't it be just anyone? Just anyone can do it these days. You should also consider, for the sake of analysis, that I might be just anyone, perhaps even one of the pranksters I warned you about. I'd hate to undercut my own message with that qualifier, but in fairness, you have a right to question my own veracity. There's more to be gleaned regarding any individual than simply newsgroup postings. I felt that offering this as one means by which you've been observed would be less threatening-seeming than others. Again, no threat to you is being posed, whatsoever, only a friendly admonition, although it seems you declined to accept the friendliness. I'm not so far off-base as to how you think. Besides this MiB/newsgroup enterprise, I don't believe I referred to what you do. That is your private business. >Do you also post anonymously to such possible time-wasters as >holocaust revisionists or moon-landing hoax believers? Another good question. The answer is no. There isn't too much concern about Holocaust revisionism spreading to the masses, although I encourage people to resist and speak up about the matter. The Skeptic Society has offered outstanding rebuttals. I'm pleased you consider these elements "time-wasters." That's healthy. The moon and Mars-landing hoax believers are another matter. Perhaps you're aware that NASA now specifically addresses these matters; they're doing a fine job of defending themselves articulately and respectfully. They don't need any help. Some people simply need to drag down every achievement associated with "The System," as we've recently seen with the denials that the Soujourner craft is actually on Mars. As I mentioned previously, I'm in a position to know that the MiB as commonly described simply never existed, and are partly based on misunderstandings and the phenomenon of self-perpetuating and self-validating social myths. I apologize for being so oblique, but feel it's better than nothing. >You so kindly said, "Give up, my friend, before you waste your time >on a needless wild goose chase. Is that what you want?" Apparently, >YES. Thats what I want. Then by all means, may you find your wild goose. I won't bother you any more. > Perhaps its not the MiB at all I'm interested in, perhaps its the goose > chase itself that fascinates me. You never know. Well said. Enjoy the chase. It might be good for you in the big picture. >One final question, regarding abduction accounts, "for which there is > an explanation you will never know." (your words to me) Please, do tell. No. See your own assertion about masks, below. Run with that. >Is this your theory or are you claiming some sort of "insider" knowlege? Both. The "theory" is informed, however, and is hardly mine to claim credit for. "Insider" is a bit pretentious for my taste, although ultimately true; being informed in these matters is something not many really take pride in, though. It's no fun. We aren't The Enemy. >Personally, I think its the Men in Black wearing grey rubber masks, >but then I'm a fanciful danger to myself so what do I know. You're no idiot, and I didn't mean to imply so. I like your theory about the grey masks. Now you're onto something. I'd encourage you to elaborate, at least to yourself if not others, on how you arrived at this theory, although one last time, I'd like to offer that pursuing MiB even in this regard will get you tangled in needless knots. Fare well, - HB -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- -- -- Subject: mo' Men in Black email pleas From: Peter Petrisko Again I received E-MAIL regarding my posting about so-called 'Men in Black'. From a second source, or the same person with a more frantic tone? It read..... "Please desist spreading illogical & counterproductive rumors. There has never been any Men in Black. These stories are the work of irrational fanatics. You can only further destabilize the situation by further discussion. Stop." In the mean time, anyone else have an opinion on all this? -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- -- -- Subject: Re: mo' Men in Black email pleas From: KARL MAMER Take his advice. Drop the matter. I know from personal experience. Like you, I went toe-to-toe with the Men in Black once. Guess who won? Not me. They fucked up my love life. Totally. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- -- -- Subject: Human B's reply/my last MiB post From: Peter Petrisko RE: 'Men In Black', and Human Being's followup to my last post (day before yesterday). As he said "farewell" I will address things specifically, with general observations, for the audience at large. If H.B. is still watching, feel free to follow up. First, HUMAN BEING himself. He is an enigma wrapped in a mystery stuffed in a pita pocket. IMO, he may have some limited first hand (or perhaps second hand) knowledge of the alleged MiB experience but is definitely well read on that, and related, subject matter. That, when combined with a certain amount of innuendo, veiled specifics, and overt generalizations can make someone appear quite informed. Whether they truly are or aren't is another matter entirely. He reminds me of an old friend I recently got reaquainted with who will only believe what he can see, hear, touch, smell or taste. Even then, w/o outside verification, it could still all be in his head only. He spoke of my "Black Ops" line as pure drivel. At face value, perhaps. The point being a few names for "shadow gov't" agents have been bandied about, and I could have used any one of them. Some may be close to actual org. names, even. But by using "Men in Black" most people will immediately know what I am asking about. Even if the term "Men in Black" is a misnomer. That was the point of the "Black Ops" paragraph. Lets look at a few quotes. "Sheer volume is never evidence of anything. Millions... believed the world was flat." That was a belief, a theory backed by faulty scientific evidence. It is also a wash out as an analogy for one reason. No one went to the "edge" of the earth and looked over to find the world was flat. I'm not saying the MiB exist because so many people believe they do, I'm saying the experiences of so many people with MiB (whomever they are, whatever their purpose) is evidence, however subjective, of SOMETHING occuring. HB later said, "I won't deny that there are governmental and paragovernmental bodies that take a great interest in both watching AND MANIPULATING the UFO phenomenon." (emphasis mine) Thank you. But what would you add? That agents of these bodies just don't do any field work? That they do, but don't dress in black? HB later stated, "I'm in a position to know that the MiB as commonly described simply never existed." I know he won't answer this, so i'll ask rhetorically. "Will you describe the so-called MiB as they do exist?" In my original, I never asked for MiB encounters that only fit the commonly described scenario(s). Second to last, a few thoughts on why Human Being took it upon himself to try to stifle any dialog on MiB encounters. For sake of argument, lets assume he isn't just a prankster out trolling. When asked why he didn't try to end other "time-wasting" topics, he said, "There isn't much concern about Holocaust revisionism (the ex. I gave) spreading to the masses." Why would anyone be concerned about something that allegedly doesn't even exist (i.e., MiB) being discussed by 'the masses'? Is H.B. just a good samaritan trying to help everyone save a little time? He also added, "Because we like you, and don't wish to see you make a fool of yourself." Maybe it isn't everyone he wants to help save time for, just me.Must be because I'm such a charming, genial sort of chap. But he then goes on, "I felt that offering this (reading my ng posts & summarizing) as one means by which you've been observed would be less threatening seeming than others." Attempted mindf**k, or something deeper? I wouldn't mind if he sent email detailing the name of the last person I had sex with or how much change I have in my pocket right now. It would go a long way towards proving his statements, and the veracity of his comments, one way or the other, eh? In conclusion, H.B.'s posts & followups only added more questions to a subject already fraught with disinformation, veiled observations, and misinterpreted experiences. Just once I'd like someone who claims to know the real story to just tell that story. Without couching it in doublespeak or vague references. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- -- -- Subject: MiB; Final Communique From: Human Being Peter P. and other concerned parties; Understand that we did not mean to stifle or kill your discussion, we meant to save your time and energy which might have been better funnelled into research of actual activities, governmental or otherwise. Any overt attempts by a governmental body or agent to censor discussion of any topic on Usenet groups would not only be laughable, but clearly un-American and thoroughly ineffective. We did not deny that "black ops" exist, simply the one with the elaborate title that you mentioned in one of your responses. We do have respect for your own intelligence and perspicacity. Understand that the word "intelligence" is taken very seriously in all its meanings by the Intelligence community; if censoring, intimidating agents were sent out on a comprehensive mission, it's a sure thing that unless under cover, they'd be wearing fairly predictable, traditional suit-and-tie garb. Some suits would inevitably be dominantly black, but not all. If such a group meant to be operate with any degree of stealth, they would find a way, and would never resort to an obvious uniform, unless said uniform were a cover or diversion. There are currently no special-ops groups required to wear the black suit-and-tie, white shirt uniform as typically described in MiB accounts. Suits are required dress in many agencies, but not within such specific parameters as many assume. (We understand that you, Peter, have an expanded concept of MiB, and that these points might seem very obvious to you. Others are much less critical in their enthusiasm for this mythology, however.) It's unfortunate that our brief communications derailed into semantic nitpicking and circular rhetoric. The previous paragraph is almost embarrassing: A clarifying of matters of dress. We simply meant to poke one more tiny hole in the veil separating "what if?" from "definately," and as persons involved in observing the social development of the UFO phenomenon, chose to assert ourselves in response to your original post. Your timing matched ours merely by coincidence. We were of course interested in your response to our assertion, but were not tracking you, Peter, specifically, prior to your solicitation of accounts. Nor are we now, beyond reading this very pubic newsgroup. We apologize for the potentially intimidating inferences which may have made it seem we don't respect your privacy. We do and we will. You made the good point that you were perhaps as interested in "the chase" as the catch. We were impressed, as this parallells the concept of rewards as assessed in our own lines of work. This is why we said we'd terminate our participation in your forum; if all you want is to have a good time looking for ghosts, far be it from us to spoil your party. We still think you'd be better off looking for what sense you can make of the UFO phenomenon without being sidetracked into the absurd. Good luck to Peter and any other seekers of truth. All we say in parting is that you can't really expect the facts to be "out there" if they've been obfuscated and hidden well beyond your means. You can try, but there are more powerful, resourceful bodies than what you can come up with; a fact of life. We leaked one little truth with the understanding that it might have been received as a disappointment or a hoax. One last time: MiB as popularly understood have never existed, and do not now. You are of course free to believe or disbelieve this communication. Please understand that we were *expected* to make this point in this intentionally oblique manner, and that this is part of a larger program to slowly unpeel the big onion. We think it's evident that concerned persons already know this peeling is taking place. Onions opened without caution do tend to yeild tears, after all. Finally, we'll offer a few more certain truths that should by now be obvious to the truly critical: 1) The famous "Alien Autopsy" footage is entirely a fabrication. 2) Hypno-regressive therapy is not trustworthy in "uncovering repressed memories" of "abduction experiences." If it were, something other than the elaborately construed paradigm of abduction/sexual examination/lost time, etc. would be manifest; something which will *not* become manifest, something which we, in a previous post, encouraged you to think about. You may disregard the integrity of Budd Hopkins and John Mack. 3) The "Majestic 12" document is a fabrication. No "Majestic" organization exists, nor has one ever existed. 4) No extraterrestrial craft ever crashed in or near Roswell, New Mexico. Unfortunately, we have done a very poor job of being forthright and clear on this matter, only serving to fuel believer's convictions. With apologies, we will not elaborate. Plenty in the amateur field have done good work to prove these revelations, and hardly need us to support them. That's all, folks! Sincerely, -HB -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- -- -- Subject: MiB & Grays: Archetypes or Reality? From: Peter Petrisko Throughout history both "men in black" and "magical fairy people" have been recurring archetypal figures, the former representing darkness or evil while the latter offered light and hope. Is it just coincidence when present-day people speak of MiB encounters, they use descriptions like "sinister" and "exuding evil"? I think not. However, are these descriptions the result of actual recalled feelings or the fact that after tapping into the collective unconscious, and thus recalling the historical archetype, these dormant associative feelings are brought to the fore? That, when combined with a mass media perpetuated set of parameters defining MiB, makes for a powerful influence indeed. Additionally, an everchanging (or perhaps ever-evolving is a better term) experience centering around "magical fairy people" has brought another archetype into the present. In the days of yore, these lil' folk wielded "magic wands" and spoke in magical tongues. In this present day of advancing technology and human diversity, where every corner of a once vast world has been studied and compartmentalized, we look skyward for new mysteries. And we take our archetypal imagery with us. No longer believing in true magic, we see advanced technology as a bit magical. No longer finding comfort in the hidden corners of our ever-shrinking world, the archetype once found there has taken on a new visage. It is no longer inner-worldly, it is otherworldly. However, it still possesses its' "magic wand" and speaks in a magical tongue we call telepathy. And experiences with these "beings" often result in ultimately positive and hopeful feelings. Sadly, there are those who would use our own collective unconscious against us. Remember, it is their archetypal imagery too. Yes, hypnoregressive therapy may be untrustworthy. Especially when up against planted "false memories" that nicely dovetail with timeless archetypes. It makes it so easy to believe, because we want to believe. It works on so many levels it is incredible. The reason we cannot get to the truth is two-fold. One is, as stated previously, there are those with more resources who can easily circumvent the truthseekers. The other reason is that there may very well be more than one truth, or more than one variation on (or element of) the truth. Archetypes themselves are based on an original truth. In the case of MiB, more than one person or group may be using that archetype to create a "new truth" in action. With Grays, its a "chicken or the egg" dilemma. Is the archetype based on a race which has visited for eons? Or is the archetype being used to create a modern mythology behind which "the powers that be" can hide, all the while manipulating us. (My "the Grays are just Men in Black wearing grey rubber masks" comment). Where the manipulation with that archetypal imagery ends and the truth (or the true experience) begins is the big question. Many little answers, revealed slowly (like an onion being peeled), must be connected to complete the response to a big question. ... just a few thoughts off the top of my head to summarize and conclude my part of the MiB discussion. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Just before posting my last article (above), I received the following email. As the fake "return address", time sent, wording, & handle all differ from the first two emails & HB's posts (which, BTW, were similar to each other) I have the tendency to think this one is a hoax. Therefore, it was not posted publicly but I include it here for the sake of completeness. " Mr. Peter Petrisko, It would not be in your best interest to begin a newsgroup such as u propose. Such agencies DO NOT EXIST. You are merely making an attempt to fuel the paranoia of conspiracy theories. Please discontinue requests for information regarding "covert" agencies in the US. You may respond to the statement contained herein via alt.law-enforcement.interpol this email MAY NOT BE RESPONDED TO! -The Silent Agent **************** * Classified * **************** " ------------------------------------------------------------------------